Battle for second 7-B Demon King vs Witch

[Dereck03]

His eyes will destroy the ability even if he already got affected or not, that's it's nature, you just can read the feat or the profile to get a better understanding but you always ignore those things, how many times a have to deal with you.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

I go off of feats, not hypothetical scenarios, and Anos almost never uses his eye. Same stuff with his immeasurable speed. He never dodged a passive ability/hax with it either. Neither of these are his common go-to moves.

 

[Dereck03]

I am not giving you any hypothetical scenario, I am giving you a "simple" explanation of the feat since you seem to be so lazy to read well as usual and want everything in the easy way.

I won't even discuss anything about immeasurable since you questioned it before and you were left unable to counterargue and were just arguing with PIS.

Immeasurable ---> Passives, you can blitz something that is instantaneous with Immeasurable

About his eyes, i'll give you a simple explanation, he can use them to destroy abilities, passives, law, concepts, reason, etc.. He just need to merely open them **(looking for feats, he doesn't even need to open them, they can do the work by themselves, I'm not really suro tho, i'll keep reading for this).

Why he doesn't use everytime his eyes in his verse?

He can't cuz he fear of at the very, very least the universe being destroyed, this is fine, but we saw Anos using then in the demon king garden (we know the reasons tho, was a 3-layered world durable enough specifically made so that anos could use his eyes and his power without much limitation (and even he limited them)), and for vs debates he should be able to freely use them cuz the match normally will take place in a neutral place and not his verse. (in other words, Anos will not have that limitation anymore and we saw before if there isn't that limitation, he could use his eyes and his power).

"It's chaotic destruction. The power of these magic eyes is the essence of destruction, but it's extremely chaotic.

No matter how much I look into it, I can't even see the bottom.

Even if I wanted to check, if I opened my eyes properly, the world would not endure." (Anos)

A power that destroys even the indestructible. Even that is merely an after-effect spilling out from the [Magic Eyes of Chaotic Destruction].

Even if you try to see its true power, merely by opening these magic eyes, the world begins to collapse and become chaotic.

Even he, who was called the Demon King of Tyranny, could not bring himself to check what would happen if he opened his eyes.

Therefore, its power is suppressed to the utmost limit and then released.

By doing so, the [Magic Eyes of Chaotic Destruction] emit the power to destroy order.

I hope that with this you have understood at least a little and that next time you will read at least some of what you are going to discuss and not make a fool of yourself without knowing anything.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

I am not giving you any hypothetical scenario, I am giving you a "simple" explanation of the feat since you seem to be so lazy to read well as usual and want everything in the easy way.

I won't even discuss anything about immeasurable since you questioned it before and you were left unable to counterargue and were just arguing with PIS.

Immeasurable ---> Passives, you can blitz something that is instantaneous with Immeasurable

About his eyes, i'll give you a simple explanation, he can use them to destroy abilities, passives, law, concepts, reason, etc.. He just need to merely open them **(looking for feats, he doesn't even need to open them, they can do the work by themselves, I'm not really suro tho, i'll keep reading for this).

Why he doesn't use everytime his eyes in his verse?

He can't cuz he fear of at the very, very least the universe being destroyed, this is fine, but we saw Anos using then in the demon king garden (we know the reasons tho, was a 3-layered world durable enough specifically made so that anos could use his eyes and his power without much limitation (and even he limited them)), and for vs debates he should be able to freely use them cuz the match normally will take place in a neutral place and not his verse. (in other words, Anos will not have that limitation anymore and we saw before if there isn't that limitation, he could use his eyes and his power).


I hope that with this you have understood at least a little and that next time you will read at least some of what you are going to discuss and not make a fool of yourself without knowing anything.

You just proved Anos needs to consciously activate them lol. Once again, prove he can dodge passives. Why hasn't he ever done this in the novels? Don't give him abilities/attributes he doesn't have as a 7b. Anos was able to nullify the hax (with the eye) after it was explained to him what was affecting him. Just how much PIS is there, do you think?

 

[imZer0Null]

@kuramamyfav68
Anos doesn't need to have evidence of dodging passive abilities if he already has other immeasurable speed feats. Just stop trying to argue this.

