Ben 10 - Questionable Armadrillo Calc

[Damage3245]

I noticed a potential issue while examining this calculation:

Armadrillo' species destroy their homeworld: 2.599386266666667e+28 J (High 6-A)

The calc relies on two assumptions for the figures used which is derived from this section of the image linked in the calc:

Polona Luncas is not a planet but an asteroid belt in the Andromeda galaxy - a cluster of irregular chunks of rock the size of small moons - formed when, at some long-forgotten point in the past, the alien species known as Talpaedans jack-hammered their own homeworld into pieces!

1) The result debris from the destruction of their planet formed an asteroid belt. Therefore there must be around 1.1 to 1.9 million asteroids in an asteroid belt (the same as our IRL asteroid belt).

2) The irregular chunks of rock are the size of small Moons. Therefore every piece of the asteroid belt has the same volume as Europa.

The original mass of the Talpaedan's homeworld is then found by simply multiplying the mass of 1.5 million asteroids but the volume of Europa, using the density of the Earth. Which gets the GBE.

While there's technically no solid basis for the assumption of the number of asteroids present in the Talpaedan's asteroid belt, I can understand that assumption being used, but it seems problematic that Europa is being taken as the baseline for what a "small Moon" is for the calc. A quick example here shows that Europa is far from the smallest Moon in our Solar System:

I think a more conservative mass value should be used for the average asteroid in this asteroid belt formed from the destruction of the Talpaedan's homeworld.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Are you opting for a mid range mass/moon?

 

[Damage3245]

Are you opting for a mid range mass/moon?

I'm thinking that we could average out at least a dozen small Moons from the Solar System such as the ones from the list in the OP and use that as the average figure of the asteroids in the Talpaedan's asteroid belt.

Europa is just a little bit smaller than Earth's own Moon, so not what I'd automatically consider if I had to use a "small Moon" for the calc.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I'm thinking that we could average out at least a dozen small Moons from the Solar System such as the ones from the list in the OP and use that as the average figure of the asteroids in the Talpaedan's asteroid belt.

Europa is just a little bit smaller than Earth's own Moon, so not what I'd automatically consider if I had to use a "small Moon" for the calc.

I'm not a calc member but I'm fine with this approach unless it can be proven these "small moons" should be comparable to Europa. I'll see what the Ben 10 supports and other calc members say but right now I agree with using the average.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Couldn't we use the fact that there was an atmosphere on that "asteroids" I mean, If I'm not wrong, there's need to be a minimum size for a body to have an atmosphere.

If not, then I agree with using a more average standard for "small Moon"

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Couldn't we use the fact that there was an atmosphere on that "asteroids" I mean, If I'm not wrong, there's need to be a minimum size for a body to have an atmosphere.

Earth's gravity maintains the atmosphere, yes.
And I recall that the Andromeda aliens couldn't breath in space.
Edit; Skip to 17:50. The tag isn't working.

 

[Damage3245]

And I recall that the Andromeda aliens couldn't breath in space.

That clip only shows that the one alien there at the very least needs to breathe.

Are there any scenes of the Talpaedan's needing to breathe? Or any shots of the asteroids that show that they have an atmosphere?

 

[GeneralSol16]

Are there any scenes of the Talpaedan's needing to breathe?

Armodrilo textually needed to breath, Elena was killing him via sofocation during UA.

So, yeah, they need to breath.

 

[Lort15]

Armodrilo textually needed to breath, Elena was killing him via sofocation during UA.

So, yeah, they need to breath.

Here is the scan for that: 0:50

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Here is the scan for that: 0:50

2:45 - Wall Level Aliens

 

[Robo432343]

neutral

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think we've been shown that they all individually have their own atmospheres.

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

I don't think we've been shown that they all individually have their own atmospheres.

It says that the chunks of rocks are the size of small moons and that the species pretty much lives and mines on these asteroids. So most of them should be realistically big if they're able to carve entire tunnel networks through them and need specialized markings to indicate their location.

It even says that underneath each asteroid is a vast complex maze of caverns. So each asteroid needs an atmosphere to be habitatable for them.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

It says that the chunks of rocks are the size of small moons and that the species pretty much lives and mines on these asteroids. So most of them should be realistically big if they're able to carve entire tunnel networks through them and need specialized markings to indicate their location.

It even says that underneath each asteroid is a vast complex maze of caverns. So each asteroid needs an atmosphere to be habitatable for them.

Or the other explanation is that they have https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Space_Survival


Given the fact there are species capable of living in space in form of microorganisms although not all of them are capable of surviving indefinitely though

It is natural to assume they have adaptations and evolutions that enable them to survive in outer space without any issues.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

One more reason is they are capable of using technology that allows them to survive in outer space.

I believe we have a ability that accounts for equipment that enable the ability to survive in outer space without much of a issue

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Here is the scan for that: 0:50

At the 0:50 to 0:55 mark, suffocation is via the neck, not the entire body when she attempts to restrict and encase Ben with her ability so I don’t see this as strong evidence tbh

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Or the other explanation is that they have https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Space_Survival

Unlikely.

