Battle of the charging beasts (Dire Boar vs Bouncer)

[Peppersalt43]

8-C versions used
Bouncer is the Big Daddy fighting
Base Speed Equalized
Fight takes place in a desert, 10 meters apart

Large Father : 0
Big Pig : 7
Incon : 0

Story below

While traversing through Rapture, Elizabeth once again found herself chased down by a Big Daddy, this one hosting a drill on his hand. Multiple turns and unsuccessful hiding spots led her to a dead end. With nowhere to go, she opened a tear and escaped, re-appearing in a desert. Seeing the Big Daddy charging behind her, she quickly hid, the beast looking around for his target.

As she let out a breath of relief, she felt heavy breathing down her neck. She painfully looked behind herself, seeing a large boar staring at her angrily. She quickly jumped out of cover, revealing herself along with the boar to the Big Daddy. The large beasts stared at each other for a while, forgetting the prey they were hunting down as they charged at each other.

 

[Imaginym]

Is this an Alpha Series Big Daddy?

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Skilled in hand-to-hand combat, Skilled with a variety of ranged and melee weapons, Resistance to high pressure, Alpha Series Big Daddies have Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, and Electricity Manipulation

Anyway, let's get to the more problematic part, & analyze what the Bouncer's ratings is....

Spoiler: Bouncer Statistics Analysis

A Big Daddy apparently killed Booker, who's profile says:
Attack Potency: Building level (Devil's Kiss is comparable to the Fireman's power. Can kill Handymen, who are physically superior to Firemen), Higher with Return to Sender and Gear

Bioshock: Fireman Burns

vsbattles.fandom.com

Scaling to setting something on fire? So this is a heat feat, meaning it's not necessarily relevant for physical durability? What about Booker's other stats?
Striking Strength: Building Class (Can send Firemen flying with a single punch, can kill Handymen with physical attacks), Higher with Gear
Durability: Building level, higher with Return to Sender and Gear

& despite that Firemen are a scaling point, including for being sent flying with a punch, they lack a profile. Do we have a reason to scale Firemen's AP with fire to their Durability?
Because if not, that "1302263561.58 Joules or 0.3112484611806883 Tons of TNT, (Building level)" rating probably isn't useable.

But while a Big Daddy does scale for killing Booker, they also scale for damaging Jack, so what about him?
Attack Potency: Building level (Able to damage Big Daddies with his wrench alone, Stronger than the likes of Sander Cohen, Defeated an ADAM enhanced Fontaine),

Sander's justification don't seem too helpful, so, Frank....?
Attack Potency: Building level (Superior to weaker Splicers, at least comparable to if not stronger than Sander Cohen, stronger than his human self which was strong enough to beat Elizabeth to death) | Building level (His powers should be comparable to Jack's. Planned to destroy Tenenbaum's Sanctuary)

Well, he's superior to the weaker Splicers....
Attack Potency: Wall level+ (Spider Splicers are among the weaker Splicer variants, and they are capable of ripping through steel that can withstand pressure 6 miles underwater), Building level Brute Splicers (Capable of fighting on par with Big Daddies)

Well, this lead nowhere.
There's a kinda loopy scaling to a 1302263561.58 Joules or 0.3112484611806883 Tons of TNT heat feat, & I dunno what Firemen in Bioshock are, so I dunno if physicals can be scaled to their feat of setting stuff on fire.

....Okay, what about the Fhorge?

Spoiler: Analysis for Fhorge's statistics

Building level (As a CR 9[6] creature in 3.5e they're on par with casters who can cast Cone of Cold)

D&D Calc: Cone of Cold

vsbattles.fandom.com

21,688,065 * 110 = 2.386e9 Joules, Building level.
Mage Uses Cone of Cold: 0.57 Tons of TNT, Building level

So BOTH of them scale to temperature feats, & I dunno why these would scale to their physicals?
"BRUH".WAV.DOC.WEBM

Okay, is there a basis to scale to this physicals for D&D?
On the bright side, the Fhorge is the third of 3 keys, & should be superior to the 2nd Key, & the 1st key, I'd assume, especially given its much higher CR.
At least Wall level, likely Small Building level (Should be as strong as their regular counterpart)


