(BLEACH) 5-B Aizen Downgrade

[TataHakai]

That has nothing to do with Aizen though

Aizen never harmed Yhwach and when Yhwach actually attacked him in the final battle (Aizen concealing himself as Renji/Ichigo) Yhwach was tearing his body apart

There's only a single feat in the entire arc of Aizen not being hurt by Yhwach and it was when Yhwach wasn't even attempting to hurt Aizen

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Tata

1. Aizen couldn't destroy the chair because the chair and seals on his body was made to regulate the flow of his energy, it's contained around him.

2. Yeah dude chair > aizen lol. Why does his chair matter like at all? do you know what it's made of or any details about it?

3. What in the world? the statement only said Kenpachi has the best fighting prowess which makes snese since he's the Kenpachi lol. It has nothing to do with him being 5-B.

 

[TataHakai]

@Tata
1. Aizen couldn't destroy the chair because the chair and seals on his body was made to regulate the flow of his energy, it's contained around him.

2. Yeah dude chair > aizen lol.

3. What in the world? the statement only said Kenpachi has the best fighting prowess which makes snese since he's the Kenpachi lol. It has nothing to do with him being 5-B.

1. Aizen literally said that's not what it does, it doesn't surpress his reiatsu, it merely keeps his reiatsu close to him, he even complimented the chair for being able to withstand his power How does reducing the range of his reiatsu affect the damage he can inflict on the chair he's literally sitting on? It doesn't

2. Apparently so

3. No it wasn't, it was Combat strength not fighting prowess

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

• Cough*

Was this addressed even by TFO?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

> Second, all of this about him "no longer holding back" is not stated or implied at all. If i'm wrong, please post evidence but I doubt I am. You're just making more assumptions and baseless assertations.
https://**********.com/manga/Bleach/0677-003.png

https://**********.com/manga/Bleach/0677-004.png

https://**********.com/manga/Bleach/0677-005.png

This can be closed now.

Against Ichigo. That was never called into question, lol.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

1. He literally states that the seals restraint his energy to only around him? he literally can't do anything to the chair himself. The chair tanking hado 90 proves it's incredibly durable. Mayuri even explains how his seals work and it's shown he adjusted it to be even stronger when Aizen tried to shoot down the palace.

2. The chair point is worthless unless you want to really push the infinity chair meme or whatever.

3. that means he's the best fighter, again are you aware what Kenpachi means or stands for? it means they're the most fearsome Shinigami around and a master of combat.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Dude this the exact argument you were giving on your previous Downgrade thread for Yhwach, Aizen, and Ichigo months ago. You're now trying to claim Aizen being able to casually counter a attack from a Mimihagi Absorbed Yhwach is only 6-B+ because Aizen one shot it which doesn't make sense considering not even Kenpachi, Toshiro and Byakuya all who are also 6-B, couldn't do anything.

Will respond to this.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Against Ichigo. That was never called into question, lol.

Yhwach is no longer holding back from this point forward. Your argument that Yhwach is holding back against Aizen is null.

 

[M11UTD]

I like how everyone ignoring the fact that Aizen can just reiatsu crushes an attack from Mimihagi absorbed Yhwach, which puts him above both. Mimihagi is already planetary and Yhwach superior to him.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

@Sigurd Snake in The Eye How dare you question the power of the great Chair-sama after all of this time.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Against Ichigo. That was never called into question, lol.

Yhwach is no longer holding back from this point forward. Your argument that Yhwach is holding back against Aizen is null.
Correction, being on Guard =/= Going all out. And clearly Yhwach was referencing his fight with Ichigo.

Seriously, your argument is:

"Yhwach said he had to always be on guard against Ichigo, so now that he's standing infront of Aizen in SS after Beating Ichigo, he's using 5-B AP against someone who isn't hostile towards him, just to break a chair."

No, dude. Aizen doesn't scale just because Yhwach is weary of another character, lol. This argument of yours falls to pieces when you realize Yhwach simply meant heaving Almighty Activated, which is why he let his guard down anyways against Aizen.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Obviously no one can do jack to Yhwach while he's using The Almighty. Was Aizen suppose to like fist fight him or something? The whole point was to act as bait.

Still you haven't proven this attack is the equivalent in power as if Yhwach prior to all of his upgrades, and amps from absorption. His tier isn't varied it's just 5-B with no indication his attack had another level of power. At best he'd scale below Yhwach and he'd still be tier 5. Not like millions of times weaker.

