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Beyonder tier
- Thread starter NULL_Terrorist
- Start date
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This Thing ?
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It's not an interpretation, it's MM's own statement and assessment of his own fight, you couldn't get any more credible and non vague than that. Beyonder was likely holding back, he never really wanted to kill Molecule Man as he left MM alone when MM's girl left him and prior to their fight, was trying to give MM a chance by Beyonder's own words. MM's statement is the story's narrative of correcting the idea that MM had any chance against Beyonder.Antvasima said:
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You can't scale Classic Beyonder to newer cosmological powers that weren't around when he wasn't Retconned yet.EcchiOtakuTM said:
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Except nevermore was properly and consistently introduced as eternity's equal. Release date wouldn't matter since there isn't anything suggesting she weren't thus I bought up her name. Removing her from the argument or adding her to it doesn't change the argument which was said. If it makes you sleep better just disregard that mention of her name.Hykuu said:
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@BM
I read that statement as extreme unreliable hyperbole unsupported by what was actually shown within the story. We are definitely not going to upgrade the Beyonder's current rating. Sorry.
Also, please stop quoting other members. It is annoying, as it spams the page with unnecessary text.
I read that statement as extreme unreliable hyperbole unsupported by what was actually shown within the story. We are definitely not going to upgrade the Beyonder's current rating. Sorry.
Also, please stop quoting other members. It is annoying, as it spams the page with unnecessary text.
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? Make no mistake. I see no reason to upgrade Beyonder's tier, even if you agreed with it, that you should upgrade Beyonder's current rating. I don't recall such a thing.
Just wished to point out that it is MM's own assessment of his fight against Beyonder, whether you call it accurate or not is one thing, calling it a Hyperbole would be odd as it would be Beyonder saying that instead would be the hyperbole.
Just wished to point out that it is MM's own assessment of his fight against Beyonder, whether you call it accurate or not is one thing, calling it a Hyperbole would be odd as it would be Beyonder saying that instead would be the hyperbole.
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I am just saying that just because the weakminded Molecule Man was overwhelmed by the Beyonder and felt outmatched afterwards, does not mean that the difference between them was as large as that between Molecule Man and Captain America. That is ridiculous given the circumstances.
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What?? She is extremely above eternity, she literally exists in a realm which transcends eternity (The outside), saved him in ulitmates, created a realm which lacks the concepts of space time, etc etcEcchiOtakuTM said:
Yes it would, the writer while writing the comic didn't include neverqueen in the statement, because she literally didn't exist, you are acting like the characters have a mind of their own and can see future retcons with these statements. not to mention Neverqueen is already far below oblivion anyways, this point is irrelevant and doesn't insist on beyonder > oblivion
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You can rationalize this by assuming that Beyonder was holding back, even during the square off, Beyonder was still asking for MM to change his mind. MM's statement is a narrative to correct the reader that MM still really had no chance intricately.
We know that MM blasted two multi-dimensional attacks at Beyonder and no-selled it. That's the same if Captain America threw his shield twice at MM and would no sell it. I don't see a discrepancy at all. At full power if serious, there was nothing MM could do to seriously harm Beyonder fair and square and never once did in that way.
We know that MM blasted two multi-dimensional attacks at Beyonder and no-selled it. That's the same if Captain America threw his shield twice at MM and would no sell it. I don't see a discrepancy at all. At full power if serious, there was nothing MM could do to seriously harm Beyonder fair and square and never once did in that way.
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Who said Beyonder reduced the quality of his own power? He just didn't use all of it till the end of the fight. We already know that the Marvel Multiverse's entire energy that MM was trying to use wouldn't even be enough to kill Beyonder who would just effortlessly no sell it as we've already seen twice blasted to him, that's the same way how MM wouldn't be killed by Captain America. It's as simple as that.
Don't you see? I'm not concerned about how you tier Beyonder, I'm concerned with the story of Secret Wars in context itself.
Don't you see? I'm not concerned about how you tier Beyonder, I'm concerned with the story of Secret Wars in context itself.
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@Hykuu
Eternity and the rest of the ultimate multiverses exist in the outside. That's literally where lifebringer was talking to eternity before heading back into him, reread that run. And eternity does contain non-outside areas within him which lack that like his heart. And eternity was chained by first firmament, nevermore saving him doesn't make her over him considering who was the chosen target. So as I said they were proper equals taking or adding her doesn't matter focus on the real point.
@antvasima
Beyonder had to hold back from plainly destroying the multiverse just from existing in it. I don't agree that an ocean trying to exist in a drop of water could do that without holding back. Also beyonder was trying to be non-hostile to MM. And MM was still considered one of the top two going all out vs someone holding back by a ridiculous amount. Same guy who even uncovered the inf dimensional structure and yet still said it was a drop of water to an ocean. That statement of humanity to MM to beyonder should be valid enough to support him.
