Batman vs Captain America | Avengers vs Justice League #1

[GeneralSol16]

Batman vs Captain America​

• SBA, Equalized Speed.
• Win by any means.
• Both as 8-C.

The Living Legend:
The Dark Knight: @Hypertornado099 @Hypertornado099 @Tomfer
Incon:

 

[MrTayman616]

Man who fell from space versus drug user.

 

[Johner2133451]

Doesn't Batman skillstomp the entire verse?

 

[Tomfer]

Doesn't Batman skillstomp the entire verse?

Good joke, but no.

Batman has more versatility and better equipment (and profile), Cap could take it at mid-range with his shield and extremely far better marksmanship feats and he has an enormous LS advantage, so a single grap would be goodbye. Too bad Batman has a good arsenal to take care of this.

 

[Tomfer]

I guess each other's wincons would be

Cap: at medium-range with his marksmanship feats that would demolish Batman.
Batman: far better versatility and gadgets that could incap.

CQC I think it's pretty even, Batman could have a slight advatange since It's been a hot minute since I read a Batman comic.

 

[Johner2133451]

Good joke, but no.

Batman has more versatility and better equipment (and profile), Cap could take it at mid-range with his shield and extremely far better marksmanship feats and he has an enormous LS advantage, so a single grap would be goodbye. Too bad Batman has a good arsenal to take care of this.

Who in marvel has better combat skills than Batman?

 

[Tomfer]

Who in marvel has better combat skills than Batman?

Taskmaster, Daredevil, Shang-Chi.

 

[Johner2133451]

Taskmaster, Daredevil, Shang-Chi.

Has Captain America shown relativity in skill to them?

 

[Tomfer]

Has Captain America shown relativity in skill to them?

Yeah, Cap is at least top 5 of the verse.

 

[Johner2133451]

Yeah, Cap is at least top 5 of the verse.

Could you show scans of Captain america fighting the 3 people you mentioned?

 

[Tomfer]

Could you show scans of Captain america fighting the 3 people you mentioned?

I'll just copy the message I usually send when Cap's envolved:

"Cap's at least top 5 most skilled in the verse as someone who fights and train with people like Nick Fury, Black Panther and Shang-Chi, putting him above the likes of Taskmaster (Marvel, officially, states that Cap is better than Taskmaster). Not only he's a master of every martial arts, but virtually every weapon as well, and he's above Moon Knight, who's the same.

Medium-range is even worse imo, with Cap having Daredevil's level of marksmanship BS, with his aim being natural at this point. And if someone, for some reason, try to catch and use the shield against him, Cap would effortless catch it since no one can do what he can."

There's a Daredevil fight that Cap "wins" but he was being brainwashed. So I don't count it.

 

[Johner2133451]

I'll just copy the message I usually send when Cap's envolved:

"Cap's at least top 5 most skilled in the verse as someone who fights and train with people like Nick Fury, Black Panther and Shang-Chi, putting him above the likes of Taskmaster (Marvel, officially, states that Cap is better than Taskmaster). Not only he's a master of every martial arts, but virtually every weapon as well, and he's above Moon Knight, who's the same.

Medium-range is even worse imo, with Cap having Daredevil's level of marksmanship BS, with his aim being natural at this point. And if someone, for some reason, try to catch and use the shield against him, Cap would effortless catch it since no one can do what he can."

There's a Daredevil fight that Cap "wins" but he was being brainwashed. So I don't count it.

So Cap outskills Batman in combat here?

 

[Tomfer]

So Cap outskills Batman in combat here?

My personal opinion? Marvel's top 5 clears DC's with the exception of Cassandra and those above her. But that's just me.

 

[Emerald]

calling chariot190 in 3... 2...

 

[Hypertornado099]

Doesn't Batman skillstomp the entire verse?

No, you don't need to be super skilled to fight Batman

 

[Hypertornado099]

So Cap outskills Batman in combat here?