Attack Potency: At least Wall level, likely Small Building level (As a CR 4[1] creature in 3.5e they should be superior to the likes of the Rothé) | At least Wall level, likely Small Building level (Should be stronger then a regular dire boar) | Building level (As a CR 9[6] creature in 3.5e they're on par with casters who can cast Cone of Cold)

A Rothé?Attack Potency: At least Wall level (As a CR 2[1] monster in 3.5e they should be on par with casters who can use Burning Hands), likely Small Building level (Via this calc)

D&D Calc: An Enraged Cow

vsbattles.fandom.com

"Revised high end works although using both revised ends in a "At least 9-B, possibly/likely 9-A" way is fine too if you'd prefer"
"A Cow Gets Angry (High-End, Revised): 5.52 kg of TNT, Small Building level" ( 23,095,680 joules .)

It's about 103.26x weaker than the Cone of Cold feat, but....

Well, a Dire Boar scales above that, a Thunderfury Boar is above that, & a Fhorge should be above that, especially considering a Rothe is CR 2, the Thunderfury Boar (The 2nd key.) is CR 4, & a Fhorge is CR 9, so it's probably a huge difference.

'course, the gap between Baseline Small Building Level & Baseline Building Level is 50x, as Small Building Level begins at 20,920,000 Joules (Which that calc is BARELY above.) & ends at 1,046,000,000 joules. Even with that 5.52 kg/23,095,680 joule rating coming from a CR 2 that a CR 4 scales above that another CR 4 scales above, & Fhorge being CR 9 to scale above THAT.... It may not be enough, depending on HOW much higher a Fhorge is.

If we treated the CRs as numbers. 23,095,680 joules (Rothé) * 2 (Dire Boar), * 1.5(?)(Thunderfury Boar, same CR, but higher to an unknown extent.) * 2.5 (Fhore) = 173,217,600 joules. only about a 6th of Baseline Building Level.

Obviously, this isn't a CRT, & those may not be exact numbers for the multipliers; CR 20 in D&D are usually MUCH more than 10x as strong as CR2; A CR 20 vs a CR2 is probably like, IDK, a God vs a Goblin. A Fhogre could be higher based just on scaling chains alone.


But either way, this match has a problem, in that both sides scale to a temperature feat, & IDK if it's valid to scale those temperature feats to the physical statistics of the stuff they scale to.
So unless we accept those ratings, both of these two are baseline.
If we DO accept those temperature-feat-based ratings, though? Well then, it's:

Bouncer:
1,302,263,561.58 Joules or 0.3112484611806883 Tons of TNT, (Building level)
Vs
Fhorge:
2,384,880,000 joules or 0.57 Tons of TNT, (Building level)

Which, in those temperature-scaling circumstances, would put the Fhorge at about 1.83x stronger than what the Bouncer scales to, but a Big Daddy is scaling above killing someone who could hurt those who did the feat, whereas the Fhorge is only scaling "comparably" to Wizards who can cast Cone of Cold, so the Bouncer MIGHT be able to make up for the gap through its scaling chain.
(As opposed to them just being baseline, lol.)

I'll probably get back to this on the matter of the Fhorge's Powers & Abilities.
Anyone well-informed on the P&A &/or behaviour of Bouncer Big Daddies?

Anyway, I hope this helps, all!

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Is this an Alpha Series Big Daddy?

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Skilled in hand-to-hand combat, Skilled with a variety of ranged and melee weapons, Resistance to high pressure, Alpha Series Big Daddies have Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, and Electricity Manipulation

Anyway, let's get to the more problematic part, & analyze what the Bouncer's ratings is....

Spoiler: Bouncer Statistics Analysis

A Big Daddy apparently killed Booker, who's profile says:
Attack Potency: Building level (Devil's Kiss is comparable to the Fireman's power. Can kill Handymen, who are physically superior to Firemen), Higher with Return to Sender and Gear

Bioshock: Fireman Burns

vsbattles.fandom.com

Scaling to setting something on fire? So this is a heat feat, meaning it's not necessarily relevant for physical durability? What about Booker's other stats?
Striking Strength: Building Class (Can send Firemen flying with a single punch, can kill Handymen with physical attacks), Higher with Gear
Durability: Building level, higher with Return to Sender and Gear

& despite that Firemen are a scaling point, including for being sent flying with a punch, they lack a profile. Do we have a reason to scale Firemen's AP with fire to their Durability?
Because if not, that "1302263561.58 Joules or 0.3112484611806883 Tons of TNT, (Building level)" rating probably isn't useable.

