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Battle of Grey Haired Men.

azontr said:
Also, despite how absolutely garbage Kojiro's profile is, it literally says that his predictions work on fighting styles he is unfamiliar with. I don't know if you read that, I hope you didn't, I don't want you to see that abomination of god called a profile, but, it's there. So the gun and H2H fighting style Zain has is quite literally useless.
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NLFish to assume Kojirou to predict non melee weapon based fighting styles. There's a limit to such ludicrous claims. Besides that, how would Kojirou know that Zain has forcefields around his arms or that Zain would grapple his katana or shoot it out of his hands? You're just wanking without evidence at this point. Predicting a fighting style he's never seen is no biggie either, he would be able to predict about Poseidon's attacks because tridents are mostly thrusting and slashing weapons. He figured that out through logic. But how would that logic be applied to tech unheard of? Does he predict there's a forcefield around Zain's arm, can he predict that he would be shot at with a barrage of projectiles instead of many small shots? Please stop treating Sasaki Kojirou similar to Reinhard. You're wanking similar to how people wank Reinhard, that he could wish for any type of blessing just like now, you're wanking that Kojiro would predict what silat, Muay Thai, karate, taekwondo, Wing Chun and etc including gun fu would do. Burden of proof is what I call for such ludicrous claims. Predicting something he never seen only works on melee weapons. Not brawling and grappling.
 
Greatsage13th said:
NLFish to assume Kojirou to predict non melee weapon based fighting styles. There's a limit to such ludicrous claims. Besides that, how would Kojirou know that Zain has forcefields around his arms or that Zain would grapple his katana or shoot it out of his hands? You're just wanking without evidence at this point. Predicting a fighting style he's never seen is no biggie either, he would be able to predict about Poseidon's attacks because tridents are mostly thrusting and slashing weapons. He figured that out through logic. But how would that logic be applied to tech unheard of? Does he predict there's a forcefield around Zain's arm, can he predict that he would be shot at with a barrage of projectiles instead of many small shots? Please stop treating Sasaki Kojirou similar to Reinhard. You're wanking similar to how people wank Reinhard, that he could wish for any type of blessing just like now, you're wanking that Kojiro would predict what silat, Muay Thai, karate, taekwondo, Wing Chun and etc including gun fu would do. Burden of proof is what I call for such ludicrous claims. Predicting something he never seen only works on melee weapons. Not brawling and grappling.
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...Because he actually could do that? Because that's literally how the ability works? You realize that Kojiro has never fought anybody with trident or anybody that uses a spear in his life before his fight with Poseidon and still predicted him, right? Like, it's literally how the ability works. Quite literally nothing insinuates that Kojiro's Thousand-Image Defense would not cover martial arts he has never seen before as, through Thousand-Image Defense, he's going to see them in his head, countless upon countless numbers of times.
 
Greatsage13th said:
Predicting a fighting style he's never seen is no biggie either, he would be able to predict about Poseidon's attacks because tridents are mostly thrusting and slashing weapons. He figured that out through logic.
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But he DIDN'T! He used Thousand-Image Defense to do that! Do you know why he used Thousand-Image Defense to do it? Because Poseidon, as I have stated, for the millionth time, blitzed Kojiro many, many, many times over and was more skilled than him for a time. If you actually read the scans I have provided you would know this! Thousand-Image Defense is not a activated ability. It is a passive ability. He uses it even if he doesn't want to.
 
azontr said:
But he DIDN'T! He used Thousand-Image Defense to do that! Do you know why he used Thousand-Image Defense to do it? Because Poseidon, as I have stated, for the millionth time, blitzed Kojiro many, many, many times over and was more skilled than him for a time. If you actually read the scans I have provided you would know this! Thousand-Image Defense is not a activated ability. It is a passive ability. He uses it even if he doesn't want to.
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I just want you to view the fight from a narrative perspective, if Poseidon wasn't messing around and used his full power from the very beginning, he would've easily reduced Kojirou to atoms, but because he kept messing around from the beginning till mid fight instead of getting very serious, he ends up getting defeated from being way too cocky and overconfident as kojirou continued to adapt and predicted from just 18 moves to millions overtime. this time is different. the scenario and narrative is changed up.

he is fighting somone who is willing to blast his damn kneecaps off with bullets at any given point, without messing around, besides that he'll use up more energy trying to dodge and slash projectiles with a 2 handed weapon, i don't believe he could simply slice fingernail sized projectiles effectively like this, if he was wielding it one handed maybe but his weapon's weight is way too much for just one hand to handle. he wouldn't have enough time to adapt to something he can't predict without prior knowledge.

Zain could very easily just disarm his weapon by shooting it well, he doesn't necessarily need to go for a fist fight, he could simply run and fire till kojirou can't no more. I mean really, how flexible can his body twist and turn to block a barrage of tiny sized energy bullets? thousand image defense is basically his analytical prediction. but really i doubt he could predict anything that isn't a melee weapon based offense, Zain could very well just disarm his weapons 2 ways or block intial strikes and counter counter measures. kojirou doesn't really have complex counter measure's either, if he were to aim for the arm, he would get punched straight ahead on the noggin. just so you know, it's easier for Zain to punch Kojirou from many angles and sides whiule kojirou needs to constantly redirect the angle of his blade to block, parry or slash, which is significantly more cumbersome than using 2 pistols that has no recoil.

also, what prevent's zain's pistols from just breaking Monohoshizao into fragments with his guns anyways? Zain has almost 2 times AP advantage.
 