Those feats Tomfer brought up aren't as relevant as you might think, mastering all forms of martial arts is impressive but not the greatest skill feat a comic character could have (that scan doesn't actually say Cap has mastered all forms of martial arts by the way). Mastering every weapon is even less relevant here, given Cap only has his standard equipment here, which is his shield and suit. The marksmanship skills are pretty insane, but the battle takes place in Central Park, I doubt there's much for him to ricochet his shield off of, unless Cap throws it with only enough force to be reflected by trees, which isn't gonna hurt Bruce

I'm not sure who wins here, but I could argue some advantages Bruce might have

Cap scales to Bucky, who takes an explosion calced at 0.27 tons of TNT, and has broken ribs afterwards. I don't know if Cap can deal the same level of damage to Bucky, so idk if Cap is equal or just downscales from this feat.

I'm assuming Cap scales to Cable somehow, who took a 0.31 ton explosion while weakened to some extent, and is left too injured to fight at his best

Batman, with an artery cut open, survives an explosion about 1.2 times stronger than the explosion Cable took and is still able to walk afterwards

A single grapple might not be enough to take out Bruce, who can use skill to escape grapples from stronger foes

 

[GeneralSol16]

I'll just copy the message I usually send when Cap's envolved:

"Cap's at least top 5 most skilled in the verse as someone who fights and train with people like Nick Fury, Black Panther and Shang-Chi, putting him above the likes of Taskmaster (Marvel, officially, states that Cap is better than Taskmaster). Not only he's a master of every martial arts, but virtually every weapon as well, and he's above Moon Knight, who's the same.

Medium-range is even worse imo, with Cap having Daredevil's level of marksmanship BS, with his aim being natural at this point. And if someone, for some reason, try to catch and use the shield against him, Cap would effortless catch it since no one can do what he can."

There's a Daredevil fight that Cap "wins" but he was being brainwashed. So I don't count it.

Just GODgers, nothing else to say.

 

[SharkBook01]

I'll just copy the message I usually send when Cap's envolved:

"Cap's at least top 5 most skilled in the verse as someone who fights and train with people like Nick Fury, Black Panther and Shang-Chi, putting him above the likes of Taskmaster (Marvel, officially, states that Cap is better than Taskmaster). Not only he's a master of every martial arts, but virtually every weapon as well, and he's above Moon Knight, who's the same.

Medium-range is even worse imo, with Cap having Daredevil's level of marksmanship BS, with his aim being natural at this point. And if someone, for some reason, try to catch and use the shield against him, Cap would effortless catch it since no one can do what he can."

There's a Daredevil fight that Cap "wins" but he was being brainwashed. So I don't count it.

None of this seems out of Batman's league.

Batman also is a master of virtually every weapon and stomps people who've mastered every single martial art. Even being able to take out entire groups of people who scale above mastering every martial art. Bruce also has statements of combining every single martial art into a single unique style, and then later went on to create a martial art style designed to counter somebody who had all of his own martial arts knowledge.

Batman, unlike Cap shows a much deeper knowledge of pressure points and nerve strikes, straight up being stated to know all of them. Including some random bullshit like pressure points that leave your limbs paralyzed for literal years even after extensive physical therapy. Cap does have some pressure point techniques, but unlike Batman he doesn't really use them that often. Bruce is so good at hitting pressure points that he can do it from a distance by cutting you in the right spot with a Batarang.

We haven't even gotten into Batman's super crazy stealth. The guy can vanish on people with Superman like senses while they're looking right at him. Cap really has zero counter to Bruce's stealth. Nothing stops Bruce from ninja vanishing and then incaping Steve with pressure points or gadgets.

 

[Tomfer]

Y'all missing the point of my reply. It wasn't to argue that Cap would win in a CQC fight nor say that he's above Batman in skill. It's just to say that Batman wouldn't skillstomp, pronto. I already said what you guys are saying in a previous comment.

I quite literally said that in CQC and gadgets, Batman would most likely win.

Batman: far better versatility and gadgets that could incap.

CQC I think it's pretty even, Batman could have a slight advatange since It's been a hot minute since I read a Batman comic.

