Bayonetta Cosmology Upgrade

[Comicgyal]

Hello, we will now begin our Bayonetta 3 upgrades. Starting with our cosmological revisions.

Since this is not a scaling blog, let’s keep all discussions centered to the cosmology. Not which characters will be upgraded, that will be handled in another CRT.

Into The Bayoverse

vsbattles.fandom.com

Agree: WeeklyBattles, DarkDragonMedeus, Dalesean07, ValiantAbyss (Neutral on 2-A inferno), Dienomite22

Disagree:

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Already discussed this in length, agreed

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me

 

[Dalesean027]

This seems fine

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

2-A chaos world seems fine to me, as does Paradiso being a thousand times larger than it. Though I don't quite see where 2-A Inferno is coming from.

Yeah it's said to be infinite in size, but that's never said in relation to either Paradiso nor the world of chaos iirc, so I don't quite understand why we're assuming it to be larger than Paradiso. If you could pull up the scan for infinite inferno that would help. It's Sheba's guidebook description right?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

2-A chaos world seems fine to me, as does Paradiso being a thousand times larger than it. Though I don't quite see where 2-A Inferno is coming from.

Yeah it's said to be infinite in size, but that's never said in relation to either Paradiso nor the world of chaos iirc, so I don't quite understand why we're assuming it to be larger than Paradiso. If you could pull up the scan for infinite inferno that would help. It's Sheba's guidebook description right?

I'm just itching for the supposed High 1-C or 1-B stuff

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I'm just itching for the supposed High 1-C or 1-B stuff

I don't think that day will ever come my friend

 

[Comicgyal]

2-A chaos world seems fine to me, as does Paradiso being a thousand times larger than it. Though I don't quite see where 2-A Inferno is coming from.

Yeah it's said to be infinite in size, but that's never said in relation to either Paradiso nor the world of chaos iirc, so I don't quite understand why we're assuming it to be larger than Paradiso. If you could pull up the scan for infinite inferno that would help. It's Sheba's guidebook description right?

It’s because both Inferno and Paradiso are considered to be more whole as universes compared to Chaos, and so I interpreted that either their size, or the energy they possess is also 2-A or above.

But yes it’s her guidebook description here.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

It’s because both Inferno and Paradiso are considered to be more whole as universes compared to Chaos, and so I interpreted that either their size, or the energy they possess is also 2-A or above.

I don't necessarily think that because Chaos was fractured making it into a 2-A structure, that it would necessarily translate to Paradiso & Inferno being 2-A structures by default. Paradiso is fine to me because it has a direct statement stating it to be larger in size than Chaos, but Inferno has no such statement.

I guess just count me down for neutral on inferno.

 

[Dienomite22]

I still disagree with 2-A Chaos. I don't think there is anything suggesting Chaos has infinite universes. Unless the statements for the Chaos multiverse are mistranslated to "countless" instead of infinite, Chaos would only be 2-B. Iirc Singularity was individually invading and destroying timelines 1 by 1 it would eventually give Singularity the power to wipe out the Trinity of Realities. However, I still think Paradiso and Inferno are tier 1 structures but tiering standards are dumb and constantly changing so that probably won't get accepted.

 

[Comicgyal]

I still disagree with 2-A Chaos. I don't think there is anything suggesting Chaos has infinite universes. Unless the statements for the Chaos multiverse are mistranslated to "countless" instead of infinite, Chaos would only be 2-B. Iirc Singularity was individually invading and destroying timelines 1 by 1 it would eventually give Singularity the power to wipe out the Trinity of Realities. However, I still think Paradiso and Inferno are tier 1 structures but tiering standards are dumb and constantly changing so that probably won't get accepted.

The translation from Red X gives us:

三位一体世界の中でもここ「混沌界」は無数にある宇宙が重なり合った多層構造を成している
それが「マルチバース」
その宇宙を一つ一つ消滅させてるとしたら.... いや 消滅というのは正確じゃねえな」
正しくはマルチバースを分解して... ひとつに統合しようってのさ
薄くスライスされたハムを細切れにして・・・・・・ デカいミンチの塊にするようにな
それが本当にできたなら 魔界も天界も一瞬で消し飛ばせるそんな力が手に入るだろうぜ


Among the trinity worlds, the "chaos world" is an infinite amount of universes each overlapping each other in a multi-layered structure.
That is the "multiverse"
If you were to annihilate those universes one by one...no, annihilate isn't the exact word.
In reality, you are breaking up the multiverse...and trying to merge it into one
Like taking a thinly slice ham and shredding it...lumping it into a big chunk of mince.
If one were to really do that, they'd have the power to wipe out demons and the heavens in an instant.

