Bill Cipher's reddit abilities

[Kepekley23]

Can I ask why the majority of the reddit abilities that we once gave him based off of his in-character AMA were removed? Because not showing them in the actual show isn't a good enough reason to remove them, as it doesn't qualify as a direct contradiction, just him being subject to CIS.

 

[Eficiente]

Because not showing them in the actual show isn't a good enough reason to remove them, as it doesn't qualify as a contradiction.

I told the same to the guy who removed them, he just told Ant that no good reasoning was being brought up and asked him to unlock the profile to apply the changes. In his wall, not in the thread where everything was discussed.

The downplay and lack of professionalism of certain users also didn't help.

 

[Kepekley23]

Unless every single answer somehow directly contradicted an important detail or limitation shown in the show, Bill not showcasing the abilities wouldn't qualify as a contradiction (I hope people realize what that word means...), but merely as a limitation of his character and mindset.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It absoulutely did. We didn't remove all of them, see the quantum stuff, but Bill knowing every single possible to every single possible action for exemple certainly isn't consistent at all.

 

[Kepekley23]

Can you give examples of contradictions?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Of Bill knowing everything? Him being taken by surprise in dreamscapers, by the mech, not knowing the mecha's weakness, etc.

 

[Kepekley23]

> Of Bill knowing everything

Don't remember that ever being on his profile. Wasn't it nigh-omniscience?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

He had the ability to see every possible universe with that entailing seing every possible action he and others can take.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Following

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Can ya mention some of the other stuff removed that you don't agree with? It was a bit ago and I can't remember all of them properly.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Yes, it was nigh-omniscience but it got downgraded.

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, the "contradictions" to Bill's precog sound exactly like the massive downplay we try to apply to Yhwach being taken by surprise by the "Need-to-End-The-Manga-Because-I-Am-Sick" Arrow of Plot in the end of Bleach.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Also, the "contradictions" to Bill's precog sound exactly like the massive downplay we try to apply to Yhwach being taken by surprise by the "Need-to-End-The-Manga-Because-I-Am-Sick" Arrow of Plot in the end of Bleach.

Exept that wasn't ion the ending. Litirally everything that is canon, from Ford to the very end of weirdmageddon, wouldn't have happened if Bill knew everything.

He got surprised by Mabel tockling him in Dippers body, for exemple.


Which makes secondary canon hardly aplicable.

 

[DMB_1]

While it's not like every single ability listed there was contradicted in the show, the Reddit post was a qaA to Bill himself: so the OP roleplayed to be Bill and acted completely in character, which makes it difficult to take that seriously a character who overestimates himself and thinks he can do absolutely anything.

 

[Kepekley23]

First of all, Bill described his ability as a temporal kaleidoscope with "fluctuating range", so yes, obviously Bill wouldn't always predict everything accurately every single time. His 2-A precog was related to him seeing himself. Doesn't qualify as a contradiction.

And frankly, it sounds like massive PIS, word-for-word, that we are trying to use random examples that were necessary for plot progression and passing it as legitimate contradictions.

 

[TurboTriangle601]

IIRC, It was because someone could've easily asked a queston like "bill can you destroy a 15,000 dimensional multiverse" and knowing the OP, probably get a yes.

And that's just one of the points and iIm addressing it in a really simple way. There are people that can describe this better than I can.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

So, what was removed that you disagree with? I actually backed up why most of the stuff did not make sense in canon, and can do so again.

Stuff like quantum was left despite being reddit, so I'm pretty sure it wasn't just a purge on all that is Reddit, despite the unreliability (as admitted by himself on the same reddit thread).

 

[Kepekley23]

Except:

1. That did not actually happen.

2. That would be an outlier statement.

3. Bill dodged bait questions asked to him multiple times on the AMA and replied with other stuff instead.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

First of all, Bill described his ability as a temporal kaleidoscope with "fluctuating range", so yes, obviously Bill wouldn't always predict everything accurately every single time. His 2-A precog was related to him seeing himself. Doesn't qualify as a contradiction.
And frankly, it sounds like massive PIS, word-for-word, that we are trying to use random examples that were necessary for plot progression and passing it as legitimate contradictions.

Kep, litirally everythjing that is plot contradicts a statement made by the character that admits to exagerate stuff from secondary cano. We don't assume that it is PIS for secondary canon, or we would get so many upgrades that are frankly wrong.

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, the level of precog that Bill showed on the actual show (seeing lifespans) would still contradict some of the ridiculous plot progression-based issues we have listed. Should we downgrade what he's actually shown as well?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Mind you, if Bill had stuff like this stated in the show, I would be alright with it.