Given the fact there are species capable of living in space in form of microorganisms although not all of them are capable of surviving indefinitely though

Ben/Armodrillo couldn't even hold his breath for a minute after the microchips blocked off his access to air. Much less hold their breath long enough to dig entire cavern structures.

It is natural to assume they have adaptations and evolutions that enable them to survive in outer space without any issues.

Agreed. But they still need air/atmosphere as proven earlier.

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

At the 0:50 to 0:55 mark, suffocation is via the neck, not the entire body when she attempts to restrict and encase Ben with her ability so I don’t see this as strong evidence tbh

So, he'd still need air. Blocking it off from the mouth or neck makes very little to no difference. He even only started suffocating after it covered everything.

 

[DemonicDude]

Didn't Elena Suffocate Ultimate Echo Echo as well would that be any help ? the scene where he was spewing out Nanochips out of his mouth.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

So, he'd still need air. Blocking it off from the mouth or neck makes very little to no difference. He even only started suffocating after it covered everything.

He was still in the space station when he was confronting her is the main reason why I consider the evidence to being weak tbh.

Ben/Armodrillo couldn't even hold his breath for a minute after the microchips blocked off his access to air. Much less hold their breath long enough to dig entire cavern structures.

Again, this entire instance take place in a space station designed to enable survivability in outer space

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Didn't Elena Suffocate Ultimate Echo Echo as well would that be any help ? the scene where he was spewing out Nanochips out of his mouth.

Unfortunately, no, as that take place on Earth for that one. We talking primarily on Outer Space here

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

He was still in the space station when he was confronting her is the main reason why I consider the evidence to being weak tbh.

Unfortunately, no, as that take place on Earth for that one. We talking primarily on Outer Space here

Ben/Armodrillo was Earth when he confronted and got suffocated by Elena.

Again, this entire instance take place in a space station designed to enable survivability in outer space

No, the suffocating scene happens on earth at Elena's lab.

Armodrillo also has no evidence to suggest that he has the ability to breath in space or hold his breath long enough to breath for that long. Survive extreme temperatures and pressure, maybe.

One more reason is they are capable of using technology that allows them to survive in outer space.

I believe we have a ability that accounts for equipment that enable the ability to survive in outer space without much of a issue

If they're not able to breath in space without tech then their species would've gone extinct when their planet got destroyed and their atmosphere was compromised.

Also, we've canonically seen Armodrillo's home in OV. We see it has clouds and wind and all kinds of thing that you don't find without a atmosphere.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Ben/Armodrillo was Earth when he confronted and got suffocated by Elena.

No, the suffocating scene happens on earth at Elena's lab.

Armodrillo also has no evidence to suggest that he has the ability to breath in space or hold his breath long enough to breath for that long. Survive extreme temperatures and pressure, maybe.

If they're not able to breath in space without tech then their species would've gone extinct when their planet got destroyed and their atmosphere was compromised.

Also, we've canonically seen Armodrillo's home in OV. We see it has clouds and wind and all kinds of thing that you don't find without a atmosphere.

Hmm, that is fair enough. So we will go with technology in this case

 

[GeneralSol16]

Hmm, that is fair enough. So we will go with technology in this case

Andreas was shown to be extremely dump in comparison with the Earth standards, and not all of Ben's aliens are as gecvnologial advanced as some others of the same universe.

Implying that one of the species that is presented as "dump" have developed tech that enables Space survival is a huge stretch go their intelligence.

Also, there's no proof of that at all, so the best way of interpreting this is via "Those things have an atmosphere".

 

[Damage3245]

I think that method relies on too much speculation. (Underground tunnels that are sealed off from the outside could easily have a pressurized atmosphere, and living on the surface just requires suits)

The best method to me would be use an average of "small Moons" to get the value.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Andreas was shown to be extremely dump in comparison with the Earth standards, and not all of Ben's aliens are as gecvnologial advanced as some others of the same universe.

Implying that one of the species that is presented as "dump" have developed tech that enables Space survival is a huge stretch go their intelligence.

Also, there's no proof of that at all, so the best way of interpreting this is via "Those things have an atmosphere".

That also doesn’t inherently prove there is atmosphere in the asteroids as it is not impossible for a species to get external aid plus we don’t even know when this all occurred.

 

[GeneralSol16]

as it is not impossible for a species to get external aid

Except that it is.
In UA, it gets revealed that the Plumbers have rules against external aid to other planets to accelerate their development, so your reasonings are wrong, again.

 

[GeneralSol16]

and living on the surface just requires suits)

The Talpaedan don't have suits, or enoughly advance technology to have an alternate way.

The contexts of the series makes it clear.

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Hmm, that is fair enough. So we will go with technology in this case

If they're not able to breath in space without tech then their species would've gone extinct when their planet got destroyed and their atmosphere was compromised.