Greatsage13th said:
I just want you to view the fight from a narrative perspective, if Poseidon wasn't messing around and used his full power from the very beginning, he would've easily reduced Kojirou to atoms, but because he kept messing around from the beginning till mid fight instead of getting very serious, he ends up getting defeated from being way too cocky and overconfident as kojirou continued to adapt and predicted from just 18 moves to millions overtime. this time is different. the scenario and narrative is changed up.

he is fighting somone who is willing to blast his damn kneecaps off with bullets at any given point, without messing around, besides that he'll use up more energy trying to dodge and slash projectiles with a 2 handed weapon, i don't believe he could simply slice fingernail sized projectiles effectively like this, if he was wielding it one handed maybe but his weapon's weight is way too much for just one hand to handle. he wouldn't have enough time to adapt to something he can't predict without prior knowledge.

Zain could very easily just disarm his weapon by shooting it well, he doesn't necessarily need to go for a fist fight, he could simply run and fire till kojirou can't no more. I mean really, how flexible can his body twist and turn to block a barrage of tiny sized energy bullets? thousand image defense is basically his analytical prediction. but really i doubt he could predict anything that isn't a melee weapon based offense, Zain could very well just disarm his weapons 2 ways or block intial strikes and counter counter measures. kojirou doesn't really have complex counter measure's either, if he were to aim for the arm, he would get punched straight ahead on the noggin. just so you know, it's easier for Zain to punch Kojirou from many angles and sides whiule kojirou needs to constantly redirect the angle of his blade to block, parry or slash, which is significantly more cumbersome than using 2 pistols that has no recoil.

also, what prevent's zain's pistols from just breaking Monohoshizao into fragments with his guns anyways? Zain has almost 2 times AP advantage.
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I also want you to view the fight from a narrative perspective.

If it takes Kojiro 13 minutes and 7 seconds to surpass Poseidon, a guy who had, as we all know, surpassed Kojiro in literally all aspects many, many times over, how long is it going to take Kojiro to surpass somebody who doesn't have any of these stat advantages? A 2 times AP advantage is not that substantial at all. At best, it is going to take Kojiro a couple of minutes, hell, maybe even less time to have already figured out Zain and long since surpassed him. You keep making it sound like Zain's AP advantage is so absurdly substantial but it really is not. Kojiro has dealt with people that have AP advantages before. It was, ironically, his entire life. Fighting against people who had ridiculous AP and skill advantages over him and surpassing them.

Tell me, how is Zain going to break Kojiro's sword when he just cuts the bullets in half rapidly? How is he going to disarm Kojiro when he can literally just dodge because he knows every. possible. spot. those bullets are going to come from? Kojiro can literally just dodge-god his way throughout the entire fight. And he may as well be able to do this even if Zain showered him with projectiles that could very well one-shot him(which they cannot) from every direction, as again, he's dealt with that before.

He's dealt with attacks that can one-shot and speed blitz him multiple times over. He's dealt with attacks that come from all directions at rapid-fire paces. He's dealt with people who can out-skill or out-predict him and surpassed them. There comes a point where Zain does not at all have enough advantages over Kojiro to say that eventually Kojiro will not utterly surpass him in every conceivable manner.

Having a less substantial AP advantage over Kojiro just makes it worse. It makes it easier to surpass.
 
azontr said:
...Because he actually could do that? Because that's literally how the ability works? You realize that Kojiro has never fought anybody with trident or anybody that uses a spear in his life before his fight with Poseidon and still predicted him, right? Like, it's literally how the ability works. Quite literally nothing insinuates that Kojiro's Thousand-Image Defense would not cover martial arts he has never seen before as, through Thousand-Image Defense, he's going to see them in his head, countless upon countless numbers of times.
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Also you did not address the part where I said Zain's fighting style literally gets hard-countered because that's just how Thousand-Image Defense works. You never actually debunked or responded to the fact that that's just how the ability works and you can't change that.
 
azontr said:
Also, here is Kojiro's compilation of skill feats.

When Sasaki was alive, he had never won a single match in his entire life. At his dojo, he was one of the weakest students and was outclassed to the point that even if he fought one of his fellow students 100 times over he would not prevail.

Sasaki trained for half a month, and utterly surpassed the man who outclassed him to the point Sasaki gave the man visions of Sasaki cutting him in half. Sasaki achieved this both through muscle training, but also through using his incredible analytical abilities to fight the man 146 times over that half year.

After this, Kojiro would leave his dojo for many years to come and would train against all of the people in his dojo in in his mind for 4 years and 9 months, eventually even eclipsing his old master in strength, who before Kojiro left the dojo, previously appeared so strong to Kojiro that he was akin to a tiger.

After this, Kojiro went on a long journey of fighting and losing against opponents. He would face people that utterly eclipsed him in power and skill, and would proceed to train against all of these opponents in his mind until he had become strong enough to win against them. In Record of Ragnarok lore, Kojiro continued to lose until he had reached the absolute pinnacle of human swordsmanship until he died in his fight against Musashi

It is stated that after he died, Kojiro continued to train his skills in heaven for over 400 years. Along with this, the contestants of Ragnarok on the human side are all summoned in their peak/their youth where they were at their most strongest, but, due to his everlasting training even after death, Kojiro's old, decrepit body was considered to be his "golden age".

Now we will get to the actual fight between him and Poseidon.

As soon as his fight with Poseidon began, the man was able to immediately predict 18 exact ways Poseidon could end his life even though neither of them had even made a single move in the battle, a feat for his analytical abilities.