Also, if Homura doesn't resist Anos' Magic Eyes of Chaotic Destruction, then regardless of whatever powers she affects him with, regardless of whether or not they are passive, Anos can just destroy the reason of the power and create a logical contradiction. In this case, the contradiction would be between the proposition "She erased Anos' memory" (I'm not even sure what exactly her memory hax is supposed to do, or if it can even affect him tbh, since you need to affect his source to actually incap him, and for that you need NEP interaction and powerful enough concept manip to overcome his resistance) and the proposition "Anos' memory was never erased", and regardless of which proposition was true before Anos creates the contradiction, Anos' proposition will become true after Anos creates the contradiction.
This might seem contradictory, impossible, and NLF... And that's because it is contradictory and seemingly impossible, but that is not a relevant factor when either Venuzdonoa or the MEoCD are involved. It isn't NLF however, because you can resist this power if you have enough law & concept manip resistance.

And lastly, Anos does have access to his MEoCD in all of his keys, and we have seen Anos use his MEoCD when it was kinda his only option left (See Anos vs Elmide), so unless this battle takes place in the Militia World, or maybe just another world in Anos' verse if I'm being generous, Anos wouldn't have any reason not to use his MEoCD. I also see that you keep arguing that it's out of character for Anos to do this and that (despite appearing to not actually be knowledge on the verse, meaning you wouldn't really know what is in character for Anos), but I'm willing to bet that most verse supporters would agree with me that, regardless of how ridiculous this might seem, it's MUCH more out of character for Anos to lose because he didn't use a power that would've made him win.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

@kuramamyfav68
Anos doesn't need to have evidence of dodging passive abilities if he already has other immeasurable speed feats. Just stop trying to argue this.

Also, if Homura doesn't resist Anos' Magic Eyes of Chaotic Destruction, then regardless of whatever powers she affects him with, regardless of whether or not they are passive, Anos can just destroy the reason of the power and create a logical contradiction. In this case, the contradiction would be between the proposition "She erased Anos' memory" (I'm not even sure what exactly her memory hax is supposed to do, or if it can even affect him tbh, since you need to affect his source to actually incap him, and for that you need NEP interaction and powerful enough concept manip to overcome his resistance) and the proposition "Anos' memory was never erased", and regardless of which proposition was true before Anos creates the contradiction, Anos' proposition will become true after Anos creates the contradiction.
This might seem contradictory, impossible, and NLF... And that's because it is contradictory and seemingly impossible, but that is not a relevant factor when either Venuzdonoa or the MEoCD are involved. It isn't NLF however, because you can resist this power if you have enough law & concept manip resistance.

And lastly, Anos does have access to his MEoCD in all of his keys, and we have seen Anos use his MEoCD when it was kinda his only option left (See Anos vs Elmide), so unless this battle takes place in the Militia World, or maybe just another world in Anos' verse if I'm being generous, Anos wouldn't have any reason not to use his MEoCD. I also see that you keep arguing that it's out of character for Anos to do this and that (despite appearing to not actually be knowledge on the verse, meaning you wouldn't really know what is in character for Anos), but I'm willing to bet that most verse supporters would agree with me that, regardless of how ridiculous this might seem, it's MUCH more out of character for Anos to lose because he didn't use a power that would've made him win.

Homura's memory hax makes you forget everything (like she made Ultimate Madoka forget the reason she came/materialised in that universe - to save her). With that, she also makes you forget your own identity and your abilities (worked on Madoka and others, even on Homura herself) - which is why I said it's gg after it works on Anos. She affected Madoka, a 2a, omnipresent, abstract type 5 acausal. Tier 7 version of Anos is used here, so no nep for his source, which is why I said the memory hax should work on him. As was said above, this is done subconsciously (at first).

 

[imZer0Null]

Homura's memory hax makes you forget everything (like she made Ultimate Madoka forget the reason she came/materialised in that universe - to save her). With that, she also makes you forget your own identity and your abilities (worked on Madoka and others, even on Homura herself) - which is why I said it's gg after it works on Anos. She affected Madoka, a 2a, omnipresent, abstract type 5 acausal. Tier 7 version of Anos is used here, so no nep for his source, which is why I said the memory hax should work on him. As was said above, this is done subconsciously (at first).

Okay. So Anos just destroys the reason of the memory hax, creates a logical contradiction, and gg.