The marksmanship skills are pretty insane, but the battle takes place in Central Park, I doubt there's much for him to ricochet his shield off of, unless Cap throws it with only enough force to be reflected by trees, which isn't gonna hurt Bruce

This argument is actually pretty silly when you're talking to a guy who can use every part of the battlefield, not just walls. He can legit ricochet on the ground or use Batman's body to do it, lmao.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Y'all missing the point of my reply. It wasn't to argue that Cap would win in a CQC fight nor say that he's above Batman in skill. It's just to say that Batman wouldn't skillstomp, pronto. I already said what you guys are saying in a previous comment.

I know, I was replying to the other guy who asked if Cap outskills Batman in this matchup

This argument is actually pretty silly when you're talking to a guy who can use every part of the battlefield, not just walls. He can legit ricochet on the ground or use Batman's body to do it, lmao.

Batman could just block it

 

[GeneralSol16]

Bump

 

[SharkBook01]

Batman's profile is missing a ton of shit, but I'd still favor him.

• His stealth is so OP that Cap essentially has no counters to him, just ninja vanishing. Even if Cap is looking right at him.
• Bruce scales higher than Cap already, and his explosives up-scale his own AP, so it's likely he could one-shot with certain gadgets.
• Batman has better pressure point feats and is more likely to use them in character, so even if they're relatively equal in skill, Bruce still has an advantage in CQC.
• Batman has a ton of gadgets like sleeping gas and sonic attacks that Cap really doesn't have a good answer to.

Cap's marksmanship feats are very good, but let's not forget that Bruce routinely evades attacks from and defeats Deadshot, someone who is likely a better marksmen than Captain America while using projectiles that are harder to dodge than a shield. Being able to ricochet projectiles is not something new to Batman and he's shown that he can react to projectiles without even seeing them so I find it hard to believe that Cap would just catch Batman off guard by having his shield ricochet off a tree or something like that.

 

[Tomfer]

Bruce routinely evades attacks from and defeats Deadshot, someone who is likely a better marksmen than Captain America

You need to bring far better feats for Deadshot to be even remotely comparable to Cap, because that's extremely weak stuff to whatever Cap has. I agree with all your other points, but saying that this is better than anything Cap has is straight up a lie, lmao.

Imagine saying that hitting a standing still target is above a guy who makes a shield chase like a homing attack at a running guy.

For now, Cap's only wincon seem to be a medium-range, if actual arguments come saying that not even that Cap can achieve, then it's a stomp.

Batman could just block it

That... would still make it ricochet, bro.

 

[SharkBook01]

You need to bring far better feats for Deadshot to be even remotely comparable to Cap, because that's extremely weak stuff to whatever Cap has. I agree with all your other points, but saying that this is better than anything Cap has is straight up a lie, lmao.

Imagine saying that hitting a standing still target is above a guy who makes a shield chase like a homing attack at a running guy.

Deadshot has feats like shooting people in bulletproof suits by hitting them in the seams of their clothes while they're flying, he can shoot bowstrings, was able to ricochet a bullet a bunch of times to shoot himself in a non-lethal spot in his neck to bluff Green Lantern, clear entire rooms of people blind folded while flipping around dodging machine gun fire, can shoot other sniper bullets out of the air, and is supposed to have some sort of vaguely enhanced perception speed that allows him to tag speedsters.

 

[Tomfer]

Deadshot has feats like shooting people in bulletproof suits by hitting them in the seams of their clothes while they're flying, he can shoot bowstrings, was able to ricochet a bullet a bunch of times to shoot himself in a non-lethal spot in his neck to bluff Green Lantern, clear entire rooms of people blind folded while flipping around dodging machine gun fire, can shoot other sniper bullets out of the air,

Honestly... Cap did that and far more in his life, he's not the fodder I thought to be, but I still disagree on putting him to be compable to Cap.

and is supposed to have some sort of vaguely enhanced perception speed that allows him to tag speedsters.

Going to be honest, that seems a bit BS. Otherwise Batman would be equal to speedsters too.