The kanji used is 無数, which in it’s more commonly used form stands for infinite number. Japan and their use of the word countless differs from our own.

The Bayonetta 2 screen also says time itself spans infinitely, and Luka mentions that there are Endless possibilities. Luka is more than reliable this game, and Endless is also considered synonymous with infinite on site.

---

Also due to Singularity’s unique power to alter phenomena, it’s entirely possible for
him to return infinite to 1. But Rodin even clarified that beginning statement, that’s he’s moreso breaking the multiverse up and trying to merge it together. Similar to what Jubileus was doing.

 

[Comicgyal]

However, I still think Paradiso and Inferno are tier 1 structures but tiering standards are dumb and constantly changing so that probably won't get accepted.

(We will wank ourselves there sooner or later.)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Its entirely viable to argue that a being with tier 2 AP and infinite/immeasurable speed can destroy a tier 2 structure of infinite size in a finite timeframe

 

[Dienomite22]

The translation from Red X gives us:



The kanji used is 無数, which in it’s more commonly used form stands for infinite number. Japan and their use of the word countless differs from our own.

The Bayonetta 2 screen also says time itself spans infinitely, and Luka mentions that there are Endless possibilities. Luka is more than reliable this game, and Endless is also considered synonymous with infinite on site.

---

Also due to Singularity’s unique power to alter phenomena, it’s entirely possible for
him to return infinite to 1. But Rodin even clarified that beginning statement, that’s he’s moreso breaking the multiverse up and trying to merge it together. Similar to what Jubileus was doing.

I agree with the CRT as long as infinite is what was in the original Japanese version. That's something that wasn't clear in the blog post but is really important for getting 2-A.

Bayonetta 2 opening isn't something I think is important for the CRT. I believe that line was merely referencing the time loop connecting 1 and 2.

(We will wank ourselves there sooner or later.)

pls do

 

[Dienomite22]

Its entirely viable to argue that a being with tier 2 AP and infinite/immeasurable speed can destroy a tier 2 structure of infinite size in a finite timeframe

Indeed but the method Singularity used made that seem more questionable. Like if he was everywhere in every universe in the multiverse all at the same time sure but it's one by one for him and the homunculi.

 

[Comicgyal]

I’ll correct it in the blog

pls do

(I still have the higher dimensional Angel statements, but site standards makes everything so difficult)

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

They call me party pooper...

I'll come back to this later

 

[Everything12]

The kanji used is 無数, which in it’s more commonly used form stands for infinite number. Japan and their use of the word countless differs from our own.

The Bayonetta 2 screen also says time itself spans infinitely, and Luka mentions that there are Endless possibilities. Luka is more than reliable this game, and Endless is also considered synonymous with infinite on site.

The term 無数 can be interpreted as countless or infinite, and is more likely to mean countless, especially as infinite has another term much more fitting, and so countless is what the Wiki defaults to with this term.

Similar, endless can mean infinite, but when every other explanation uses countless it makes more sense to default to 2-B than 2-A.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The term 無数 can be interpreted as countless or infinite, and is more likely to mean countless, especially as infinite has another term much more fitting, and so countless is what the Wiki defaults to with this term.

Similar, endless can mean infinite, but when every other explanation uses countless it makes more sense to default to 2-B than 2-A.

Problem with that though is it makes more sense to use infinite rather than countless seeing as both Inferno and Paradiso are infinite in size and Chaos is the same size as those realms, just broken up into an infinite amount of smaller universes

 

[Everything12]

Problem with that though is it makes more sense to use infinite rather than countless seeing as both Inferno and Paradiso are infinite in size and Chaos is the same size as those realms, just broken up into an infinite countless amount of smaller universes

I haven't seen a single scan that refers to them as infinite number of universes, regardless of whether Inferno or the World of Chaos is 2-A or not.

 

[Lewis]

I'm listening to Lady Gaga's music and I agree with this thread without hesitation.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I haven't seen a single scan that refers to them as infinite number of universes, regardless of whether Inferno or the World of Chaos is 2-A or not.

My guy, you just qoted the scan that refers to them as an infinite/countless number of universes, i just explained why infinite makes more sense than countless

 

[Comicgyal]

The term 無数 can be interpreted as countless or infinite, and is more likely to mean countless, especially as infinite has another term much more fitting, and so countless is what the Wiki defaults to with this term.