> Let his guard down against Aizen

What? where was this stated at all?

 

[Naeblis495]

aizen was able to not get blizted by yhwach , tank some of his attacks unscratched and destroy some of yhwach's attacks

imo that is all there need to be for him to scale. And while i think Aizen is not on the same level of yhwach or ichigo, he is not so immensely inferior he need to be downgraded .

 

[AstralKing7]

Speed has nothing to do with ap

If he could tank some of his attacks but get pushed back or hurt by others that means there is obviously something wrong with scaling. Aizen was literally hurt lol. You can't scale to someone if u literally get your arm sliced off and a arm in your chest


That just supports that it's an outlier for Aizen or most likely TFO suggested that the attacks he used against Aizen weren't 6B even if they were Aizen got stomped by Yhwach

So he isn't comparable to Ichigo nor Yhwach

 

[HST_Master]

Speed has nothing to do with ap

If he could tank some of his attacks but get pushed back or hurt by others that means there is obviously something wrong with scaling. Aizen was literally hurt lol. You can't scale to someone if u literally get your arm sliced off and a arm in your chest


That just supports that it's an outlier for Aizen or most likely TFO suggested that the attacks he used against Aizen weren't 6B even if they were Aizen got stomped by Yhwach

So he isn't comparable to Ichigo nor Yhwach

TFO's argument relies on assuming that Yhwach is adjusting his attacks to 6-B AP every time Aizen is involved, which is ludicrous given you're gonna tell me he specifically made his wave of goop monsters weak enough that Aizen could handle them casually, when they were meant to wipe the Soul Reapers out? Or that another 6-B, Byakuya couldn't do any damage to them? Or that Aizen is capable of dealing with some of his attacks and people repeatedly saying that Yhwach is definitely stronger, Aizen is only comparable?

Outside of just claiming that the attacks are 6-B, there hasn't been much proof that they are. Which is again, the exact same thread as the previous only that he's doing them one at a time this time instead of all 3.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Aizen should scale to Yhwach not Ichigo.

also Yhwach being casual with Aizen doesn't matter, it's still 5-B, all it means is that the 5-B in itself is on the lower end that's normally displayed, otherwise we have to adjust every single character's tier for every single feat they make that's not scaling to there best, this casual and fullpower thing only applies when there's huge amount of proof and context to tell us these two feats are intended to be massively different in power.

so disagree with dwongrade but agree that Aizen should not scale to Ichigo.

 

[Naeblis495]

i can agree on that , aizen's justification for scaling being switched from ichigo to yhwach seems good .

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Shadow

That would only be the case if Yhwach hadn't shown Casual 6-B AP. This is literally being ignored.

Nobody can prove that attack was 5-B. Saying it is is an arbitrary assertion. It's Baseless. Casual Yhwach ranges from 6-B to 5-B.

What says that attack is on the higher end? Nobody has actually answered this question.

The only thing Imade keeps trying to push is Yhwach stating he needs to be on gaurd against Ichigo and the Manga literally shows him doing that by activating Almighty. This does not apply to Aizen.

So what other proof is there?

@HST Master

PTS Aizen is still stronger than the captains. Not onlt this but I'm sure Kenpachi was still incapacitated during the Mimihagi stuff and Toshiro wasn't even in his Matured Bankai. All that argument proves is that Aizen is still Unquantifiably above 6-B as he already was.

You guys are making all kinds of fallacious assertions here. AIZEN HAS NO STATEMENTS OR FEATS ACTUALLY SCALING HIM TO 5-B YHWACH.

I don't see wtf is so hard about this, there is factually no proof and this resistance is even more absurd because you guys AGREE that yes, Yhwach has shown an AP Range of Casually 6-B against TS Ichigo to Casual 5-B, yet you assert Yhwach's casual attack against Aizen, who was seated and excessively sealed and had yet to actually show hostility towards him was 5-B without anything concrete to back that notion.

What's more, ONE OF AIZEN'S STRONGEST ATTACKS DID NOTHING TO THE CHAIR, so his Hado 90 feat cancels out his tanking Yhwach's attack feat. Come on guys....

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

What you cant seem to understand is that "holding back" is not equal to casual.

Casual is something done without needing to exert yourself or lower yourself. It's your base. Holding back is explicitly below casual.

A casual SK Yhwach ability was when he moved the Wandenreich. That's casual. Him fighting a 6-B Ichigo when he's holding back is not casual, he's lowering his power explicitly.