But while a Big Daddy does scale for killing Booker, they also scale for damaging Jack, so what about him?
Attack Potency: Building level (Able to damage Big Daddies with his wrench alone, Stronger than the likes of Sander Cohen, Defeated an ADAM enhanced Fontaine),

Sander's justification don't seem too helpful, so, Frank....?
Attack Potency: Building level (Superior to weaker Splicers, at least comparable to if not stronger than Sander Cohen, stronger than his human self which was strong enough to beat Elizabeth to death) | Building level (His powers should be comparable to Jack's. Planned to destroy Tenenbaum's Sanctuary)

Well, he's superior to the weaker Splicers....
Attack Potency: Wall level+ (Spider Splicers are among the weaker Splicer variants, and they are capable of ripping through steel that can withstand pressure 6 miles underwater), Building level Brute Splicers (Capable of fighting on par with Big Daddies)

Well, this lead nowhere.
There's a kinda loopy scaling to a 1302263561.58 Joules or 0.3112484611806883 Tons of TNT heat feat, & I dunno what Firemen in Bioshock are, so I dunno if physicals can be scaled to their feat of setting stuff on fire.

Spoiler: Analysis for Fhogre's statistics

....Okay, what about the Fhogre?
Building level (As a CR 9[6] creature in 3.5e they're on par with casters who can cast Cone of Cold)

D&D Calc: Cone of Cold

vsbattles.fandom.com

21,688,065 * 110 = 2.386e9 Joules, Building level.
Mage Uses Cone of Cold: 0.57 Tons of TNT, Building level

So BOTH of them scale to temperature feats, & I dunno why these would scale to their physicals?
"BRUH".WAV.DOC.WEBM

Okay, is there a basis to scale to this physicals for D&D?
On the bright side, the Fhogre is the third of 3 keys, & should be superior to the 2nd Key, & the 1st key, I'd assume, especially given its much higher CR.
At least Wall level, likely Small Building level (Should be as strong as their regular counterpart)


Attack Potency: At least Wall level, likely Small Building level (As a CR 4[1] creature in 3.5e they should be superior to the likes of the Rothé) | At least Wall level, likely Small Building level (Should be stronger then a regular dire boar) | Building level (As a CR 9[6] creature in 3.5e they're on par with casters who can cast Cone of Cold)

A Rothé?Attack Potency: At least Wall level (As a CR 2[1] monster in 3.5e they should be on par with casters who can use Burning Hands), likely Small Building level (Via this calc)

D&D Calc: An Enraged Cow

vsbattles.fandom.com

"Revised high end works although using both revised ends in a "At least 9-B, possibly/likely 9-A" way is fine too if you'd prefer"
"A Cow Gets Angry (High-End, Revised): 5.52 kg of TNT, Small Building level" ( 23,095,680 joules .)

It's about 103.26x weaker than the Cone of Cold feat, but....

Well, a Dire Boar scales above that, a Thunderfury Boar is above that, & a Fhogre should be above that, especially considering a Rothe is CR 2, the Thunderfury Boar (The 2nd key.) is CR 4, & a Fhogre is CR 9, so it's probably a huge difference.

'course, the gap between Baseline Small Building Level & Baseline Building Level is 50x, as Small Building Level begins at 20,920,000 Joules (Which that calc is BARELY above.) & ends at 1,046,000,000 joules. Even with that 5.52 kg/23,095,680 joule rating coming from a CR 2 that a CR 4 scales above that another CR 4 scales above, & Fhogre being CR 9 to scale above THAT.... It may not be enough, depending on HOW much higher a Fhogre is.

If we treated the CRs as numbers. 23,095,680 joules (Rothé) * 2 (Dire Boar), * 1.5(?)(Thunderfury Boar, same CR, but higher to an unknown extent.) * 2.5 (Fhore) = 173,217,600 joules. only about a 6th of Baseline Building Level.