Similar, endless can mean infinite, but when every other explanation uses countless it makes more sense to default to 2-B than 2-A.

While there are other kanji for infinite, when something is being described to be an infinite number, 無数 can also used. We then have to look for other context to support either definitions, to which we have Luka saying there’s endless possibilities. Which fits into the English localization of Aesirs statement, which says he observed infinite possibilities as well.

 

[Comicgyal]

Also since Bayonetta 1 and 2 are supposed to be seperate universes, the statement of time reflecting infinitely isn’t describing a supposed time loop connecting the universes. Which I believe is just another supporting statement.

 

[Dienomite22]

Also since Bayonetta 1 and 2 are supposed to be seperate universes, the statement of time reflecting infinitely isn’t describing a supposed time loop connecting the universes. Which I believe is just another supporting statement.

Bayonetta 1 and 2 are the same universe but for some reason have their own separate branches that are almost identical to them individually except Singularity interfered in one of them.

Bayonetta 1 and 2 are intrinsically connected. In order for there to be a Bayonetta 2, Bayonetta 1 had to have happened and vice versa. Otherwise, they wouldn't be connected at all nor influence each other timeline wise.

 

[Comicgyal]

Bayonetta 1 and 2 are the same universe but for some reason have their own separate branches that are almost identical to them individually except Singularity interfered in one of them.

Bayonetta 1 and 2 are intrinsically connected. In order for there to be a Bayonetta 2, Bayonetta 1 had to have happened and vice versa. Otherwise, they wouldn't be connected at all nor influence each other timeline wise.

I’m not quite sure about this one, due to them all having different Madamas. Bayonetta 1s events is the starting point for all 3 Bayos, but Bayonetta 2’s events follow the original Bayo much closer than 3 does. (as far as we know, since bayo 3 Bayonetta has Lokis verse cards)

I think the intention was to make all three of them different people, spawning from the events of Bayonetta 1. So while they are linked in that case, they’re still different universes with just very similar events. Which Is why I don’t believe the Bayonetta 2 bayo we see, is in a time loop with our Bayonetta 1 bayo.

 

[Comicgyal]

The term 無数 can be interpreted as countless or infinite, and is more likely to mean countless, especially as infinite has another term much more fitting, and so countless is what the Wiki defaults to with this term.

Similar, endless can mean infinite, but when every other explanation uses countless it makes more sense to default to 2-B than 2-A.

This scan does have the very blatant kanji for infinity however, so we can just focus it instead of the one given to us in Bayonetta 3.

 

[Dienomite22]

I’m not quite sure about this one, due to them all having different Madamas. Bayonetta 1s events is the starting point for all 3 Bayos, but Bayonetta 2’s events follow the original Bayo much closer than 3 does. (as far as we know, since bayo 3 Bayonetta has Lokis verse cards)

I think the intention was to make all three of them different people, spawning from the events of Bayonetta 1. So while they are linked in that case, they’re still different universes with just very similar events. Which Is why I don’t believe the Bayonetta 2 bayo we see, is in a time loop with our Bayonetta 1 bayo.

I see. That makes kinda sense that a statement that says "In a universe of Light and Dark, where time reflects infinitely" the game opens up in an alternate timeline version of 2. That shows that "time reflects infinitely" is attributed to alternate timelines reflecting each other. At least that's what I get out of it.

 

[Dienomite22]

With that being said, I still think Bayonetta 1, 2 and 3 are all the same Bayonetta in one timeline, and the Bayonetta 2 and 3 Bayonetta in Bayonetta 3 are alternate timeline versions.

 

[Comicgyal]

Yes, that’s the interpretation that I got out of it too.

With that being said, I still think Bayonetta 1, 2 and 3 are all the same Bayonetta in one timeline, and the Bayonetta 2 and 3 Bayonetta in Bayonetta 3 are alternate timeline versions.

This is fine by me, and I would have made a profile with all three of them together, but I don’t think most agree with this.

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

I'm just itching for the supposed High 1-C or 1-B stuff

?

 

[Comicgyal]

Any other thoughts?

 

[SonicBayo1999]

My name is a dead give away lol

 

[OmniMagician]

I agree (if it's not too late)

 

[Comicgyal]

if there’s no further disagreements, this thread should be fine to close.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I have cum back to disagree

 

[SonicBayo1999]

I have cum back to disagree

 

[Comicgyal]

Looks good to me

Pretty sure we’re done here, can you close this?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I will go ahead and close this all up. Thank you all for helping out.