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Big Ashen One Revision

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What are the conclusions here?
 
Okay. What still needs to be done here then, in summary?
 
Okay. You can ask some staff members who commented previously to do so again via their message walls.
 
Sir Ovens said:
Actually, in a side thing that some of us are discussing, the storm in Archdragon Peak may have been created by the King of the Storm. The storm not ending until NK is dead could mean that he did in fact absorb KotS's power.
However this is another issue entirely so please pay me no mind and carry on.
Click to expand...
It was; the Storm Curved Sword item description almost outright states this:

Curved sword imbued with the strength of the Stormdrake.
The Nameless King, ally of the ancient dragons, fought beside the Stormdrake in countless battles. When the great beast fell, the king claimed his soul, as was the custom in the age of gods

Skill: Tornado Imbue blade with the wrath of storm in a spinning motion, and follow with a strong attack to bear that wrath upon foes.
~ Storm Curved Sword item descriptio​
Can someone edit all of the profiles to better reflect this or something? Or even just add a note at the bottom of The Nameless King's page?
 
Is somebody willing to help him out?
 
So what is left to do here then? Only serious answers please. I am trying to keep all threads on track.
 
Alright so, I was asked to comment here about the space-time thing.

Long story short, Ashen should have it. However, it should be written as possibly. Not every character in Dark Souls gets the powers of those they absorb. Ashen doesn't get the powers of literally every boss he fights so possibly is about as far as it goes.
 
Sir Ovens' analysis is probably fine.
 
Thanks. Tell me here when you are done.
 
Just to clarify, if other staff members have disagreed with other things that Sir Ovens agreed with previously, that can obviously not be applied yet according to our standards. I only referred to his latest comment.
 
Ashen never once shows time manip outside of what I described earlier (traveling to other timelines via soapstone, for example) and wouldn't gain the abilities of the First Flame. It's entirely speculation as to whether Ashen can gain the actual abilities of those whose souls he gains, speculation that is unfounded in terms of gameplay- Ashen never gains abilities, merely items tied to them, from their souls.

I'm against space-time for Ashen. If a page gets made for the flame itself, that's fine, I guess.
 
@Apies

he said nothing aside from what he said in the last comment, which was the space-time stuff

@Bambu

The Ashen One absorbs he First Flame right in the ending cutscene, so of course he didn't show any space-time abilities

The lords gained their powers by asborbing the lord souls, making aspects of disparity their own, so the Dark Lord should logically be able to do the same with the First Flame

and actually the Ashen One is shown to have gained abilities, as he is able to mantain the existance of the sun, which is the power of the First Flame
 
Ashen also doesn't display any powers of any souls he picks up before this ending. Assuming he starts doing so conveniently in time to give him OP powers but not actually show them, seems a bit dishonest.

They are not the Ashen One.

That's because souls are fuel for the existing flame, which has that power. That is not an actual power he gains.
 
To clarify, there are two outcomes to this push for a more hax heavy Dark Souls.'

One, the right path, where we say "they never show it, they don't have it, we won't make leaps in logic to give it to them", and we move on.

Two, the wrong path, where we say "if they can do it, so can Ashen, now he has abilities, what can he do with them, nobody knows because he never actually does the thing to get the powers, we just tagged them on there because we felt he should have them for x and y reasons"

In neither scenario is any of this usable to him because, I repeat, he does nothing with them, ever.
 
none of the souls he asborbs are comparable to a Lord Soul tho, like they have no unique power attached to them.

Why would they be any different ? We are shown that arent the only beings that can absorb the lord/dark souls and gain power from it;

1. Manus have the powers of the abyss because he has a primordial human with a large chunk of the Dark souls

2. Gael gained the powers of the abyss by absorbing the dark soul

3. The Lost Sinner who has Izalith's lord soul has fire powers just like her

and the Ashen One, as a being that specifically absorbs souls to strenghten himself should be able to do the same, especially since Gael is just an undead and was able to do it

> That's because souls are fuel for the existing flame, which has that power. That is not an actual power he gains.

Except the sun changing in to white shows he has control over the flame

also it's not the "wrong way", we are shown by virtually every time a being absorbs a soul that the being gains powers, with the only times it's contraddicted being during gameplay, which should be threated as just game mechanics imo since it contraddicts everything else

"he does nothing with them, ever. "

Because he has no goddamn time to, the game ends the litteral second after he absorbs the flame
 
Well, if Bambu disagrees, I suppose that the edits have to be reverted. My apologies.
 
Oh, right, this.

"none of the souls he asborbs are comparable to a Lord Soul tho, like they have no unique power attached to them."

To my knowledge nobody ever absorbs a Lord Soul and then displays the traits of that Lord Soul. Chosen just puts them in the vessel, and taking the First Flame to become a Dark Lord means game ends. So literally this is just conjecture either way.

"Why would they be any different ? We are shown that arent the only beings that can absorb the lord/dark souls and gain power from it;"

Gain power, sure, gain abilities, no. Furthermore, once again, they are not us, even if they did validly do what you assume they did, that would mean zero things to us. You're saying, basically, "X character takes Y's soul and gains some trait- ergo we should be able to do the same to the literal First Flame". It doesn't make sense.

