Big Ashen One Revision

[Overlord775]

Stand by what I said before. Time Travel is gonna be a bit weird since... it doesnt really work as an ability, but rather they can be summoned through time, ditto for Dimensional Travel. Where does BFR come from

"The flow of time itself is convoluted; with heroes centuries old phasing in and out"

"The very fabric wavers, and relations shift and obscure."

"There's no telling how much longer your world and mine will remain in contact."

Reason for BFR

This doubles as Dimensional Travel [or dimensional BFR] since Anri. who cames from another "world" with his/her own version of Aldrich, appears in an identical way

Time Travel is because of the distortion that is the entrance to the Untended Graves and how it allows to physically travel to the past

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Sure, but like I said, it isn't really under their control. Time travel just sort of happens to them.

I think that's pretty weak justification for BFR, Time Travel isn't really something they can control.

 

[Antvasima]

I trust Bambu's sense of judgement.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

well techiclly it is since through the use of white sope stones(and summoning magics in general) people can be pulled through time it self

seen in the fact that prince recard who died in cense fortress can be summoned to arch dragon peak by those snake lizards

although i do suppose it can be dimensional travel rather then time travel

but one this is certain the ashen one while having the full power of the first flame should have greater control over thouse aspects then anyone else in the verse

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Sure, but again, they cannot actively time travel. Others summon them. In Solaire's case it did just sort of happen to him with no agency on his part. I'm fine with it being added, I just want it to be understood that this isn't something they can just do whenever they like.

See above.

Possibly, but where do we see this stuff?

 

[Sir_sun_man]

yeah i see where you are coming from

 

[Overlord775]

Yes, characters normally cannot control these events, but LoH Ashen One is different

He has absorbed the First Flame, the cause of the temporeal anomalyes, so he should have control over them

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yes, characters normally cannot control these events, but LoH Ashen One is different
He has absorbed the First Flame, the cause of the temporeal anomalyes, so he should have control over them

Can you prove this, or is this conjecture? Now, granted, a lot of Dark Souls is conjecture given that the series' lore is mostly implication and heresay. But I don't think anything implies "Absorption = Complete control over what the absorbed thing controlled".

 

[Overlord775]

well, we have a couple of exemples of character gaining the powers of the absorbed thing:

-Smough aborbs Ornstein's soul and gains the latter's lightning power

-The Nameless King absorbs Stormdrake's soul and gains the latter's storm power

>Aldrich gained Gwyndolin's magic by eating him

>Midir absorbed a lot of abyss and gained abyss-based powers

 

[Antvasima]

@Mr. Bambu

Thank you for helping out.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

well, we have a couple of exemples of character gaining the powers of the absorbed thing:

-Smough aborbs Ornstein's soul and gains the latter's lightning power

-The Nameless King absorbs Stormdrake's soul and gains the latter's storm power

>Aldrich gained Gwyndolin's magic by eating him

>Midir absorbed a lot of abyss and gained abyss-based powers

You have a good point.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

well, we have a couple of exemples of character gaining the powers of the absorbed thing:
-Smough aborbs Ornstein's soul and gains the latter's lightning power

-The Nameless King absorbs Stormdrake's soul and gains the latter's storm power

>Aldrich gained Gwyndolin's magic by eating him

>Midir absorbed a lot of abyss and gained abyss-based powers

Sure, but we have direct counterexamples that suggest these are more based on the powers of the beings. I can absorb the soul of said creatures and not gain any of these powers.

 

[Overlord775]

I think that's just gameplay mechanics, as the Cursed Undead doesn't gain powers when he absorbs the lord souls either, when they gave the lords their powers

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Right?

 

[Antvasima]

I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.

I trust Bambu to handle this though.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I think that's just gameplay mechanics, as the Cursed Undead doesn't gain powers when he absorbs the lord souls either, when they gave the lords their powers

I don't believe that a game where game mechanics are rarely that careless would randomly offer zero implication for something like this. If Miyazaki wanted characters to canonically gain all powers of a character via absorbing their souls, I'm 100% sure he would have included it. So for now I disagree.