Obviously, this isn't a CRT, & those may not be exact numbers for the multipliers; CR 20 in D&D are usually MUCH more than 10x as strong as CR2; A CR 20 vs a CR2 is probably like, IDK, a God vs a Goblin. A Fhogre could be higher based just on scaling chains alone.


But either way, this match has a problem, in that both sides scale to a temperature feat, & IDK if it's valid to scale those temperature feats to the physical statistics of the stuff they scale to.
So unless we accept those ratings, both of these two are baseline.
If we DO accept those temperature-feat-based ratings, though? Well then, it's:

Bouncer:
1,302,263,561.58 Joules or 0.3112484611806883 Tons of TNT, (Building level)
Vs
Fhogre:
2,384,880,000 joules or 0.57 Tons of TNT, (Building level)

Which, in those temperature-scaling circumstances, would put the Fhogre at about 1.83x stronger than what the Bouncer scales to, but a Big Daddy is scaling above killing someone who could hurt those who did the feat, whereas the Fhogre is only scaling "comparably" to Wizards who can cast Cone of Cold, so the Bouncer MIGHT be able to make up for the gap through its scaling chain.
(As opposed to them just being baseline, lol.)

I'll probably get back to this on the matter of the Fhogre's Powers & Abilities.
Anyone well-informed on the P&A &/or behaviour of Bouncer Big Daddies?

Anyway, I hope this helps, all!

D&D's temperature feat is the result of a shared energy system. It scales to physicals.

I will say that Big Daddy is more than likely the more skilled of the two here. If it comes down to a slight AP gap, he probably takes it regardless.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I will say that Big Daddy is more than likely the more skilled of the two here. If it comes down to a slight AP gap, he probably takes it regardless.

Idk from what I'm understanding it'll just go for melee and the Fhogre is fairly skilled there considering it has both Improved Critical and Weapon Focus
Plus it has a massive LS edge which means once it it gets a hold of the Big Daddy it's stuck taking damage from it (Even if you wanna reduce the LS of the Fhogre by like what a third to account for it being for pushing and give Big Daddy near peak Class 5 then the Fhogre has over a ton edge in that area, and that's not mentioning rage boost), so I don't see why Fhogre can't keep with it skill wise and then let its statistical edge carry it

 

[Imaginym]

D&D's temperature feat is the result of a shared energy system. It scales to physicals.

I will say that Big Daddy is more than likely the more skilled of the two here. If it comes down to a slight AP gap, he probably takes it regardless.

Well, if Bioshock doesn't have a basis to scale Firemen's feats to physicals, then the Bouncer will be Baseline, right?
Which is 1,046,000,000 joules.
Fhorge, with scaling, is 2,384,880,000 joules.
About a 2.28x difference.

Even if the Bouncer is scaling to the temperature rating of the Firemen feat, it's still a 1.83x difference in the Fhorge's favour.

The Fhorge might also come close in skill, given this: Martial Arts (Via Improved Critical and Weapon Focus[6]; Explained here[7] and here[8])
Anyone got the Fiend Folio quote?
It also has Rage Power (Shown here[6]) (Also, why does the scan mispell it as "Fhorge" twice, lol?), so that gap can be magnified.

Plus, the Bouncer's skill may not help that much in melee, when the Fhorge has Lifting Strength at Class 25 ("19.05088 tons". That Metric Tonnes?) (Without Rage.) to Class 50 ("32.658651 tons".) (With Rage.), compared to the Bouncer's unsourced Class 5.

Meaning in the best case scenario (For the Bouncer.), the Bouncer gets outmatched in LS by somewhere between 3.81x & 6.53x.
& in the worst case scenario, since Baseline Class 5 is 1 ton, the Bouncer would be getting outclassed by as many tons as the Fhorge is scaling to; Over 19x times, or over 32x.

So the Bouncer almost certainly won't be able to grab & stop the Fhorge's charges, contrary to expectations, & trying to grab it by the tusks or teeth, will probably result in the Fhorge throwing HIM aside, not the other way around.

Not to mention, while the Bouncer has "High" Stamina with no justification, the Fhorge has High Stamina, with the justification being "such a tenacious combatant that it is able to fight without penalty even while disabled or dying". So I think it'll outperform in that department, too.