 

[SharkBook01]

Honestly... Cap did that and far more in his life, he's not the fodder I thought to be, but I still disagree on putting him to be compable to Cap..

Post-Flashpoint Deadshot has like way better feats, but I couldn't find any places for scans of his earlier. This feat here of him making a hole with a bullet and then shooting a second bullet through the same hole while mid-air is a better showcase for him.

Going to be honest, that seems a bit BS. Otherwise Batman would be equal to speedsters too.

I don't disagree with that, but it's accepted on the wiki for him.

 

[Hypertornado099]

That... would still make it ricochet, bro.

Then he just blocks it again

Post-Flashpoint Deadshot has like way better feats, but I couldn't find any places for scans of his earlier. This feat here of him making a hole with a bullet and then shooting a second bullet through the same hole while mid-air is a better showcase for him.

Why is avoiding bullets relevant in this matchup?

 

[SharkBook01]

Why is avoiding bullets relevant in this matchup?

The main argument for Cap is that he's a very good marksman and would tag Batman with a shield throw, so I brought up Deadshot as he's a superior marksman and Bruce is still able to beat him and evade his attacks.

 

[Tomfer]

Then he just blocks it again

Then he'll keep going until his arms break lmao.

Post-Flashpoint Deadshot has like way better feats, but I couldn't find any places for scans of his earlier. This feat here of him making a hole with a bullet and then shooting a second bullet through the same hole while mid-air is a better showcase for him.

You'll have to bear with me because that is still not comparable to any feats I showed of Cap. I think there's actual comparable feats somewhere else, but you're gathering the most weak stuff possible.

I don't disagree with that, but it's accepted on the wiki for him.

Can we even use Post-Crisis feats for Post-Flashpoint Batman? Anyway, I wouldn't take such statement seriously, otherwise you're arguing for a speedster combat speed Batman. Which is stupid.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Then he'll keep going until his arms break lmao.

How strong are his shield throws? Everytime it bounces off something, it loses energy. Its also not guarenteed to bounce back towards him, and even if he does, Batman can simply dodge it.

I don't see why they'd be a big threat to him and I'm not really sure why he can't just catch it and toss it aside

The main argument for Cap is that he's a very good marksman and would tag Batman with a shield throw, so I brought up Deadshot as he's a superior marksman and Bruce is still able to beat him and evade his attacks.

Is it that important? Shield throws aren't the only thing Cap can do

I'm gonna vote Batman for superior durability

 

[SharkBook01]

You'll have to bear with me because that is still not comparable to any feats I showed of Cap. I think there's actual comparable feats somewhere else, but you're gathering the most weak stuff possible.

I don't see how being able to shoot sniper bullets out of the air is weaker than what was posted. Even then, I brought up feats of Batman reacting to projectiles without looking, so I doubt he's getting hit by a ricochet shield throw before counterattacking.

Can we even use Post-Crisis feats for Post-Flashpoint Batman?

Post-Flashpoint is stated to be equal in skill and a bit faster than Post-Crisis Batman, so most things PC Batman should be usable for PF Batman.

Anyway, I wouldn't take such statement seriously, otherwise you're arguing for a speedster combat speed Batman. Which is stupid.

I mean, Captain Boomerang at the time was a low-level speedster. He moved FTE to most street tiers, but he wasn't like Flash or Quicksilver tier. I'm moreso just saying that a guy with enhanced perception and superhuman marksmanship loses to Batman more times than not, so I don't see why Cap's marksmanship is enough for him to win here.

 

[SharkBook01]

Is it that important?

On his profile, it's stated that his shield throws upscale his AP.

far higher with Shield Bash/Throw (His shield has, on occasion, damaged/dented Iron Man's armors, and decapitated a non-Adamantium version of Ultron)

 

[Tomfer]

How strong are his shield throws?

Literally on the profile.

Everytime it bounces off something, it loses energy.

That's stupid, if that were to happen, more than half of Cap's feats wouldn't be possible. Dude's just so good that it defies logic, it's a pretty common thing, dunno why even brought that up.

