[Black Clover] Yami can tag base Sonic

[Saqphire]

I might get crucified for this but I might aswell go through with it

Currently, we accept Yami having "likely" Interdimensional range via this justification

...likely Interdimensional with Dark Cloaked Dimension Slash (Sliced through Dorothy's Glamour World, which is infinite in size, and simultaneously cut through objects in the regular world despite Glamour World being a separate pocket reality)

I sorta don't mind this justification, but I do believe his range should have a definite High Universal tier because of him slicing Glamour World which is accepted to be infinite in size alongside his listed "likely" Interdimensional tier because the feat is very blatant that it happened and there is no wiggle room for any "likely" or "possible" because that implies there may be a way for it to not be valid as a range feat, which there isn't.

My proposal for the range would be this:

Extended Melee Range with his katana, Tens of Kilometers with Dark Magic, High Universal, likely Interdimensional with Dark Cloaked Dimension Slash: Equinox (Sliced through Dorothy's Glamour World, which is infinite in size, and simultaneously cut through objects in the regular world despite Glamour World being a separate pocket reality)

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Now for the main point of the CRT:
Infinite Speed is defined by our very standards as either
a) Speed that goes at an infinite distance in finite time
b) Speed that goes a finite distance in zero time (with some context)

Infinite Speed (Able to travel any finite distance in zero time, or move an infinite distance within a finite amount of time. Teleportation does not count.)

Since we already accept that Yami sliced a "likely" interdimensional distance (and this CRT is thus arguing for a definite infinite distance) with Equinox, Yami should logically have Infinite Speed with Equinox to go for it since the feat would very blatantly qualify for the second requirement for it. No one should scale to it since each and every feat of people dodging Equinox or Dimension Slash involves people dodging it after it had only moved a finite distance (i.e. it hasn't yet moved an infinite distance before people dodged it as we see with Dorothy, Dante or Patri) or people get instantly tagged by it as we see with Vetto and Zagred

To be clear, I am not arguing for Yami himself having Infinite Speed, just his technique Equinox having Infinite Speed in attack speed aswell as High Universal range with it, so my proposal for his speed following his Elf Reincarnation Arc key would be this:

Relativistic+ (Faster than before. Comparable to Nozel), Infinite with Dark Cloaked Dimension Slash: Equinox (Sliced through Dorothy's Glamour World, which is infinite in size)

Agree: Shadowslaya!, AyOgUyS
Disagree: PHANtomFELdway
Neutral:

 

[Shadowslaya!]

Seems nice, agree.

 

[AyOgUyS]

At a glance this is fine, I agree as well.

 

[Saqphire]

Seems nice, agree.

At a glance this is fine, I agree as well.

Added your votes

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I think dodging it would still count as infinite speed… as the speed doesn’t change. The speed when it launches is the same as when it cuts through it. So imma have to disagree

 

[Damage3245]

What makes you think that Yami's slash crossed an infinite distance before it cut into things in the real world? Doesn't Interdimensional mean it could cut through both the Glamour World and whatever is in the path of the sword in the real world at once? The current justification does say "simultaneously" in it.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

What makes you think that Yami's slash crossed an infinite distance before it cut into things in the real world? Doesn't Interdimensional mean it could cut through both the Glamour World and whatever is in the path of the sword in the real world at once? The current justification does say "simultaneously" in it.

Can actually see him cut through glamour world and then the real world, glamour world was destroyed first. Julius also says that he cut through it

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

What makes you think that Yami's slash crossed an infinite distance before it cut into things in the real world? Doesn't Interdimensional mean it could cut through both the Glamour World and whatever is in the path of the sword in the real world at once? The current justification does say "simultaneously" in it.

Also the simultaneously was him cutting the crystals at the same time. Not about glamour world

 

[Saqphire]

I think dodging it would still count as infinite speed… as the speed doesn’t change. The speed when it launches is the same as when it cuts through it. So imma have to disagree

Yeah that makes sense if the slash had already went through an infinite distance and then Dorothy dodges it, but the feat is actually separated into two parts.

The first part is the speed resulting from the distance between Dorothy and Yami and the timeframe it took for it to reach her and her moving out of the way which is already quantified by the timeframe shown in the video which is far different from the second part of the feat where the distance is infinite and the timeframe is finite which Dorothy did not dodge. My point is that Dorothy would scale to whatever speed she gets from dodging the slash between her and Yami but not the part between her and the infinite distance

What makes you think that Yami's slash crossed an infinite distance before it cut into things in the real world? Doesn't Interdimensional mean it could cut through both the Glamour World and whatever is in the path of the sword in the real world at once? The current justification does say "simultaneously" in it.

Phantom already answered most of this but this question is talking about something I'm not even talking about which is Yami slashing the crystals, it's about Yami slashing GW before that. And even if Yami cut into the crystals and GW at the same time, it wouldn't really matter as a feat like this happening simultaneously as another still qualifies for what I'm proposing

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Yeah that makes sense if the slash had already went through an infinite distance and then Dorothy dodges it, but the feat is actually separated into two parts.