Once you understand that you'll see why your argument has never been agreed nor accepted in the past 3 times you've attempted to downgrade Aizen.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

What you cant seem to understand is that "holding back" is not equal to casual.
Casual is something done without needing to exert yourself or lower yourself. It's your base. Holding back is explicitly below casual.

A casual SK Yhwach ability was when he moved the Wandenreich. That's casual. Him fighting a 6-B Ichigo when he's holding back is not casual, he's lowering his power explicitly.

Once you understand that you'll see why your argument has never been agreed nor accepted in the past 3 times you've attempted to downgrade Aizen.

And until you understand that variable AP can be casual at any level, your opinion is void.

Lmao, dude, AP isn't, nor Energy for that matter, is always at × level. Yhwach nor any Bleach Character is always at their highest tier casually. But if you want to spin the narrative that Yhwach and Ichigo are always at 5-B unless deliberately holding back, be my guest. Logic and reasoning is wasted on you lot. You may feel it's the opposite, but whatever.

A mod can close this.

 

[HST_Master]

Dude you keep saying Yhwach was "showing casual 6-B AP" for every interaction with Aizen other than taking your word for it, which again makes no sense.

Yes because he's able to not only wipe out the Mimihagi monsters with a Kurohitsugi, not because it's somehow just a higher end of 6-B because Aizen delt with it, and he blew away the dome that Yhwach had put around the Seireitei. And no, Kenpachi had been healed by Jushiro, which is well before Yhwach absorbing Mimihagi. Along with Byakuya trying to attack them but doing didly. Probably the only one who could be argued to have been being incapacitated was Toshiro, in which that's 2 6-Bs that were considered fodder to the mimihagi monsters.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3144641?useskin=oasis

And no we don't. It was decided TS Ichigo would simply scale above his Dangai Self whos still scales to Kenpachi after it was shown Almighty Yhwach > Mimihagi who is 5-B. Outside of being outdated reasoning wise, Ichigo's scaling had been dealt with.

SK Yhwach + Ichigo, Jugram and Gerards powers >>> Mimihagi Absorbed Yhwach. Between the two moments Aizen's had, Yhwach blatantly became much stronger.

And the chair? Mayuri straight up says he reinforces Aizen's Restraints when he tried to shoot down the Palace.

https://*****************/read-online/Bleach-chapter-623-page-13.html

He lines it along Aizen's body to whatever degree he wants.

 

[TataHakai]

The chair nor the restraints have an effect on Aizen's power

Merely range of his attacks

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Does Aizen have other feats against Yhwach,except for chair feat?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

All I see is the throwing around of baseless assumptions and Unquantifiable assertions to try and prove a point as factual, while ignoring actual logic.

I get it though. You guys don't don't agree and your reasoning is what it is. I no longer have the energy or patience to continue, so I concede and this thread can fade into obscurity and you can have your headcanon 5-B Aizen...oh wait, i'm sorry, I'm the crazy one here, not you guys. How could I have been so stupid as to forget? Gee whiz, maybe I should stay in my place next time! It's whatever though. I'll fade back into obscurity as well.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Pretty much what Shadow said.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Does Aizen have other feats against Yhwach,except for chair feat?

Nope. Only getting Casually stomped.

 

[HST_Master]

Yes, he does. One Shotting all of the monsters Yhwach made with Mimihagi's spirit energy he absorbed fully, who's 5-B with a Kurohitsugi.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Yes, he does. One Shotting all of the monsters Yhwach made with Mimihagi's spirit energy he absorbed fully, who's 5-B with a Kurohitsugi.

Right, I forgot, always 5-B no matter what.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Why do you think those monsters aren't 5-B?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Feel free to give Yhwach a varied tier or change how scaling is done on the wiki.

 

[Heavens_Feel]

I do love these threads.

 

[Sekkonds.]

To save the day


Also what he did to yhwach-mimihagi darkness

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Feel free to give Yhwach a varied tier or change how scaling is done on the wiki.

No need. If a character isn't portrayed serious or is extremely casual, there's no reason to scale a weaker character to him if he's demonstrated variable AP, but that's too much like right for you guys.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Lol don't get low key angry because this thread you made failed like 4 times. It's because you keep ignoring simple scaling rules. If you don't have anything that shows 6-B or proof that Yhwach lowered his power by like millions for some reason. It's completely nonsense.