I forgot Anos doesn't have NEP in his Newly Reincarnated key. Anyways, if she can't overcome Anos' resistance to concept manip, her memory hax is completely useless.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Okay. So Anos just destroys the reason of the memory hax, creates a logical contradiction, and gg.

I forgot Anos doesn't have NEP in his Newly Reincarnated key. Anyways, if she can't overcome Anos' resistance to concept manip, her memory hax is completely useless.

Anos must remember things to do that lol, he can't. Has he ever resisted memory hax?

 

[Randomlamdom]

Yea, if anos needs to activate his eyes first to destroy something then he gets memory haxed
Also his concept resist is for destruction going by his page, which shouldn’t stop her memory hax

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Exactly. People need to realise the effects of Homura's memory hax. Anos won't even know why he's there/will forget about his hax, so he won't be able to activate his eyes/eye.

 

[Dereck03]

I would like to keep debating this but i'm busy rn, so i'm gonna ask and clariffy some things..

Does this version of homura can affect abstract 1? cuz it seems like none in Puella magic is abstract in this key

Also his concept resist is for destruction going by his page

He resisted a lot of concepts haxs in his verse, but we couldn't list all on his profile

Also, don't forget that "regardless of whether anos was affected or not" this magic eye will simply destroy the power making it appear as if anos was never affected.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

I would like to keep debating this but i'm busy rn, so i'm gonna ask and clariffy some things..

Does this version of homura can affect abstract 1? cuz it seems like none in Puella magic is abstract in this key
He resisted a lot of concepts haxs in his verse, but we couldn't list all on his profile

Also, don't forget that "regardless of whether anos was affected or not" this magic eye will simply destroy the power making it appear as if anos was never affected.

Of course. It was mentioned above. Again, doesn't Anos need to consciously activate it? That's what I've gathered based on the info provided.

 

[imZer0Null]

Anos must remember things to do that lol, he can't.

Irrelevant. Anos will just create a contradiction and win. It's like you can't grasp the fact that Anos can literally do things that are normally impossible with his MEoCD...

You also didn't even answer if Homura can overcome Anos' resistance (which isn't just resistance to concept destruction), so I'm gonna assume she can't overcome his resistance, meaning her memory hax is useless.

 

[Livinmeme]

.... That is so stupid i cant see

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Irrelevant. Anos will just create a contradiction and win. It's like you can't grasp the fact that Anos can literally do things that are normally impossible with his MEoCD...

You also didn't even answer if Homura can overcome Anos' resistance (which isn't just resistance to concept destruction), so I'm gonna assume she can't overcome his resistance, meaning her memory hax is useless.

Anos doesn't resist memory hax, does he (a certain Parrington example)? Again, concept destruction =/= memory manip. Again, it seems you're not reading stuff. If it works on him (which it most likely will), Anos will forget he even has the eye (and every other ability he has), so he won't be able to activate it. He needs to know what affected him in order to activate his eye to destroy/neg it.

 

[imZer0Null]

Anos doesn't resist memory hax, does he (a certain Parrington example)? Again, concept destruction =/= memory manip.

An excellent magician can keep their memories in their source, which is the fundamental concept of existence that exists deeper than the body, soul and mind, and even if the physical body perishes, as long as the source is intact, they can be revived. In other words, they can act, "think", and utilize powers with only their source (concept), and therefore have unconventional resistance to conventional powers that affect the soul or mind.

You need to affect Anos' source before you can affect his soul or mind (and memories). She can't overcome Anos' resistance to concept manip, so she won't be able to actually affect his source.

Again, it seems you're not reading stuff. If it works on him (which it most likely will), Anos will forget he even has the eye (and every other ability he has), so he won't be able to activate it. He needs to know what affected him in order to activate his eye to destroy/neg it.

And again, you're not reading what's on Anos' profile page...

This magic eye can make events that will certainly happen and/or already happened never happen, by destroying reason and creating a logical contradiction, therefore unilaterally winning. In other words, as one possible use of this magic eye, Anos can destroy a power after the power already affected him, by destroying the reason of the power and creating a logical contradiction, therefore unilaterally winning, and subsequently nullifying the power's effect as if he was never even affected to begin with;

You keep saying that Anos will forget he even has his MEoCD, but I'm telling you he won't even be affected by her power to begin with.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Two things: (1) his resistance to concept hax is useless, as her memory hax isn't based on it, it just has feats of affecting an abstract entity. (2) It works on an omnipresent, 2a, type 5 acausal entity. Prove Anos can resist that.