& I'm not too sure if the Bouncer has any range it can & will use often & well enough to gain a big enough advantage.

So yeah. I'm voting for the Fhorge. Unless the Bouncer can get above in rating via scaling, the Fhorge is roughly twice is strong BEFORE Rage Power's effect, comes close in skill, has a huge LS advantage, & IMHO, matches or outclasses in Stamina.

 

[Tllmbrg]

It also has Rage Power (Shown here[6]) (Also, why does the scan mispell it as "Fhorge" twice, lol?), so that gap can be magnified..

....
It might've been me who mispelled the name when making the page

 

[Imaginym]

....
It might've been me who mispelled the name when making the page

Oh dear, lol.
Considering the name is on the page as "Fhogre" 8 times.... That may be an "8-fold times big oof", so to speak, no?
Although, inaccurate as it might end up being, I will say that "Fhogre" seems better than 'Fhorge" to me; :former sounds like a combination of "hog" & "ogre", which fits the idea of an ugly, vicious battle-hog-beast thingy. The latter sounds like a bizarre type of big weapon creation furnace (Forge), lol.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Welp I edited the page to correct that

 

[Tllmbrg]

The Fhogre might also come close in skill, given this: Martial Arts (Via Improved Critical and Weapon Focus[6]; Explained here[7] and here[8])
Anyone got the Fiend Folio quote?

I upated the page to fix the broken scan

 

[Imaginym]

I upated the page to fix the broken scan

Are the linked images the scans from Fiend Folio 3.5e Page 72 that is the Citation cited for the Justification for Improved Critical and Weapon Focus?
(If so, yay!)

 

[Tllmbrg]

Are the linked images the scans from Fiend Folio 3.5e Page 72 that is the Citation cited for the Justification for Improved Critical and Weapon Focus?
(If so, yay!)

Yah
Also the stamina one

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Well, if Bioshock doesn't have a basis to scale Firemen's feats to physicals, then the Bouncer will be Baseline, right?
Which is 1,046,000,000 joules.
Fhorge, with scaling, is 2,384,880,000 joules.
About a 2.28x difference.

Even if the Bouncer is scaling to the temperature rating of the Firemen feat, it's still a 1.83x difference in the Fhorge's favour.

The Fhorge might also come close in skill, given this: Martial Arts (Via Improved Critical and Weapon Focus[6]; Explained here[7] and here[8])
Anyone got the Fiend Folio quote?
It also has Rage Power (Shown here[6]) (Also, why does the scan mispell it as "Fhorge" twice, lol?), so that gap can be magnified.

Plus, the Bouncer's skill may not help that much in melee, when the Fhorge has Lifting Strength at Class 25 ("19.05088 tons". That Metric Tonnes?) (Without Rage.) to Class 50 ("32.658651 tons".) (With Rage.), compared to the Bouncer's unsourced Class 5.

Meaning in the best case scenario (For the Bouncer.), the Bouncer gets outmatched in LS by somewhere between 3.81x & 6.53x.
& in the worst case scenario, since Baseline Class 5 is 1 ton, the Bouncer would be getting outclassed by as many tons as the Fhorge is scaling to; Over 19x times, or over 32x.

So the Bouncer almost certainly won't be able to grab & stop the Fhorge's charges, contrary to expectations, & trying to grab it by the tusks or teeth, will probably result in the Fhorge throwing HIM aside, not the other way around.

Not to mention, while the Bouncer has "High" Stamina with no justification, the Fhorge has High Stamina, with the justification being "such a tenacious combatant that it is able to fight without penalty even while disabled or dying". So I think it'll outperform in that department, too.

& I'm not too sure if the Bouncer has any range it can & will use often & well enough to gain a big enough advantage.

So yeah. I'm voting for the Fhorge. Unless the Bouncer can get above in rating via scaling, the Fhorge is roughly twice is strong BEFORE Rage Power's effect, comes close in skill, has a huge LS advantage, & IMHO, matches or outclasses in Stamina.

For the moment, given it is linked on the page, let us assume Bioshock has a feat that can scale to physicals.