I don't see why they'd be a big threat to him

Then this entire argument falls flat and this is a stomp because that's Cap only wincon here. Batman wins at close range with better stealth, probably better martial arts, and at longe range with better versatility and gadgets.

I don't see how being able to shoot sniper bullets out of the air is weaker than what was posted.

Then DC is starving for markmanship feats, wow.

I'll vote for a stomp then, y'all saying that Cap's medium range wouldn't save him, alongside with the fact that Batman stomps at close and long range. There's nothing Cap can do here.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Can someone help by summarizing the votes?

 

[Hypertornado099]

Literally on the profile.

It just says "far higher" than building level, which doesn't tell me much. Like how strong exactly?

That's stupid, if that were to happen, more than half of Cap's feats wouldn't be possible. Dude's just so good that it defies logic, it's a pretty common thing, dunno why even brought that up.

His feats don't show that the shield doesn't lose energy everytime it bounces off something. Its possible for it to be getting weaker, yet still strong enough to bounce of walls and hurt random foes. But is there anything proving it can do substantial damage to Batman?

Then this entire argument falls flat and this is a stomp because that's Cap only wincon here. Batman wins at close range with better stealth, probably better martial arts, and at longe range with better versatility and gadgets.

That doesn't make it a stomp, Cap is not significantly weaker than Batman given they're both building tier, with only 8x the difference from low end to peak

Batman also doesn't always stomp people he's more skilled than. Foes less skilled than him like Bane can pose a threat. I feel like Cap has a chance here if he can block Bruce's ranged options

Can someone help by summarizing the votes?

Sharkboo and me voted Batman, Tomfer says its a stomp, no one has voted Cap it seems

 

[Tomfer]

His feats don't show that the shield doesn't lose energy everytime it bounces off something. Its possible for it to be getting weaker, yet still strong enough to bounce of walls and hurt random foes. But is there anything proving it can do substantial damage to Batman?

You're just reaching at this point. if his strikes lost energy, it wouldn't bounce as many times as it does, it will just stop mid-air eventually or get stuck somewhere far from his opponents.

Batman also doesn't always stomp people he's more skilled than. Foes less skilled than him like Bane can pose a threat.

Except in that situation, Bane had the field advantage for a moment, taking him by surprise when he wasn't expecting (plus the story needs a good fight). Otherwise, Batman could use anything from his arsenal. Plus Bane himself is an extremely bad example since he's extremely smart and skilled himself, and I'd go further and say that he's more worthy of being Batman's rival than any other of his rogue's gallery.

I feel like Cap has a chance here if he can block Bruce's ranged options

No because Batman still dominates at long range via better stealth, especially since the location will favor him. It's just a matter of waiting and using one of the infinite arsenal he has.

Can someone help by summarizing the votes?

I'll be voting for Batman too.

 

[Tomfer]

@Tomfer

Oh, you already counted my vote. Weird, but I'll let it slide.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Oh, you already counted my vote. Weird, but I'll let it slide.

The other user told me you voted for him

 

[GeneralSol16]

Bump

 

[Hypertornado099]

You're just reaching at this point. if his strikes lost energy, it wouldn't bounce as many times as it does, it will just stop mid-air eventually or get stuck somewhere far from his opponents.

That's only if it loses all its energy, not just a portion of it

Except in that situation, Bane had the field advantage for a moment, taking him by surprise when he wasn't expecting (plus the story needs a good fight). Otherwise, Batman could use anything from his arsenal. Plus Bane himself is an extremely bad example since he's extremely smart and skilled himself, and I'd go further and say that he's more worthy of being Batman's rival than any other of his rogue's gallery.

Bane is probably not as skilled as Cap. My point was that in close range, people less skilled than Batman can pose a threat to him, not that Bane was unskilled

No because Batman still dominates at long range via better stealth, especially since the location will favor him. It's just a matter of waiting and using one of the infinite arsenal he has.

The stealth is an advantage yeah, but Batman is likely to get close and engage in basic H2H. The gear is also an advantage he has, but some can be blocked by his shield and its hard to say what gear he will use in this fight since he has so many