In the exact same fight, Kojiro's secret technique, the Tsubame Gaeshi, allowed him to counter Poseidon, someone he had already imagined stomping him over 18 times before the God of the Sea had even made a single move, and he was even able to make Poseidon look him in the eye, a God notorious for his ruthlessness, but also his under-evaluation of the human race.

Once the fight finally took off, Kojiro was capable of dodging attacks that were much faster than him, due to the fact he had already experienced said attacks in his mind, as as soon as the fight had started, Sasaki formed a perfect image of Poseidon in his head, and faced off against the image countless times, allowing him to know all of Poseidon's possible attack patterns, and thus allowing him to avoid them even though they were much faster than he was. This technique is referred to as the "thousand-image defense".

But, regardless of this, this was only an inkling of Poseidon's true power, and the god eventually began to speed blitz Kojiro after getting partially serious, even though he was already much faster than Kojiro. But even with this, Kojiro's sword, which was stated to have stepped into the surpassed humanity and stepped into the realm of the gods, held up against Poseidon's onslaught via Kojiro predicting Poseidon's moves constantly throughout the exchange, allowing him to evolve in response to Poseidon's attack.

But even with this, Poseidon was still able to out-skill Kojiro and saw through the man's constant predictions, and even with this, Kojiro continued to persevere through the onslaught, continuously evolving to suit the situation and the attacks coming towards him in order to avoid death.

Obviously, Poseidon stomped him and broke his Volund. It comes back through a Re-Volund so don't worry.

So, as usual, Poseidon attacked and Kojiro countered it. But, what is unique about this, is that he was able to perfectly copy the movements of his old opponents, every last one, after countless upon countless repetitions of his fights with them in his mind during his 400-year training after his death.

And eventually...

He even began to wound Poseidon, multiple times even despite the God of the Sea previously absolutely decimating him! Sasaki's technique was so strong even, that by the time the exchange ended, Poseidon was utterly littered with wounds.

BUT OBVIOUSLY, Poseidon started stomping him again, moving so fast that even with his thousand-image defense, Kojiro literally could not react in time to counter. Poseidon proceeded to make it EVEN WORSE by covering the man in a dome of attacks that were also exceptionally faster than his reaction speed, coming from all directions.

Kojiro was able to just barely react, but, obviously, because Poseidon's dick is bigger than the Pacific Ocean, he was still rocking Kojiro's shit to the point Kojiro felt as though Poseidon's strength was akin to an endless abyss. That is how utterly outclassed Kojiro was in this fight.

But...

Sasaki was only getting started. As shown in the scan, he continued to counter Poseidon's attacks despite their speed and power, and it was even stated that all of these stomp-worthy attacks only served to make the man even stronger. That is how busted Sasaki Kojiro's analytics are.

He'd finally reached the Sea God in strength.

And with that, Sasaki's awareness rapidly evolved.. He began to scan even deeper, to the vibrations in the air, to the trembles of the Earth, to the point that he was stated to have begun to scan all of creation at once, and finally stole the techniques of Poseidon.

After so long of getting stomped, Kojiro began to seamlessly pass through Poseidon's attacks with newfound skill, putting on display the insane evolution of this ******. Kojiro's skill had evolved so god damn much, that he invented an entire new technique that ******* cut Poseidon's arm off, and he even did it AGAIN.

And finally, he killed Poseidon with his final Swallow-Tiger combo.

A few things I left out is that Kojiro also has a several character scaling chain of skill stomps which he, by the time of his fight with Poseidon, scales above. Like, by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much.
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Also, in case you don't believe me about me saying Kojiro can deal with attacks from all directions, just read through this. You'll see multiple times where Poseidon just covers him in a dome of attacks or covers the entire arena with attacks faster than Kojiro and he still deals with them. In fact, he deals with attacks faster than himself throughout nearly the entire fight.
 
azontr said:
Also, in case you don't believe me about me saying Kojiro can deal with attacks from all directions, just read through this. You'll see multiple times where Poseidon just covers him in a dome of attacks or covers the entire arena with attacks faster than Kojiro and he still deals with them. In fact, he deals with attacks faster than himself throughout nearly the entire fight.
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Yes I know that he could do that...with Volund. Has he done this prior without Volund before?
 
Greatsage13th said:
Yes I know that he could do that...with Volund. Has he done this prior without Volund before?
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Him with Volund and him without Volund are literally the same people and it's only a stat boost. The skill feat still applies, especially in this case where both opponents are 9-B.
 
azontr said:
Also you did not address the part where I said Zain's fighting style literally gets hard-countered because that's just how Thousand-Image Defense works. You never actually debunked or responded to the fact that that's just how the ability works and you can't change that.
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I just want to know if kojiro could deal with gun fu, I don't believe he could as in this fight speed is equalized and Zain's guns have a seperate speed rating to his own. And due to the fact his thousand image defense seems to predict melee weapon attacks and the opponents location, never once he had done this with projectiles or by Occam's razor, he can't. Unless proven. Without proof it'd be empty words and tons of speculation.
azontr said:
Him with Volund and him without Volund are literally the same people and it's only a stat boost. The skill feat still applies, especially in this case where both opponents are 9-B.
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I'm implying that he could only did what he did with Poseidon because of the amp from mere subsonic to ftl. If his speed was never amped, Kojirou would have definitely been reduced to atoms even with Analytical prediction. You remove all of his amps and you will be left with someone who could deal with people far above his stats but not too wide of a margin to the point The Doctor can't beat him with a spoon in an equal stat tournament, so there's that.
 