 

[Overlord775]

i am pretty sure that beside the MCs every other instance of a character absorbing/taking souls gave said people powers, though i am not an expert of the events in DS2 so there may be evidence on your case there

But if your point is true, that very much debunks the entire CRT as it relies on the fact that the Ashen One gains the stuff from the First Flame

 

[Mr. Bambu]

other Ashen Ones certainly absorb souls and we see no such effects. This goes for other NPCs we know to do this as well (Solaire, Siegmeyer, and so on). The Iron Golem's core is made from an Everlasting Dragon but we see no traits of the Everlasting Dragon in the Iron Golem (granted, it says it is made from a bone even though it uses souls).

The Ashen One using the First Flame is fine. I don't think I agree with "you gain all powers of every boss you kill".

 

[Overlord775]

ok

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

This still going or are we done here?

 

[Overlord775]

still going

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

What's left to be finished?

 

[Overlord775]

He would have all the powers derived from the lord souls and dark soul, as they were directly spawned by the First Flame and rappresent the things broung in to existance [Light = Gwyn, Dark = Dark Soul, Life = Izalith, Death = Nito) by Disparity [which was too created by the First Soul] such has the powers of Gwy, Nito, the Witch of Izalith, Manus and Gael's stuff he gets from the Dark Soul

Space-Time Manipulation (It's the origin of all space-time anomalies in the verse, such has:

"The flow of time itself is convoluted; with heroes centuries old phasing in and out. The very fabric wavers, and relations shift and obscure. There's no telling how much longer your world and mine will remain in contact."

Caused The Dreg Heap , the collapse of all eras in to a single place

Space-Time being convoluted in Lothric, with lands shifting and moving and allowing to travel to the Untended Graves. a location in the past, just by walking there.) and heroes coming from different worlds

also it's possible that First Flame created time itseld, as it's hinted Light = Time by the decription of the Repair spell, as swell as the fact Filianore sends the player character foward in time by using a flash of light)

^

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah, that sounds about right. Why hasn't that been dealt with yet?

 

[Overlord775]

i wanted more input first

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Well here's your first supporter of that. I agree.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bump.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Count me in

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bump.

 

[PaChi2]

Ashen One shouldnt get all the abilities from the First Flame.

The First Flame the dood absorbed isnt the same flame that did all that.

 

[Overlord775]

thedying flame is the one that caused those space-time anomalies

and disparity still exists, so the dying flame would still have the ralated stuff

 

[PaChi2]

You dont know if they can use those abilities anyway

Absorbing souls doesnt grant you the abilities of those you absorbed, you'd have to prove that absorbing the FF gave Ashen One those abilities.

 

[Overlord775]

the Lords took souls from the First Flame and gained the powers of disparity, same principle applies here

also, we have a few exemple of absorbing souls = gaining powers

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Right.

 

[PaChi2]

Gwyn gave his soul to Seath and the Four Kings.

None of them got any abilities from it.

Smough case is different because he literally absorbed Ornsteins body as well as his soul. Nameless king got aboost in power, not his mounts' abilities.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Actually, in a side thing that some of us are discussing, the storm in Archdragon Peak may have been created by the King of the Storm. The storm not ending until NK is dead could mean that he did in fact absorb KotS's power.

However this is another issue entirely so please pay me no mind and carry on.

 

[Overlord775]

@Pachi

He gave them only a shard of his soul

Smough didn't absorb Ornstein's body, you can explicidly see it here

The Nameless King gained the storm powers of his drake, which he costatly spams throught phase 2

 

[ApiesDeathbyLazors]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the only characters that gain new powers from Absorption Lords? I don't believe any actual undead have displayed that.

 

[Overlord775]

Gael is undead and he gained powers by absorbing most of the dark soul

also well, the Ashen One by the end of the game is the "Dark Lord" and the "Lord of the Hollows"

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bump.