Eternity and the rest of the ultimate multiverses exist in the outside. That's literally where lifebringer was talking to eternity before heading back into him, reread that run. And eternity does contain non-outside areas within him which lack that like his heart. And eternity was chained by first firmament, nevermore saving him doesn't make her over him considering who was the chosen target. So as I said they were proper equals taking or adding her doesn't matter focus on the real point.
@antvasima
Beyonder had to hold back from plainly destroying the multiverse just from existing in it. I don't agree that an ocean trying to exist in a drop of water could do that without holding back. Also beyonder was trying to be non-hostile to MM. And MM was still considered one of the top two going all out vs someone holding back by a ridiculous amount. Same guy who even uncovered the inf dimensional structure and yet still said it was a drop of water to an ocean. That statement of humanity to MM to beyonder should be valid enough to support him.
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" Eternity and the rest of the ultimate multiverses exist in the outside. That's literally where lifebringer was talking to eternity before heading back into him, reread that run. And eternity does contain non-outside areas within him which lack that like his heart. And eternity was chained by first firmament, nevermore saving him doesn't make her over him considering who was the chosen target. So as I said they were proper equals taking or adding her doesn't matter focus on the real point. "
" >not to mention Neverqueen is already far below oblivion anyways, this point is irrelevant and doesn't insist on beyonder > oblivion "
" Yes it would, the writer while writing the comic didn't include neverqueen in the statement, because she literally didn't exist, you are acting like the characters have a mind of their own and can see future retcons with these statements"
Retcons can effec the validity of a statement Ya know.
" >not to mention Neverqueen is already far below oblivion anyways, this point is irrelevant and doesn't insist on beyonder > oblivion "
" Yes it would, the writer while writing the comic didn't include neverqueen in the statement, because she literally didn't exist, you are acting like the characters have a mind of their own and can see future retcons with these statements"
Retcons can effec the validity of a statement Ya know.
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@Hykuu
Now I see what you're going on and on about. I stopped going for beyonder and oblivion from the first post and simply changed to give another reason for beyonder's tier. Hence why I said eternity/nevermore. Them being below oblivion and excluding nevermore doesn't change the core focus of what I'm saying. Just drop nevermore and focus on the real statement from it.
Now I see what you're going on and on about. I stopped going for beyonder and oblivion from the first post and simply changed to give another reason for beyonder's tier. Hence why I said eternity/nevermore. Them being below oblivion and excluding nevermore doesn't change the core focus of what I'm saying. Just drop nevermore and focus on the real statement from it.
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@Hykuu
Except It's something that will affect how well into the tier he is, if it happens he's dropped to baseline. So the topic as title says is his tier since oblivion was a major part of it. Thus there isn't anything wrong with bringing up said statement.
Except It's something that will affect how well into the tier he is, if it happens he's dropped to baseline. So the topic as title says is his tier since oblivion was a major part of it. Thus there isn't anything wrong with bringing up said statement.
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@hykuu
And how so exactly?
And how so exactly?
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@EcchiOtaku
A universe was stated as a drop in the ocean compared to the Beyonder. The multiverse was stated to be millions of times below him.
Even if the Molecule Man was similarly millions of times below the Beyonder, which is definitely not apparent from their clash, that is not at all the same as being a massively infinite number of times below him.
I am never going to be convinced otherwise, and am extremely busy with other tasks, so i would appreciate if we could immediately permanently drop this subject and focus on the original topic of whether or not we should remove the phrase that scales the Beyonder from Oblivion.
A universe was stated as a drop in the ocean compared to the Beyonder. The multiverse was stated to be millions of times below him.
Even if the Molecule Man was similarly millions of times below the Beyonder, which is definitely not apparent from their clash, that is not at all the same as being a massively infinite number of times below him.
I am never going to be convinced otherwise, and am extremely busy with other tasks, so i would appreciate if we could immediately permanently drop this subject and focus on the original topic of whether or not we should remove the phrase that scales the Beyonder from Oblivion.
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"A universe was stated as a drop in the ocean compared to the Beyonder. The multiverse was stated to be millions of times below him."
Universe in this context was referring to the entire Infinite Dimensional Multiverse and a Totality in context, if this literally mean't just a local universe, that would mean Beyonder's Realm was just the size of 2.664*10^25 Universes, and was never Infinite Dimensional.
Universe in this context was referring to the entire Infinite Dimensional Multiverse and a Totality in context, if this literally mean't just a local universe, that would mean Beyonder's Realm was just the size of 2.664*10^25 Universes, and was never Infinite Dimensional.
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No, narration only mentioned a regular universe, not the multiverse. Anything else is wild speculation. It was an allegorical statement to get a mostly uninformed audience to get some grasp of the scale involved.
Regardless, the Beyonder explicitly only transcended the multiverse a few million times, and I am far too overworked to continue to waste time arguing about this with you.
I have already asked you to drop the subject, so we can return to the original topic, rather than focus on irrelevant nonsense. Thank you.
Regardless, the Beyonder explicitly only transcended the multiverse a few million times, and I am far too overworked to continue to waste time arguing about this with you.
I have already asked you to drop the subject, so we can return to the original topic, rather than focus on irrelevant nonsense. Thank you.
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