Greatsage13th said:
I just want to know if kojiro could deal with gun fu, I don't believe he could as in this fight speed is equalized and Zain's guns have a seperate speed rating to his own. And due to the fact his thousand image defense seems to predict melee weapon attacks and the opponents location, never once he had done this with projectiles or by Occam's razor, he can't. Unless proven. Without proof it'd be empty words and tons of speculation.
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Again, you have disregarded how Thousand-Image Defense works. He literally creates a perfect copy of the opponent in his mind, this would include Zain's weapons. You would have to be acting willfully ignorant to ignore this. Saying that Kojiro's Thousand-Image Defense doesn't work on things he hasn't seen before is a weakness he literally does not have.

It also doesn't matter if it is a projectile, it should work literally all the same. There is nothing saying that Kojiro's Thousand-Image Defense does not account for this but you.
Greatsage13th said:
I'm implying that he could only did what he did with Poseidon because of the amp from mere subsonic to ftl. If his speed was never amped, Kojirou would have definitely been reduced to atoms even with Analytical prediction. You remove all of his amps and you will be left with someone who could deal with people far above his stats but not too wide of a margin to the point The Doctor can't beat him with a spoon in an equal stat tournament, so there's that.
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Of course if he was 9-B he would've been obliterated, but this time he isn't up against a 5-B, is he? He is up against a 9-B with a slight AP advantage. His skill feats still apply here and nothing you say or do will change that, as Volund is simply a mere stat boost.
 
RedGX said:
Man, it's a shame that the ROR profiles are like that. The verse page didn't receive any major edits in ages, in fact it's seems that the verse has been abandoned, the only recent edit being visual (it's was pretty awful before ngl).

Oh yeah, Kojiro Sushi man FRA.
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Yeah I plan to rework the existing profiles one of these days and add new ones if nobody else does. RoR does not deserve this kind of treatment.

And with you're vote it's 3 votes for Kojiro(including mine since I obviously voted for him.)
 
azontr said:
Again, you have disregarded how Thousand-Image Defense works. He literally creates a perfect copy of the opponent in his mind, this would include Zain's weapons. You would have to be acting willfully ignorant to ignore this. Saying that Kojiro's Thousand-Image Defense doesn't work on things he hasn't seen before is a weakness he literally does not have.

It also doesn't matter if it is a projectile, it should work literally all the same. There is nothing saying that Kojiro's Thousand-Image Defense does not account for this but you.

Of course if he was 9-B he would've been obliterated, but this time he isn't up against a 5-B, is he? He is up against a 9-B with a slight AP advantage. His skill feats still apply here and nothing you say or do will change that, as Volund is simply a mere stat boost.
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I disregarded as such due to burden of proof, show me at least one time where Kojirou successfully blocked a barrage of projectiles and I'll concede this particular argument. A barrage of trident thrusts does not count, they can be easily parried and blocked compared to finger nail sized pellets, besides, Poseidon's trident had a large size that could allow anyone mildly adept with a sword to easily block and parry. Of course I meant anyone who wields that trident to thrust can easily be parried and blocked by a mildly adept swordsman due to its massive size and cumbersome nature. If we assume both of their physical stats are the same. Don't take this too literally, it's just my hypothesis.

Again proof of so is required. You're making an assumption based on your headcanon, I'm making an assumption based on Kojirou's showings and logic. For example, Sure you would be able to block a barrage of trident thrusts but how would this apply to a barrage of tiny projectiles? Sure you've been shown to defeat someone who could be several times faster than you overtime in more than 10 minutes but that opponent never took you seriously from the start and only gotten very serious when he actually took damage which at the time you already evolved to the point that you could predict millions of moves ahead, but in the beginning you could only do 18. This time the opponent you're facing doesn't mess around or act cocky and arrogant neither having a god complex so most likely you'll be overwhelmed in less than a minute. I'm serious about this, unless Kojirou is given prior knowledge in this fight, he won't last more than a minute. It took him minutes to make 18 hypothetical scenarios in that head of his which he mostly died, before he evolved further against a casual Poseidon to hundreds of predictions before evolving to millions. But agent zain performed 3 hypothetical scenarios in fractions of a second while uno was charging at him with the intent to kill (refer to Ejen Ali season 2 episode 13 miss legasi for proof) which would make his analytical prediction superior to an unevolved Sasaki Kojirou's analytical prediction. But if the fight manages to drag on beyond the 2 minute mark (which is very unlikely), Kojirou would be too much for Zain's Analytical prediction to handle. Only way for him to win is to be on the total defensive to evolve which wouldn't work if Zain could just shoot at an unevolved Kojirou's katana out of his hand like how he did to Uno, even with the edge of the blade aligned to the the bullet, Uno's (formerly know as Djin) katana got shot out of his hand with ease. In this scenario, Kojirou wouldn't win due to the different scenario, opponent and his opponent's weaponry, no way in heck can he block a barrage of bullets without prior knowledge from the beginning unless you can provide scans for that. Also his thousand image defense only kicked in mid fight, not from the very beginning.
 
Greatsage13th said:
I disregarded as such due to burden of proof, show me at least one time where Kojirou successfully blocked a barrage of projectiles and I'll concede this particular argument. A barrage of trident thrusts does not count, they can be easily parried and blocked compared to finger nail sized pellets, besides, Poseidon's trident had a large size that could allow anyone mildly adept with a sword to easily block and parry.
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Hahahahahahaha...