Andreas was shown to be extremely dump in comparison with the Earth standards, and not all of Ben's aliens are as gecvnologial advanced as some others of the same universe.

Implying that one of the species that is presented as "dump" have developed tech that enables Space survival is a huge stretch go their intelligence.

Also, there's no proof of that at all, so the best way of interpreting this is via "Those things have an atmosphere".

Even they're homeworld shows no signs of advanced infrastructure. Just barren desert.

No, the Talpadeans have shown very little in terms of Iq like Andreas or technological advancements as shown by the little to no infrastructure on their planet.

I think that method relies on too much speculation. (Underground tunnels that are sealed off from the outside could easily have a pressurized atmosphere, and living on the surface just requires suits)

The best method to me would be use an average of "small Moons" to get the value.

No. You're just over complicating it. I've already shown that these asteroids have an atmosphere, as shown by Khyber hunting down the slamworm on Armodrillo's predator. We see clouds and wind and sand remaining on the service of the asteroid. Things that shouldn't be possible without gravity or atmosphere.

Also, we've canonically seen Armodrillo's home in OV. We see it has clouds and wind and all kinds of thing that you don't find without a atmosphere.

That also doesn’t inherently prove there is atmosphere in the asteroids as it is not impossible for a species to get external aid plus we don’t even know when this all occurred.

Khyber was hired by Malware and Pshybos after the events of Malware beating Kid Ben and gaining the Omnitrix's designs. Armodrillo's planet was destroyed long before that in the far forgotten past as shown in the scan. So long before event of the OG series and yet the asteroids still have an atmosphere.

Armadrillo' species destroy their homeworld: 2.599386266666667e+28 J (High 6-A)

 

[HammerStrikes219]

No. You're just over complicating it. I've already shown that these asteroids have an atmosphere, as shown by Khyber hunting down the slamworm on Armodrillo's predator. We see clouds and wind and sand remaining on the service of the asteroid. Things that shouldn't be possible without gravity or atmosphere

Wait a minute, the video from OV show the planet is intact, not a place full of asteroids belts that apparently used to been a planet.

Care to explain this then?

 

[DemonicDude]

In UA, it gets revealed that the Plumbers have rules against external aid to other planets to accelerate their development, so your reasonings are wrong, again.

Clip of this ?
please post with scans

 

[GeneralSol16]

Wait a minute, the video from OV show the planet is intact, not a place full of asteroids belts that apparently used to been a planet.

Care to explain this then?

That wasn't Armodrillo's homeworld.

The predators of Ben's aliens were in different places that originally, that's why Crabdozer, Heatblast's predator, isn't in a sun

And even then, the OV won't allow you to see a damned asteroid belt the size of moons

 

[GeneralSol16]

Clip of this ?
please post with scans

Is in the same clip you quoted

 

[HammerStrikes219]

That wasn't Armodrillo's homeworld.

The predators of Ben's aliens were in different places that originally, that's why Crabdozer, Heatblast's predator, isn't in a sun

And even then, the OV won't allow you to see a damned asteroid belt the size of moons

Then explain this.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/ben10/images/f/f2/Poiana_Lüncas.png/revision/latest?cb=20130305150630

 

[GeneralSol16]

Then explain this.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/ben10/images/f/f2/Poiana_Lüncas.png/revision/latest?cb=20130305150630

What's that supposed to be...?

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Wait a minute, the video from OV show the planet is intact, not a place full of asteroids belts that apparently used to been a planet.

Care to explain this then?

Google 'Why is the sky blue?'
Light fractures upon contact with our atmosphere giving it a blue color.
This is why we don't see the stars during the day. And further proves Andrea's asteroids have an Atmosphere.

Clip of this ?
please post with scans

1st episode of Alien Force. Kevin was in trouble with that one Plumber for dealing level 5 tech on a level 2 planet(Earth). I'll link a video as soon as I find it.

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Wait a minute, the video from OV show the planet is intact, not a place full of asteroids belts that apparently used to been a planet.

Care to explain this then?

Google 'Why is the sky blue?'
Light fractures upon contact with our atmosphere giving it a blue color.
This is why we don't see the stars during the day. And further proves Andrea's asteroids have an Atmosphere.

Clip of this ?
please post with scans

1st episode of Alien Force. Kevin was in trouble with that one Plumber for dealing level 5 tech on a level 2 planet(Earth). I'll link a video as soon as I find it.

 

[Damage3245]

Then explain this.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/ben10/images/f/f2/Poiana_Lüncas.png/revision/latest?cb=20130305150630

Going by this, it may be that the original information the calc is based on has been retconned:

 

[HammerStrikes219]

during the day. And further proves Andrea's asteroids have an Atmosphere.

That doesn’t explain why it is apparently intact rather than shatter into a bunch of asteriods

 

[DemonicDude]

Then explain this.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/ben10/images/f/f2/Poiana_Lüncas.png/revision/latest?cb=20130305150630

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