"Except the sun changing-"

Lemme stop you there- fuel level. More fuel (or less), different effects. Next.

"Because he has no goddamn time to, the game ends the litteral second after he absorbs the flame"

So you agree with me, then. He literally never shows any of the abilities you're suggesting he'd have for some reason, and just want to add them so he can continue to never use them.
 
That is what the Lords did tho, they each got powers rappresentative of disparity (Gwyn got the Light, Pigmy got the Dark, Nito Death and Izalith life) by obtaining a Lord Soul

Nothing and I repeat nothing states that the characters gaining from powers from souls have something special, hec, it is even metioned as a thing everybody during the ago of the gods did

The First Flame is the origin of souls, the thing they spawned from, so it'd be like saying that you can gain power by aborbing souls, but if you absorbthe concept of souls it does nothing

And for the last point, I don't see the problem
 
Is somebody willing to revert the edits?
 
ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
I'm not even sure if the First Flame is the source of the warping. I think it's just the world falling apart.
Click to expand...
Even if it isn't, which is heavelly pointed since the world goes falling apart when the flame starts fading, it would still have space time manipulation because of keeping the world togheter when stable
 
Thing is, we still don't know if Ashen has the powers the First Flame has. Ashen can absorb souls for strength, sure, but we don't know if he can absorb and use powers.
 
Geal, a Nameless Undead slave soldier, can, so why should't the Ashen One, who is just an undead that failed to kindle the fire, be unable to ?
 
Gael isn't a nameless undead soldier, and the soul he absorbed was a bit special compared to others. Furthermore, again, he didn't really gain powers from it, IIRC?

I think you're also making a massive leap in logic in absorbing a soul = absorbing the souls that fuel the first flame = absorbing the first flame.
 
Gael IS a nameless undead soldier, he doesn't have any special attribute beside being really old

During his second phase he shoots soul projectiles

The logic is more: Absorbing Lord Souls gives you abilities ----> Absorbing the First Flame gives you powers too as the Lord Souls come directly from it
 
Gael is not a nameless undead soldier. He was a nameless undead soldier. By the time we see him, he's been doing exactly what we've been doing for ages. The fact that the sole explanation is "well yes clearly he copied powers spontaneously from the thing he already had inside of him that he just didn't copy a minute before" is baffling. Homie has a second stage. Whoopdie doo.

That logic still doesn't follow. The First Flame isn't a soul.
 
Yes, and battling for thousands of years dosn't give you power absorbtion out of nowhere

Gael had lost his mind and didn't realize thst he had fully absorbed the dark soul until phae two starts, as seen by the fact he reacts supprised when he sees himself bleed the blood of the dsrk soul

Considering Izalith tried and partially succeded in creating a replacement First Flame by using her Lord Soul, the FF and lord souls are close enought in nature
 
It does mean you can pick up powers on the way. Since we start the game with very little and end the game with very much.

But he didn't lose his mind until phase 2, when he goes Hollow.

This means nothing in context to what I said? "The first flame isn't a soul" "But izalith made the Chaos Flame". Cool? I'm not talking about Lord Souls, I'm talking about the First Flame. Like even assuming we take the crazy interpretation of Soul Absorption = Power Mimicry with no basis outside of the conjecture you've presented, it still means nothing because you aren't talking about a soul, you're talking about the First Flame.
 
The PC does't gain any inherit powers, just items and magic, nothing similar to that

Also it's a VERY big assumption since nothing at all ever says of Gael having gained the special power of mimicry throught his journey

And there's also the fact we are repetedly and repetedly shown that ANY being in the dark souls verse can do it, litterally anybody can take a Lord Soul

You must missremember the, boss fight, because in stage one he acts like a feral beast, meanwhile in phase 2 he stands upright, he wields his sword properly, and uses his crossbow and miracles

The First Flame created the Lord Souls, the Lord Souls can create a replica of the First Flame, so since they both can create one another they should be of the same nature
 
Some of said items come from Gael, who may also have other items, is what I'm getting at But that brings up a point, you're disproving yourself here. The PC doesn't gain inherent powers. Which is what this entire argument is about, giving them inherent powers.

> Big assumption

> this thread

k

You must missremember the, boss fight, because in stage one he acts like a feral beast, meanwhile in phase 2 he stands upright, he wields his sword properly, and uses his crossbow and miracles.
~ Overlord​
"At the end of first phase, Gael turns Hollow. Therefore, he additionally becomes weak to the Hollowslayer Greatsword."

You're literally just wrong, dunno what to tell you. Like yeah, I remember how he fights, I'm just informing you that he loses his mind mid-fight. He goes hollow after Phase 1.

No they can't? That's literally the point of the Chaos Flame, was that it failed stupendously.
 
IThe DS1 and 2 protags not gaining powers when he gains the Lord Souls is a massive contradiction to the lore

At least my hypothesis are founded on pieces of lore and protrayals, not just assuption

The Chaos Flame is actually quite akin to the First Flame, generating the souls of demonkind just like how the FF did and also having a kindling process where the Demon Prince re-ignites it
 
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