You don't realize what countering an attack that hits all around him quite literally and was speed-blitzing him means do you? one direction<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Literally all around my man. It does not matter if it's a bullet or a Bolter, tell me, do you know how someone would normally handle being surrounded and attacked on all sides? Either literally try and protect the vitals until they piss off or bum rush one part of it to make an opening so you can have them all in front of you.

Let's also look at that speed section! "Hypersonic combat and reaction speed (Comparable to Uno). At least Supersonic+ attack speed (His more technologically advanced guns should have faster attack speed than regular ones)"

This man has such dogshit attack speed with his bullets to the point where they're moving at bare minimum 2x slower than either Kojirou or Zain here
 
I'm gonna say this again.

Kojiro's Thousand-Image Defense works through forming an exact copy of the opponent within his mind. This opponent is exact in every way, and includes the weapons that the opponent holds. The moment Kojiro glances at Zain he is going to know how a gun fires and he's going to learn how to parry it. I do not need proof when this is simply how the ability works. The mental copies are exact, they have the person's appearance, their weapons, everything. The only way Kojiro would not know how to parry these attacks is if he had some pre-conceived weakness of Thousand-Image Defense not working on things he has never seen before, which is not a weakness stated. I do not need proof. That is simply how the ability works and YOU need to prove that he has this weakness.

And you are quite literally wrong on the Poseidon thing. Kojiro was evolving even when Poseidon was casual, the fact of the matter was Poseidon was just that far above Kojiro that it took him that long to evolve. Don't believe me?

Here's the explanation of Thousand-Image Defense. During that scan Kojiro is also constantly evolving against a casual Poseidon. Here's Kojiro continuing to constantly evolve against stomp worthy and speed blitz worthy attacks constantly. I have scans. You, unfortunately, do not, nor do you read Record of Ragnarok.
 
azontr said:
I'm gonna say this again.

Kojiro's Thousand-Image Defense works through forming an exact copy of the opponent within his mind. This opponent is exact in every way, and includes the weapons that the opponent holds. The moment Kojiro glances at Zain he is going to know how a gun fires and he's going to learn how to parry it. I do not need proof when this is simply how the ability works. The mental copies are exact, they have the person's appearance, their weapons, everything. The only way Kojiro would not know how to parry these attacks is if he had some pre-conceived weakness of Thousand-Image Defense not working on things he has never seen before, which is not a weakness stated. I do not need proof. That is simply how the ability works and YOU need to prove that he has this weakness.

And you are quite literally wrong on the Poseidon thing. Kojiro was evolving even when Poseidon was casual, the fact of the matter was Poseidon was just that far above Kojiro that it took him that long to evolve. Don't believe me?

Here's the explanation of Thousand-Image Defense. During that scan Kojiro is also constantly evolving against a casual Poseidon. Here's Kojiro continuing to constantly evolve against stomp worthy and speed blitz worthy attacks constantly. I have scans. You, unfortunately, do not, nor do you read Record of Ragnarok.
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To be frank who wants to read a monthly series that takes a long ass time with its matches
 
DaReaperMan said:
From what I know it's usually good, except for the Match 7 but who cares about that one
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Match 7 was kinda actual dogshit, yeah. Every match before it is by no means bad though, some just don't compare to the better matches, but that doesn't mean that they are at all bad.
 
azontr said:
I'm gonna say this again.

Kojiro's Thousand-Image Defense works through forming an exact copy of the opponent within his mind. This opponent is exact in every way, and includes the weapons that the opponent holds. The moment Kojiro glances at Zain he is going to know how a gun fires and he's going to learn how to parry it. I do not need proof when this is simply how the ability works. The mental copies are exact, they have the person's appearance, their weapons, everything. The only way Kojiro would not know how to parry these attacks is if he had some pre-conceived weakness of Thousand-Image Defense not working on things he has never seen before, which is not a weakness stated. I do not need proof. That is simply how the ability works and YOU need to prove that he has this weakness.

And you are quite literally wrong on the Poseidon thing. Kojiro was evolving even when Poseidon was casual, the fact of the matter was Poseidon was just that far above Kojiro that it took him that long to evolve. Don't believe me?

Here's the explanation of Thousand-Image Defense. During that scan Kojiro is also constantly evolving against a casual Poseidon. Here's Kojiro continuing to constantly evolve against stomp worthy and speed blitz worthy attacks constantly. I have scans. You, unfortunately, do not, nor do you read Record of Ragnarok.
Click to expand...
Finally some scans.

Also pretty sure he can't "parry" energy bullets. He's not some kind of Jedi best he could do is slash and block. Thousand Image Defense already states what it does, it is a defensive form of Kojirou's analytical prediction can be used as offense but mid-fight Poseidon can also predict what Kojirou was about to do and shattered his katana by slamming his trident down on it. Also if he's gonna block all of Zain's bullets, he's katana is going to get chipped worn down and eventually break. You didn't really provide a counterargument for that. I never said his ability has a weakness, infact its very impressive and would curbstomb Zain....overtime, but against the wrong opponent, as I said earlier, there's not a single time he predicted what an unarmed opponent would do, practically every single time he predicted someone's moves in a perfect and fluid way are those that are armed with some kind of melee weapon, not bows and arrows, not guns, not cannons nor forcefields. If he has at least shown any of this, I'd concede my previous arguments and say he wins this match. I have nothing to prove as I never stated his ability has a weakness but you have to prove that his abilities is expounded upon even ranged weapons and unarmed combat. Don't turn the tables just yet.