The skill of the Fhorge isn't particularly noteworthy, I'm familiar with those abilities in D&D. Those feats are typical for veteran soldiers and the like. Though, I must admit, I'm not exactly an expert on Bioshock, so I may overestimate their skill capacity.

LS is a fair point, Big Daddy is likely to be tossed around fairly easily, even if he isn't directly wounded (significantly, anyway) by it.

You make good points. I'll vote Fhorge for now, too, then.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Anyone well-informed on the P&A &/or behaviour of Bouncer Big Daddies?

That would be me. I'm currently in Fontaine Futuristics in Bioshock 2 and I've already encountered every enemy in the game

Bouncers will start with a charge attack when in LoS with an enemy and will run at very fast speeds at their target otherwise

Not to mention, while the Bouncer has "High" Stamina with no justification

Bouncer's stamina (Specifically him. Besides alpha series, all the other Big Daddies use ranged weapons) stems from its attacks. It can run and charge infinitely and they will only stop after hitting an object or an enemy. Plus there's actually a human in there and whoever they are is running and charging in a big diver suit. Even Subject Delta, a main character, is slow AF

Is this an Alpha Series Big Daddy?

No, Bouncers are their own thing. Funny thing is, they are technically the Beta Series since the Alpha Series is a failed experiment

Also don't underestimate the Bouncer's LS. All Big Daddies have the ability to shove Subject Delta, even while frozen, to the point that he crumples. Subject Delta is an Alpha Series and he's just slightly lighter than the average Big Daddy. In other words, they can push their own bodyweight.

 

[Imaginym]

That would be me. I'm currently in Fontaine Futuristics in Bioshock 2 and I've already encountered every enemy in the game

Bouncer's will start with a charge attack when in LoS with an enemy and will run at very fast speeds at their target otherwise

Bouncer's stamina (Specifically him. Besides alpha series, all the other Big Daddies use ranged weapons) stems from its attacks. It can run and charge infinitely and they will only stop after hitting an object or an enemy. Plus there's actually a human in there and whoever they are is running and charging in a big diver suit. Even Subject Delta, a main character, is slow AF

No, Bouncers are their own thing. Funny thing is, they are technically the Beta Series since the Alpha Series is a failed experiment

Thanks for this information.

Also don't underestimate the Bouncer's LS. All Big Daddies have the ability to shove Subject Delta, even while frozen, to the point that he crumples. Subject Delta is an Alpha Series and he's just slightly lighter than the average Big Daddy. In other words, they can push their own bodyweight.

How much is that mass? Is it more than the maximum of Class 5 (Class 5 ranges from 1,000 to 5,000 kg), their supposed Lifting Strength?

 

[Peppersalt43]

Thanks for this information.

How much is that mass? Is it more than the maximum of Class 5 (Class 5 ranges from 1,000 to 5,000 kg), their supposed Lifting Strength?

Not exactly

The average diving suit is 86 kg (Courtesy to wikipedia). Due to the size of big daddies being double the size of an ordinary human, one can assume they weigh double meaning 172 kg. A minigun, one of the few of Subject Delta's arsenal is that is in the real world weights about 39 kg. Most of his weapons have the same size except his hack tool and he carries about 8 weapons so 39*7= 273. Oxygen tanks weigh about 59 kg and when doubled (Due to size and workplace) it should weigh about 118 kg. The average human weighs around 62 kg and when doubled, it's 124 kg. It takes at least 3400 Joules to break through ice. I do not know what the surface width of a big daddy arm is but just so you know, the total hovers somewhere around baseline

This isn't accounting ammo by the way

 

[Imaginym]

Not exactly

The average diving suit is 86 kg (Courtesy to wikipedia). Due to the size of big daddies being double the size of an ordinary human, one can assume they weigh double meaning 172 kg.

IIRC, per Square Cube Law, if something 3 dimensional's size is increased by a multiplier, then the increase in mass (As well as the increase in volume.) are each/both the cube of the multiplier of to the size.
So 2x bigger means 8x more massive & voluminous, IIRC. 86 kg * 8 = 688 kg.

