Berserker vs Rider: Zero vs Apocrypha

[Creaturemaster971]

Might do more rounds, who knows.

Berserker (Fate/Zero) vs Rider of Red (Achilles)

Sorry for the sparse OP, I'm on mobile and short on time

 

[Apeironaxim]

can Zerkalot even hurt Achilles without having Divinity?

 

[BakiHanma18]

Following

 

[John985]

I dont think he can even damage Achilles. You would need a Divinity or Divine weapon.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Arondight is capable of harming Achilles since its a divine construct but nothing else Berserker has can harm Achilles.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Does Zerk have Arondight? It's a divine construct, so it would work

 

[Apeironaxim]

how does Achilles tend to fight?

would he mostly stay in his Chariot, or on his feet?

 

[BakiHanma18]

Arondight is capable of harming Achilles since its a divine construct but nothing else Berserker has can harm Achilles.

ninja'd

 

[John985]

Forgot the Arondight is Divine construct and its not even his first. From what I remember in FGO, he only use anything he can hold as a weapon.

Dont know how he fights in Extella link though, only have the first game.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Achilles has a decent speed advantage right?

isn't that a big thing about him, he's the fastest hero?

 

[PsychoWarper]

Heres Achilles vs Atlanta after his Heel was pierced.

https://youtu.be/6a557D-vXto

He does start off using his Chariot but is more then willing to abandon it and use his spear.

 

[John985]

From what I remember in Apocrypha, he doesnt really use his chariot that much. He only use it as transport.

But in Apocrypha event in FGO, he use it to fight large number of enemies. Because he need to cover a lot of areas.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Yes he has a NP that makes him the fastest hero, he is capable of crossing an entire battle field in a single breath and is an extremely skilled fighter.

 

[BakiHanma18]

I see them having a battle with vehicles similar to Zerk v Gil at some point in the match tbh

 

[Creaturemaster971]

So essentially the question overall is who would win if instead of the Black Team we got in Apocrypha, it consisted of the servants from Zero. So basically whatever the two would have if they were summoned in character under Apocrypha conditions.

 

[Apeironaxim]

how fast is Zerkalot to pull out Arondight?

 

[BakiHanma18]

how fast is Zerkalot to pull out Arondight?

If it's comparable to the Excalibur partial charge from Fate/Zero, it's about a second, because I believe Via Expungnatio from Iskandar is stated to cover like 100 m in a second and it almost reached her before she even got off a partial charge

 

[Apeironaxim]

i meant how quick is he gonna pull it out in the fight, since he can't harm Achilles until he does

 

[John985]

Well if he doesnt have any weapon to use like when Arturia destroyed all his guns, he would likely use it.

 

[BakiHanma18]

i meant how quick is he gonna pull it out in the fight, since he can't harm Achilles until he does

Ah, it'll probably be a bit since he has to both realize his weapons aren't doing anything and why while dealing with Madness Enhancement

 

[Apeironaxim]

and considering Achilles is going to have a speed advantage as well, Zerkalot is prob gonna be pretty damaged before he can even begin to hurt Achilles

 

[BakiHanma18]

I'm leaning toward Achilles as of rn, but I'll wait to vote a bit

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Achilles is skilled, but I don't see him being as skilled as Lancelot.

Speed equal means that Achilles' skill won't matter, as it would be his speed at the start of the match. The Chariot still makes him faster.

Unless he's looking to be honorable and all that bull, he won't care about abusing his NP if he thinks it fits the situation, but face to face is still way more likely.

Don't use FGO if you can help it as reference, FGO cares about animations and wanted to differentiate Saber from Berserker. Berserker isn't gonna do it right away, but he's gonna default for Arondight soon enough as he will notice he's not dealing any damage. Though of course, I mean notice in a more instinctual sort of way.

 

[Apeironaxim]

OP doesn't say Speed Equal

honestly, there'd be no reason for it anyway

 

[Reppuzan]

It's important to note that while Achilles is fast, even on his chariot, he's not untouchable. Chiron was more than able to take potshots at him as well as duel him relatively evenly in hand-to-hand combat (then again, A-Rank Clairvoyance helps).

The fight could honestly go either way, since Achilles can potentially win if he runs Lancelot over, but after drawing Arondight, Lancelot has a solid chance of just battering through Achilles' offense to take him down.

 

[Apeironaxim]

wouldn't Achilles have a slight range advantage with his spear?

it looks longer then the sword, though that probably won't play much into the fight

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I had imagined Speed Equal was part of the standard assumptions.

If not, oh well.

The main issue is how quickly Berserker decides to pull Arondight. Which, if none of his weapons work, I am tempted to say much sooner than latter.

 

[PsychoWarper]

They are both extremely skilled with Lancelot having an advantage but Achilles has a speed advantage that should make up for the skill difference.

But what im curious about is Achilles' World shield as if its pulled out the match ends but Achilles doesnt pull it very quickly.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Hm? Why would the match end?

 

[Apeironaxim]

i think it's cause it's implied or even stated Achilles can use the shield to ram someone with the weight of a World

so would prob kill Zerkalot

 

[Creaturemaster971]

How do we know that's what it Does? We've only ever seen it used to block an attack

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

There's a reason why it has unknown, we have no clue what does that mean in term of damage. I don't even agree a single bit with the World-level durality but there's not much that can be done.

As for the dura of the shield, it would indeed put things heavily in Achilles' favor since he has the speed the deal with his assault using it. It can be circumvented, but it would be much harder.

 

[Apeironaxim]

comes from Fate Apoc material Encyclopedia thing

In addition, when Achilles alone wields it, this shield can be used to "attack" as well. After deploying the Noble Phantasm, he would aim to crush the enemy with that miniature world by continuously pushing forward. Most likely, Hephaestus never thought of such a method of using it.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Frankly I disagree with any servants having one key, but that's another matter entirely.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

What any further keys would they have?

But yes, like I said, there's a reason why the attack is just left as an unknown. There's no way to quantify.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Well we know that Servants exhibit entirely different power scales depending on their masters and other environmental circumstances, hence why in different series they have wildly different displays of power. And if I recall correctly, the Great Holy Grail War took place under circumstances (leylines or something) that allowed the Servants involved to be far more powerful than in, say, Stay Night, where even Noble Phantasms seemed to peak around City Level.

Ergo, I think Servants should have keys for different possible summoning circumstances.

 

[PsychoWarper]

"At least Star level, likely Multiverse level+ with combination of Akhilleus Kosmos and Diatrekhōn Astēr Lonkhē (With the combination of power of these weapons, Hephaestus was able to create a weapon that will overpower and kill True Form Artemis)"

How should this be created cause it sounds like Hephaestus is needed for this.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Nah, that had nothing to do with it, that only affected Vlad due to the boost from his country and the further boost from one of his skills.

Accounting for summoning circumstances is not ever gonna happen though. We have no clue how well or not they do or how their strength fluctuates between countries, we also have no clue how it may fluctuate depending on the master and we wouldn't make a key for masters they haven't had (a super minuscule percentage of them have had anyone but Ritsuka), and their profile already notes their stats. If there was some variation, we would see it, and we do see it when they get summoned in other classes as an example.

 

[PsychoWarper]

That would require... ALOT of different keys and calcs.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Fair. I know it's an unreasonable desire, it's just one that I have