I never said Kojiro never evolved against casual Poseidon, don't jumble my words. I'm saying that Kojirou was given more than enough room to evolve very very very very very significantly because of a casual arrogant Poseidon. This is a very reasonable argument to make. If Poseidon got bloodlusted in that fight from the very beginning, when Kojirou was still unevolved, Kojirou would have been reduced to atom. Wouldn't you agree?

I do read the manga and know that Qin Shi Huang won the most recent match with Heavenly hand of defense on conjunction with Gou Jian sword, as well as weakening Desmostar with an air pellet that weakens his opponents. Shiva won against Raiden by obliterating one of his arms followed by a leg sweep that decapitated his head, Lu Bu lost due to Mjoinir's overwhelming power, Jack won through petty means, Buddha won with his Nirvana sword and Hajun's fear of Buddha. Don't assume just because I'm arguing for Zain, means that I've never read the manga. Need I say more? Your 3rd argument has been counterargued by my second.
 
Greatsage13th said:
?
Click to expand...
azontr said:
Also, here is Kojiro's compilation of skill feats.

When Sasaki was alive, he had never won a single match in his entire life. At his dojo, he was one of the weakest students and was outclassed to the point that even if he fought one of his fellow students 100 times over he would not prevail.

Sasaki trained for half a month, and utterly surpassed the man who outclassed him to the point Sasaki gave the man visions of Sasaki cutting him in half. Sasaki achieved this both through muscle training, but also through using his incredible analytical abilities to fight the man 146 times over that half year.

After this, Kojiro would leave his dojo for many years to come and would train against all of the people in his dojo in in his mind for 4 years and 9 months, eventually even eclipsing his old master in strength, who before Kojiro left the dojo, previously appeared so strong to Kojiro that he was akin to a tiger.

After this, Kojiro went on a long journey of fighting and losing against opponents. He would face people that utterly eclipsed him in power and skill, and would proceed to train against all of these opponents in his mind until he had become strong enough to win against them. In Record of Ragnarok lore, Kojiro continued to lose until he had reached the absolute pinnacle of human swordsmanship until he died in his fight against Musashi

It is stated that after he died, Kojiro continued to train his skills in heaven for over 400 years. Along with this, the contestants of Ragnarok on the human side are all summoned in their peak/their youth where they were at their most strongest, but, due to his everlasting training even after death, Kojiro's old, decrepit body was considered to be his "golden age".

Now we will get to the actual fight between him and Poseidon.

As soon as his fight with Poseidon began, the man was able to immediately predict 18 exact ways Poseidon could end his life even though neither of them had even made a single move in the battle, a feat for his analytical abilities.

In the exact same fight, Kojiro's secret technique, the Tsubame Gaeshi, allowed him to counter Poseidon, someone he had already imagined stomping him over 18 times before the God of the Sea had even made a single move, and he was even able to make Poseidon look him in the eye, a God notorious for his ruthlessness, but also his under-evaluation of the human race.

Once the fight finally took off, Kojiro was capable of dodging attacks that were much faster than him, due to the fact he had already experienced said attacks in his mind, as as soon as the fight had started, Sasaki formed a perfect image of Poseidon in his head, and faced off against the image countless times, allowing him to know all of Poseidon's possible attack patterns, and thus allowing him to avoid them even though they were much faster than he was. This technique is referred to as the "thousand-image defense".

But, regardless of this, this was only an inkling of Poseidon's true power, and the god eventually began to speed blitz Kojiro after getting partially serious, even though he was already much faster than Kojiro. But even with this, Kojiro's sword, which was stated to have stepped into the surpassed humanity and stepped into the realm of the gods, held up against Poseidon's onslaught via Kojiro predicting Poseidon's moves constantly throughout the exchange, allowing him to evolve in response to Poseidon's attack.

But even with this, Poseidon was still able to out-skill Kojiro and saw through the man's constant predictions, and even with this, Kojiro continued to persevere through the onslaught, continuously evolving to suit the situation and the attacks coming towards him in order to avoid death.

Obviously, Poseidon stomped him and broke his Volund. It comes back through a Re-Volund so don't worry.

So, as usual, Poseidon attacked and Kojiro countered it. But, what is unique about this, is that he was able to perfectly copy the movements of his old opponents, every last one, after countless upon countless repetitions of his fights with them in his mind during his 400-year training after his death.

And eventually...

He even began to wound Poseidon, multiple times even despite the God of the Sea previously absolutely decimating him! Sasaki's technique was so strong even, that by the time the exchange ended, Poseidon was utterly littered with wounds.

BUT OBVIOUSLY, Poseidon started stomping him again, moving so fast that even with his thousand-image defense, Kojiro literally could not react in time to counter. Poseidon proceeded to make it EVEN WORSE by covering the man in a dome of attacks that were also exceptionally faster than his reaction speed, coming from all directions.

Kojiro was able to just barely react, but, obviously, because Poseidon's dick is bigger than the Pacific Ocean, he was still rocking Kojiro's shit to the point Kojiro felt as though Poseidon's strength was akin to an endless abyss. That is how utterly outclassed Kojiro was in this fight.

But...

Sasaki was only getting started. As shown in the scan, he continued to counter Poseidon's attacks despite their speed and power, and it was even stated that all of these stomp-worthy attacks only served to make the man even stronger. That is how busted Sasaki Kojiro's analytics are.

He'd finally reached the Sea God in strength.

And with that, Sasaki's awareness rapidly evolved.. He began to scan even deeper, to the vibrations in the air, to the trembles of the Earth, to the point that he was stated to have begun to scan all of creation at once, and finally stole the techniques of Poseidon.