But his answers from Reddit aren't really enough to say everything in Gravity Falls is outliers with him. Or we might as well not make a page with him or make him Unknown because he is naturally a self-contradicting character in every way.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Also, the level of precog that Bill showed on the actual show (seeing lifespans) would still contradict some of the ridiculous plot progression-based issues we have listed. Should we downgrade what he's actually shown as well?

You cannot equate canon to secondary canon, and his Weirdmageddon plain breaks stuff like time, which is why he has or was supposed to get if he doesn't, acasuality type 3.

Quiet litirally everything got broken there, no reason to assume that he couldn't change the future (Since he had complete control oiver time and all, plus he wanted to be unshackeld by cause and effect)

 

[Kepekley23]

> Kep, litirally everythjing that is plot contradicts a statement made by the character that admits to exagerate stuff from secondary canon. We don't assume that it is PIS for secondary canon, or we would get so many upgrades that are frankly wrong.

It being secondary canon suddenly means that PIS isn't applicable anymore? What logic (lack thereof) is this? So if I take a secondary canon Official Book for a game, I can't apply PIS to some of the plot progression-forced low-ends in there either?

 

[Kepekley23]

> You cannot equate canon to secondary canon,

You can equate basic logic and common sense to anything, including primary, secondary or tertiary canon.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Everything Kep is arguing, I completely agree with. Bill's profile has been castrated by PIS that we solely scrutinize him to this extent for. I plan to make another thread highlighting the issue.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Exept litirally everything within canon contradicts the idea of him being able to see every possible action he takes. Much like statements, it isn't used if it contradicts stuff. Again, you can't say every lower showing is PIS he has because of a reddit statement when the show constantly contradicts it.

 

[The_Causality]

Never demonstrated doesn't mean PIS for the primary canon, if the statemate from WoG are reliable, nothing prevent those for being true and canon if they aren't contradicted.

 

[Kepekley23]

One of the "consistent low showings" here is him being surprised by being tackled by someone on a random scene.

Seriously. Where is the punchline?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I don't know about using his in-character AMA. A guy role playing as Bill and giving whacky Bill-like answers isn't exactly a hard-and-fast lore-based post.

I'm fine with using stuff like this if it is a dev team AMA, but Bill I'm this context seems more concerned with being whack and true to the character rather than giving serious insights into the nature and powers of Bill.

 

[Jinsye]

>Bill's so-called consistent low showings means he shouldn't have X

Well I guess he doesn't have either teleportation or telekinesis since he never used them on the kids.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Peeps legitimately argue him being spraypainted by Mabel as a legitimate showing, bro.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Never demonstrated doesn't mean PIS for the primary canon, if the statemate from WoG are reliable, nothing prevent those for being true and canon if they aren't contradicted.

That isn't the case here. What Kep is arguing for that the showings in Mindscaper, Weirdmaggedon, when he possesed people, etc. are PIS.

And no Kep, I gave more than one exemple as is, so you saying that is eitgher willingfully ignoring what I say or not reading it.

 

[Kepekley23]

Bill might be somewhat arrogant but that doesn't mean we should dismiss everything he says, especially when the background intent behind the AMA is to answer the actual questions, except while using Bill as a medium. Basic common sense, such as assuming something is true unless otherwise contradicted, should apply just fine.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

>Bill's so-called consistent low showings means he shouldn't have X
Well I guess he doesn't have either teleportation or telekinesis since he never used them on the kids.

He did use both of those tough. He didn't use it while angry, it was used in a batlle by him, and it isn't a reddit comment from a dude acting whacky as him.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Peeps legitimately argue him being spraypainted by Mabel as a legitimate showing, bro.

Not here, so I see no reason to bring it up.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

But Bill rarely gives straight answers and the AMA was clearly done with the intent of fun first, enlightenment and insight second.

 

[Jinsye]

But Bill rarely gives straight answers and the AMA was clearly done with the intent of fun first, enlightenment and insight second.

Something like Bill's precog is so stupidly specific and heavily supported by the show that it should be added.

He even specifies one of the futures where he pukes out numbers in response to the question.

 

[Kepekley23]

What qualifies as a straight answer in your view?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

But Bill rarely gives straight answers and the AMA was clearly done with the intent of fun first, enlightenment and insight second.

So's the show as a whole. What's the point?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

What qualifies as a straight answer in your view?

Something that puts insight and enlightenment first instead of in-character whacky role play.

While I do think some of those statements are believable, it seems like we're splitting hairs on what to accept and not accept.