A minigun, one of the few of Subject Delta's arsenal is that is in the real world weights about 39 kg. Most of his weapons have the same size except his hack tool and he carries about 8 weapons so 39*7= 273. Oxygen tanks weigh about 59 kg and when doubled (Due to size and workplace) it should weigh about 118 kg. The average human weighs around 62 kg and when doubled, it's 124 kg. It takes at least 3400 Joules to break through ice. I do not know what the surface width of a big daddy arm is but just so you know, the total hovers somewhere around baseline

Baseline for what? I assume you mean for the arm.
Accounting for SCL again, that's 8 times for a size doubled oxygen tank (& is the 59 kg for an individual tank, or the total mass of 2? If individual, does the Bouncer have more than 1?)
Anyway, 59 * 8 = 472
Likewise for doubling human mass. 62 * 8 = 496
688 + 273 + 39 + 472 + 496 =
1968, so 1,968 kg for a rough estimation of the mass of a Bouncer Big Daddy, seems like. (Though, does this account for its drill?)

By just the numbers done there, that's about.... Slightly less than 40% of the way to maximum Class 5. Good on them to be able to lift themselves & still have the strength to spare. Do they have other LS feats? Because if not, they're probably getting outlifted by the Fhorge nonetheless; 1,968 kg is a lot, but 1,000 kg is a tonne, & the Fhogre's LS without rage is over 19 tonnes.
Still, whether or not it helps the Bouncer win this match, it's good to be accurate, I feel.

Forgive my asking, but why bring up the joules to break through ice?

This isn't accounting ammo by the way

Fair enough.

Thanks again for this help! & I hope I've helped at least a bit, too!

 

[Peppersalt43]

Forgive my asking, but why bring up the joules to break through ice?

Because you can reverse engineer it to the amount of constant pressure/force he needs to break through the ice which can result in extra mass. Struggling out of something takes LS, right?

 

[Imaginym]

Because you can reverse engineer it to the amount of constant pressure/force he needs to break through the ice which can result in extra mass.

Ah, I see. Dunno if we allow that for our Calculations, but good to know.

Struggling out of something takes LS, right?

In theory, unless breaking it via Striking Strength/Attack Potency is involved, I think.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Oh well, I counted all the votes. I hope I can conclude this quickly

 

[Sonicflare9]

big pig fra

 

[Peppersalt43]

Counted and thank you

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

sigh Just 3 more votes. Come on...

 

[Starter_Pack]

Steamed Ham FRA.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

good bird.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Counted and please, 2 more votes

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump, come on, it's really close

 

[Peppersalt43]

sigh Bump

 

[Popted2]

Boar FRA

 

[Oleggator]

Big pig FRA

 

[Peppersalt43]

THANK YOU! THANK YOU EVERYONE!

GRACE!

 

[Peppersalt43]

Grace is over, this can be added now.

End of story

The Big Daddy was strong and yet as it was swung around in the boar's maw, it could only helplessly hit at its opponent. A loud crack indicated its death as the boar dropped its victim. Elizabeth was terrified and yet, slightly relieved to see her previous assailant fall. Suddenly, an idea appeared in her head and she quickly called forth the dire boar.

Atlas stood by the door, a radio linked to a microphone outside. His men stayed beside him, in the case of betrayal. Static began clear away from the radio as Elizabeth's voice grew clearer. The mobsters silenced each other, eager to hear the news.

"I got the message from Suchong! They're instructions for the Ace!" she said, the door opening as soon as she said it. Atlas quickly grabbed her by the wrist before snagging the paper from her hands. Tossing her aside, he opened up the folded sheet, reading it aloud to his men. "It says here... bacon" he said in confusion. Elizabeth quickly opened a tear right in front of herself, the dire boar charging in, previously being dropped into an abandoned meat factory. The smell of its dead brethren filled it with a primal rage as it crushed through the mobsters, tearing them apart and crushing them with its jaws.

In the chaos, Elizabeth sneaked into one of the rooms, finding the little sister she had come to save in the first place. "Come on Sally, we're getting out of here" she said before pulling her out of the room. As the two make it to the exit, they turned around, finding Atlas, the only one left alive, holding a spear gun against the dire boar. "Come here you foul monster! Come and meet your end!" he said.

The beast turned towards him, ignoring his threats. Rage filled its eyes as it snorted out loud, its foreleg scraping the floor. Focusing its attention on the last man standing, the boar... charged