After so long of getting stomped, Kojiro began to seamlessly pass through Poseidon's attacks with newfound skill, putting on display the insane evolution of this ******. Kojiro's skill had evolved so god damn much, that he invented an entire new technique that ******* cut Poseidon's arm off, and he even did it AGAIN.

And finally, he killed Poseidon with his final Swallow-Tiger combo.

A few things I left out is that Kojiro also has a several character scaling chain of skill stomps which he, by the time of his fight with Poseidon, scales above. Like, by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much.
Click to expand...
This has all the relevant ******* scans in it. If you actually thought you didn't get any scans then it is clear you didn't read any of this even though I provide multiple upon multiple scans all detailing Kojiro's feats and the like.
 
The scans I sent you I literally took FROM THAT post as well. You've also been just ignoring a lot of my arguments throughout this thread and I'm starting to get very tired of it.

Anyway, here's my response:

He's going to know that parrying them won't be the best idea and he's going to dodge, which, again, he can. Kojiro can indeed dodge as he's dealt with attacks that can blitz him, as I've stated many, many times, with these attacks coming from all directions. You keep saying the same thing over and over and over again but fail to actually address my argument as when I say Kojiro is going to surpass Zain swiftly I mean swiftly. The only reason, as I have stated, MANY TIMES, that it took so long with Poseidon, is because Poseidon was that much above him. Zain is not that far above him, he is not even close. I keep saying this and yet you seemingly continue to ignore it. The time it takes for Kojiro to evolve is dependent on how strong his opponent is in comparison to him, if there's a large gap, the time it will take for him to evolve will take longer, if there's a smaller gap, it will obviously take a shorter amount of time for Kojiro to evolve in comparison to a guy that was literally worlds above him in all aspects. He is going to have wiggle room to evolve against Zain because Zain is in no way shape or form so far above Kojiro that he can literally casually one-shot or speed blitz him. It doesn't matter if Zain goes for instant kill shots or tries to shoot his knees or whatever, at best, with this horrifyingly negligible stat advantage he has, this is going to take a minute or a couple of minutes, which Kojiro can no doubt survive. And the longer the fight goes on this is going to be happening constantly. It is this simple, so I'll spell it out for you once more and hope you'll finally get it through your skull.

The stronger the opponent is, the longer it takes Kojiro to evolve. Poseidon was so far above Kojiro that it really did take him that long to evolve. Zain is not. Zain is not, in anyway shape or form, so far above Kojiro, that he can avoid Kojiro evolving against him in a short amount of time. His bullets aren't fast enough, his attacks aren't strong enough, and worst of all, in general skill, Kojiro actually SURPASSES him.

Again, he doesn't need to be shown predicting somebody with Zain's weapons for the ability to work that way. It works through forming a perfect copy of the opponent in his mind. Assuming that this wouldn't include weapons he's never seen before such as guns, or bows, or anything like that just doesn't make any sense. Do you even know what a perfect copy is? Do I have to keep repeating myself again and again for you to get that Thousand-Image Defense copies the opponent literally perfectly? Why wouldn't it work on bows and guns and shit is the ******* question, actually. It has nothing saying that Kojiro has to have seen the weapon before, nothing that says it has to be a melee weapon, and the ability literally works through forming a perfect copy of the opponent in Kojiro's head. If this ability didn't work on anything like bows, guns, forcefields or anything like that, it would be listed as a weakness, or stated in the manga, and yet, for some reason, it isn't. Do you know why? It isn't a weakness. It has never, and will never, most likely, be a weakness. Hell, you realize that when Kojiro teamed up with Buddha and Okita he was going to fight somebody WHO USED A GUN, right? You read Record of Ragnarok so you must know that a member of the seven lucky gods uses a ******* gun. If Kojiro knew his Thousand-Image Defense wouldn't work on the guy he wouldn't have challenged him to a literal fight.
 
azontr said:
This has all the relevant ******* scans in it. If you actually thought you didn't get any scans then it is clear you didn't read any of this even though I provide multiple upon multiple scans all detailing Kojiro's feats and the like.
Click to expand...
Oof, my bad. I did not see that coming.
 
Greatsage13th said:
Oof, my bad. I did not see that coming.
Click to expand...
So you just didn't see when I posted the thing and then quoted it multiple times. Okay.
azontr said:
Also, here is Kojiro's compilation of skill feats.

When Sasaki was alive, he had never won a single match in his entire life. At his dojo, he was one of the weakest students and was outclassed to the point that even if he fought one of his fellow students 100 times over he would not prevail.

Sasaki trained for half a month, and utterly surpassed the man who outclassed him to the point Sasaki gave the man visions of Sasaki cutting him in half. Sasaki achieved this both through muscle training, but also through using his incredible analytical abilities to fight the man 146 times over that half year.

After this, Kojiro would leave his dojo for many years to come and would train against all of the people in his dojo in in his mind for 4 years and 9 months, eventually even eclipsing his old master in strength, who before Kojiro left the dojo, previously appeared so strong to Kojiro that he was akin to a tiger.

After this, Kojiro went on a long journey of fighting and losing against opponents. He would face people that utterly eclipsed him in power and skill, and would proceed to train against all of these opponents in his mind until he had become strong enough to win against them. In Record of Ragnarok lore, Kojiro continued to lose until he had reached the absolute pinnacle of human swordsmanship until he died in his fight against Musashi

It is stated that after he died, Kojiro continued to train his skills in heaven for over 400 years. Along with this, the contestants of Ragnarok on the human side are all summoned in their peak/their youth where they were at their most strongest, but, due to his everlasting training even after death, Kojiro's old, decrepit body was considered to be his "golden age".