 

[imZer0Null]

(1) his resistance to concept hax is useless, as her memory hax isn't based on it, it just has feats of affecting am abstract entity.

So her memory hax can't even affect concepts..? If so, it's even more useless than I thought, since once again, regardless of how powerful the memory hax is, if it can't affect Anos' memories which is kept in his source, it is useless.

(2) It works on an omnipresent, 2a, type 5 acausal entity. Prove Anos can resist that.

Affecting an "omnipresent 2A entity" is just range, and affecting a "type 5 acausal entity" literally just means she can affect type 5 acausals. Nothing here is something that Anos even needs to resist...

 

[kuramamyfav68]

So her memory hax can't even affect concepts..? If so, it's even more useless than I thought, since once again, regardless of how powerful the memory hax is, if it can't affect Anos' memories which is kept in his source, it is useless.


Affecting an "omnipresent 2A entity" is just range, and affecting a "type 5 acausal entity" literally just means she can affect type 5 acausals. Nothing here is something that Anos even needs to resist...

she does affect concepts lol, never said she didn't (I guess I phrased it wrongly). Madoka herself is a concept.

 

[Dereck03]

Is homura Cm strong enough to overcome anos resistance to cm??? i think no since Cm potency and resistances in MG is far stronger than puella magic (That is one of the reasons why Anos almost stomps madoka in a previous thread, but in the end it was decided that Cm Type 1 could not affect Acausality 5 so madoka was saved).

 

[kuramamyfav68]

So her memory hax can't even affect concepts..? If so, it's even more useless than I thought, since once again, regardless of how powerful the memory hax is, if it can't affect Anos' memories which is kept in his source, it is useless.


Affecting an "omnipresent 2A entity" is just range, and affecting a "type 5 acausal entity" literally just means she can affect type 5 acausals. Nothing here is something that Anos even needs to resist...

Her potency. If affecting type 5 acausals/2as doesn't count as potency... I guess Anos stomps.

 

[Orioreeem]

That's just npi

 

[Dereck03]

Her potency. If affecting type 5 acausals/2as doesn't count as potency... I guess Anos stomps.

Range is useless here. Affecting acausality 5 has nothing to do with here, this just like i can win against you cuz i can affect NEP Nature 2 despite me not having NEP

 

[Livinmeme]

Homura cant touch anos memory so... stomp i guess

 

[Orioreeem]

Honestly Anos forgetting to use his eye because of memory hax is pretty good argument, but when you really think about it, it's pretty much "well he is mindhaxed so he won't be able to use his eyes" argument which is...just no.

 

[Livinmeme]

Honestly Anos forgetting to use his eye because of memory hax is pretty good argument, but when you really think about it, it's pretty much "well he is mindhaxed so he won't be able to use his eyes" argument which is...just no.

It get worse when homura cant affect anos mind because "Muh Conceptual mind hax resistance and 99 layers)

 

[kuramamyfav68]

I think Homura's concept hax is baseline (4d)... but 2x2a (range) doesn't matter, right? In that case, Anos does resist her memory hax/stomp.

 

[Orioreeem]

Homura's hax is above baseline and that's just range and it has nothing to so with potency, not to mantion that's just baseline now.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Homura's hax is above baseline and that's just range and it has nothing to so with potency, not to mantion that's just baseline now.

Wait, so is it above baseline? Regardless, Anos has 99x layers of resistance (or at least 21+) 4d ones, right?

 

[Orioreeem]

It is above baseline just for a different reason.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

What's the reason?

 

[Orioreeem]

Probably affected someone who has resistance to it

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Facepalm... I really don't read profiles... yes, I guess it is above baseline. Thanks. I guess he could move up one spot in 7b (and she'd move down one). This can be closed. Can this be added to the profiles, or is this just a stomp now?

 

[Livinmeme]

tbh i am suprised there is no WOD character in number 1

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Wrong thread.

 

[Dereck03]

Kay, i'll ask this to be closed.