The first part is the speed resulting from the distance between Dorothy and Yami and the timeframe it took for it to reach her and her moving out of the way which is already quantified by the timeframe shown in the video which is far different from the second part of the feat where the distance is infinite and the timeframe is finite which Dorothy did not dodge. My point is that Dorothy would scale to whatever speed she gets from dodging the slash between her and Yami but not the part between her and the infinite distance

I know what you are trying to say. I simply don’t think that is how standards work, I could be wrong,but just the fact that it CAN travel infinite distances already means that the attack was lightspeed. There are no two parts as it is the same speed regardless of how far it went, probably not a good example but imagine it was a lightspeed attack. Regardless of how far it travels, unless its speed changed then it would still be light speed. Dodging it (depending on the circumstances would be light speed) there is no half or anything smaller that an infinite speed attack can be put into, so dodging it necessitates infinite speed. Dodging an immeasurable speed attack is definitely immeasurable speed. To reiterate, the moment it was used, it already had infinite speed.it didn’t have a finite speed and then sped up becoming able to cross an infinite distance. They are the same attacks so it was simply
Always the case that it could cross infinite distances.and therefore was always infinite speed

 

[Saqphire]

I know what you are trying to say. I simply don’t think that is how standards work, I could be wrong,but just the fact that it CAN travel infinite distances already means that the attack was lightspeed. There are no two parts as it is the same speed regardless of how far it went, probably not a good example but imagine it was a lightspeed attack. Regardless of how far it travels, unless its speed changed then it would still be light speed. Dodging it (depending on the circumstances would be light speed) there is no half or anything smaller that an infinite speed attack can be put into, so dodging it necessitates infinite speed. Dodging an immeasurable speed attack is definitely immeasurable speed. To reiterate, the moment it was used, it already had infinite speed.it didn’t have a finite speed and then sped up becoming able to cross an infinite distance. They are the same attacks so it was simply
Always the case that it could cross infinite distances.and therefore was always infinite speed

I mean, if a lightspeed attack was going through an infinite universe, and someone who's in it's trajectory sees it going towards them and moves a finite distance out of the way from it's initial position, they would still have a speed that's finitely quantifiable from that dodge but the attack can a final speed of infinite speed after a certain timeframe, thus an attack that goes at a finite speed at an infinite rate can be dodged with finite speed; this isn't contradictory and thus aligns with the standards.

Basically:
X shoots his attack that goes at lightspeed that reaches an eventual infinite distance in 10 seconds
2 seconds into the attack, it has gone a finite distance but Y dodges it before the 10 second mark, let's say in the 4th second they dodge it
Y would have a speed that's quantified with their distance in the 2 seconds they dodged it before the 10 second mark with the SOL initial speed while X's attack would have a SOL attack that becomes infinite in speed after the 10 second mark, kind of like how Pucci accelerates time until he reaches infinite speed and resets the universe in Jojos

This is also why immeasurable and infinite speed feats can't really be equated in this argument here as one entails a speed beyond linear time which would always be the case from the start due to it's nature and Yami's attack isn't beyond time and is rather a finite speed attack moving all the way into an infinite distance and crosses it after a finite timeframe.

 

[Worthless]

Since we already accept that Yami sliced a "likely" interdimensional distance (and this CRT is thus arguing for a definite infinite distance) with Equinox, Yami should logically have Infinite Speed with Equinox to go for it since the feat would very blatantly qualify for the second requirement for it

Yeah no because this is already covered by Infinite Range. Also, that's not how Equinox DS and DS work, their speed is never stated to start slow and then go infinite, thats just a baseless assumption to counter the obvious flaw in your infinite speed proposal

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I mean, if a lightspeed attack was going through an infinite universe, and someone who's in it's trajectory sees it going towards them and moves a finite distance out of the way from it's initial position, they would still have a speed that's finitely quantifiable from that dodge but the attack can a final speed of infinite speed after a certain timeframe, thus an attack that goes at a finite speed at an infinite rate can be dodged with finite speed; this isn't contradictory and thus aligns with the standards.

It going an infinite distance just means it was never lightspeed in the first place. Or it never truly went infinite distance after all.

Basically:
X shoots his attack that goes at lightspeed that reaches an eventual infinite distance in 10 seconds
2 seconds into the attack, it has gone a finite distance but Y dodges it before the 10 second mark, let's say in the 4th second they dodge it
Y would have a speed that's quantified with their distance in the 2 seconds they dodged it before the 10 second mark with the SOL initial speed while X's attack would have a SOL attack that becomes infinite in speed after the 10 second mark, kind of like how Pucci accelerates time until he reaches infinite speed and resets the universe in Jojos

No. This isn’t how it works, you even went as far as to bring up pucci acceleration which isn’t the case here. As it stays the same speed throughout the whole thing. Also yet again dodging it after it had gone a finite distance would STILL be infinite speed.

This is also why immeasurable and infinite speed feats can't really be equated in this argument here as one entails a speed beyond linear time which would always be the case from the start due to it's nature and Yami's attack isn't beyond time and is rather a finite speed attack moving all the way into an infinite distance and crosses it after a finite timeframe.

Yami attack isn’t finite speed… that is the whole point of infinite speed.

It isn’t a finite speed attack crossing an infinite amount of distance.

It is an attack that crosses an infinite distance within finite time. This isn’t a matter of how fast it gets there, it is about how far it got there within the timeframe. Taking years to cross universes is still mftl+ do to the distance traveled.literally what speed is

 

[Saqphire]

Yeah no because this is already covered by Infinite Range.

I know? I'm literally proposing that it's both speed and range as it makes logically no sense for the attack to have the range but not have the speed to accomodate for it; the speed page literally says this lmao

Also, that's not how Equinox DS and DS work, their speed is never stated to start slow and then go infinite, thats just a baseless assumption to counter the obvious flaw in your infinite speed proposal

Not even what I'm proposing either if you read my responses to Phantom. To allieviate any Dorothy counterarguments, I demonstrate that it's clearly shown to traverse a finite distance at a finite timeframe in the anime that Dorothy dodges at a finite distance thus it's a separate speed feat unlike if she actually dodged it after it reached the infinite distance