Now we will get to the actual fight between him and Poseidon.

As soon as his fight with Poseidon began, the man was able to immediately predict 18 exact ways Poseidon could end his life even though neither of them had even made a single move in the battle, a feat for his analytical abilities.

In the exact same fight, Kojiro's secret technique, the Tsubame Gaeshi, allowed him to counter Poseidon, someone he had already imagined stomping him over 18 times before the God of the Sea had even made a single move, and he was even able to make Poseidon look him in the eye, a God notorious for his ruthlessness, but also his under-evaluation of the human race.

Once the fight finally took off, Kojiro was capable of dodging attacks that were much faster than him, due to the fact he had already experienced said attacks in his mind, as as soon as the fight had started, Sasaki formed a perfect image of Poseidon in his head, and faced off against the image countless times, allowing him to know all of Poseidon's possible attack patterns, and thus allowing him to avoid them even though they were much faster than he was. This technique is referred to as the "thousand-image defense".

But, regardless of this, this was only an inkling of Poseidon's true power, and the god eventually began to speed blitz Kojiro after getting partially serious, even though he was already much faster than Kojiro. But even with this, Kojiro's sword, which was stated to have stepped into the surpassed humanity and stepped into the realm of the gods, held up against Poseidon's onslaught via Kojiro predicting Poseidon's moves constantly throughout the exchange, allowing him to evolve in response to Poseidon's attack.

But even with this, Poseidon was still able to out-skill Kojiro and saw through the man's constant predictions, and even with this, Kojiro continued to persevere through the onslaught, continuously evolving to suit the situation and the attacks coming towards him in order to avoid death.

Obviously, Poseidon stomped him and broke his Volund. It comes back through a Re-Volund so don't worry.

So, as usual, Poseidon attacked and Kojiro countered it. But, what is unique about this, is that he was able to perfectly copy the movements of his old opponents, every last one, after countless upon countless repetitions of his fights with them in his mind during his 400-year training after his death.

And eventually...

He even began to wound Poseidon, multiple times even despite the God of the Sea previously absolutely decimating him! Sasaki's technique was so strong even, that by the time the exchange ended, Poseidon was utterly littered with wounds.

BUT OBVIOUSLY, Poseidon started stomping him again, moving so fast that even with his thousand-image defense, Kojiro literally could not react in time to counter. Poseidon proceeded to make it EVEN WORSE by covering the man in a dome of attacks that were also exceptionally faster than his reaction speed, coming from all directions.

Kojiro was able to just barely react, but, obviously, because Poseidon's dick is bigger than the Pacific Ocean, he was still rocking Kojiro's shit to the point Kojiro felt as though Poseidon's strength was akin to an endless abyss. That is how utterly outclassed Kojiro was in this fight.

But...

Sasaki was only getting started. As shown in the scan, he continued to counter Poseidon's attacks despite their speed and power, and it was even stated that all of these stomp-worthy attacks only served to make the man even stronger. That is how busted Sasaki Kojiro's analytics are.

He'd finally reached the Sea God in strength.

And with that, Sasaki's awareness rapidly evolved.. He began to scan even deeper, to the vibrations in the air, to the trembles of the Earth, to the point that he was stated to have begun to scan all of creation at once, and finally stole the techniques of Poseidon.

After so long of getting stomped, Kojiro began to seamlessly pass through Poseidon's attacks with newfound skill, putting on display the insane evolution of this ******. Kojiro's skill had evolved so god damn much, that he invented an entire new technique that ******* cut Poseidon's arm off, and he even did it AGAIN.

And finally, he killed Poseidon with his final Swallow-Tiger combo.

A few things I left out is that Kojiro also has a several character scaling chain of skill stomps which he, by the time of his fight with Poseidon, scales above. Like, by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much.
Click to expand...
I'll quote it again just so you can see it.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Hahahahahahaha...

You don't realize what countering an attack that hits all around him quite literally and was speed-blitzing him means do you? one direction<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Literally all around my man. It does not matter if it's a bullet or a Bolter, tell me, do you know how someone would normally handle being surrounded and attacked on all sides? Either literally try and protect the vitals until they piss off or bum rush one part of it to make an opening so you can have them all in front of you.

Let's also look at that speed section! "Hypersonic combat and reaction speed (Comparable to Uno). At least Supersonic+ attack speed (His more technologically advanced guns should have faster attack speed than regular ones)"

This man has such dogshit attack speed with his bullets to the point where they're moving at bare minimum 2x slower than either Kojirou or Zain here
Click to expand...
I would also like to point out, before you respond again, @Greatsage13th, that this is a great point. Inherently, attacks coming from all directions is superior to attacks coming from a singular direction. It was an actual dome of attacks that Kojiro was stopping, meaning it was coming from above and all possible sides except for literally below him.

This also brings up my point on stat advantages as well, if Kojiro can deal with a dome of attacks that can speed blitz him many times over, how do you think he's gonna deal with a line of attacks coming from a singular direction that aren't even close to speed blitz worthy for Kojiro?

Zain's guns were already useless for reasons explained previously, but now they become even more useless. Just wanted to say this.
 
Well then, I concede, seems like Sasaki wins this fight either low dif or stomp. Really just up to you guys. Simply because he managed to glance at gun shots.
 
Alright. I wanna apologize if I ever came off as aggressive during that debate, that wasn't my intention.
 
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