Bastard: Dark Schneider's statistics

[Adam_of_darkness]

Why is dark schneider "possibly universal"? He has solid feats of being universal+ actually


1 and 2-Dark schneider breaking dimensional barrier between hell and earth 3- E

ergy needed to did this equal to amount of energy needed in "creation of universe " aka big bang
Base DKL and uriel destroyed dimensional barrier between hell and earth ,which is a 50-50 shared feat making them half universal each

Note that they survived the blast,which was equal to big bang

Uriel got an 130 boost and DKL matched it,which should make them universal+ atleast


4- DKL also destroys dimensional barriers again,and this time alone


So ,

>Destroys dimensional barrier with uriel which needs energy equal to big bang atleast

>Destroys dimensional barrier alone


DS also has his AoD form,which is shit ton of times stronger than DKL ,he should be "Atleast universal+"

 

[Antvasima]

Universe level+ means an entire 4-Dimensional timeline/space-time continuum. It is considrred to literally be infinitely greater than 3-A.

 

[Adam_of_darkness]

That still doesnt justify his current standings in wiki ,he is listed as "possibly universal" character,which is not true.He had 50% universal power in BASE DKL,which gets 130 boost via scaling to uriel ,2 times

Darsh is way above universe level if we go by multipliers ,while he actually has universe level feat . His tier should be "Atleast 3-A ,possibly high 3-A" instead of "possibly 3-A"

Same for Uriel ,as he matched DKL in power,and was defeated by AoD form

 

[Antvasima]

High 3-A means literally infinite 3-D power. But I suppose that a solid "3-A" ranking, without "Possibly" might be acceptable.

However, I do not know much about Bastard, so I will highlight for more input.

 

[PaChi2]

3-A seems fine.High 3-A is for when you you have infinite 3D power or you have demonstrated 4D level in a galactic way or something. So @OP powering up 130 times doesnt grant you a jump in tier here, you need to be infinitely (literally) superior to a 3-A.

3-A after the 130 Power up seems fine.

 

[Dark649]

If i recall, in the last chapter Sata was impressed of Dark Schneider power.

 

[Adam_of_darkness]

"possibly High 3-A" for DS should be acceptable ,if we take multipliers in account

He also has AoD form,which is many times stronger than DKL .Even tho his AoD form was introduced in last chapters it still has some feats

- One punched full powered uriel.Note that uriel before powerup survived destruction of dimensional barrier,which is universal .And his power was increasing 130 times every time

- Uriel's dispel bounds werent in effect,as DS dispel bounds completly nullified Uriel's dispel bound. Mind you you have to be multiple times stronger than opponent to do this

- Was hyped to be on god's level/Closer to god

- Was stated even satan cant defeat him

But I will appreciate if you can update DS tier as "Atleast 3-A" if you dont want to add higher tier ,and "Atleast 3-A" for uriel also,as he stalemated DKL darsh

 

[Dark649]

- Was stated even satan cant defeat him.

Their final fight as yet to start, i think that Satan (Since in his base form, he is scared of Dark) will transform into the Augoeides in order to overpower him, hence getting upgraded too.

 

[PaChi2]

No. You dont take multipliers into account here. Being 999999999 times 3-A is still finite 3-A. There is no "Possibly High 3-A" based on multipliers (unless its stated to be infinite, of course).

 

[Antvasima]

PaChi2 is correct. Please read our Tiering System page.

 

[Man_from_Shadow]

I am completly fine with 3A Bastard!!.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

the black abyss thing is something Sheoth explained why it wasn't universal+ but i can't remember why. Also multipliers can't be used to make Darsh High 3-A due to the multiplier have to be infinity…The dimensional barriers idk if it was brought up or not in the past

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Dimensional Barrier =/= Spatial Dimensions.

Also, feats are paramount and should take precedence over statements.

Don't use Spatial Dimensions to claim Bastard!! is higher than what we rank it as, it just doesn't work like that.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Matthew.

 

[Adam_of_darkness]

"Dimensional Barrier =/= Spatial Dimensions."

I never said anything related to this tho,dunno why you added this

And I posted statements AND feats

The feat is clear as day.Energy needed to "open" or break dimensional barrier between hell and earth needs energy equal to big bang

Darsh and uriel clash broke dimensional barrier,which needs big bang level output ,while surviving it without any noticable injury

Darsh in DKL form himself broke through dimensional barriers

Yes,I get it he cant be "Possibly high 3-A" but i dont see why cant we put "Atleast 3-A" tier for both DS and Uriel's profile.

 

[Antvasima]

"At least 3-A" implies that he might have infinite energy. Regular 3-A might be fine though, if other staff members agree.

 

[Sheoth]

.....

 

[Antvasima]

Do you think that a regular 3-A rating might be acceptable Sheoth?

 

[Sheoth]

I would if it were actually something new brought to the table. This whole upgrade relies on the the faulty "Big Bang" energy argument, which I already addressed numerous times.

Here for example: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/276407?useskin=oasis

 

[Dark649]

I think not only Dark should be upgraded, possibly Satan, Beelzebub, Abigail and Diane (she is figtning Dark currently).

 

[Adam_of_darkness]

Because there is a chance of him having infinite energy.

-Judas pain is said to absorb infinite energy

- DKL was growing stronger and stronger every second

And the most important , he is compared to god in AoD form,who is the creater of Bastard!! verse (Nigh-omni IMO) ,which gives him enough hype and possibility to be "Atleast 3-A" or "Possibly high 3-A"

But I am cool as long as darsh is "3-A" along with uriel

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

infinite can be taken in many ways sometimes hyperbole making it not 100% reliable to say judas pain can absorb infinite energy that's saying Gara saw Uriel and DKL dash do infinite punches at each other

 

[Antvasima]

@Sheoth Okay. Thanks. Never mind then. Do you wish to insert a footnote explanation into the Dark Schneider page, so we avoid repeat discussions in the future?

 

[Sheoth]

Sure, I can do that. Also, there are discussion rules prohibiting Bastard!! characters from being argued to be upgraded to 4-D or higher, perhaps it would be best to add a note about this specific topic there as well?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. However, I don't know how to word it. I will temporarily unlock the discussion rules and Dark Schneider pages for you, so you can handle it. You can tell me here when you are done.

 

[Sheoth]

Done. Though you may want to reword some of it to how you see fit.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the help.

 

[Antvasima]

@Dark649

I would appreciate if you do not upgrade the Bastard profiles to 3-A, given that Sheoth apparently debunked it repeatedly previously.

If you have done so in any other pages than Dark Schneider, I would appreciate if you revert the edits. Thank you.

 

[Adam_of_darkness]

I dont know what you debunked here in this thread

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/276407?useskin=oasis

Your statement

"But yes Cross, both of these upgrades can't be used and here's why. The Universal feat I debunked a while back ran on the common misconception that the 5.67 billion Tera-Adelhieds of Light energy needed were to break open the Black Abyss, when it was actually needed to break open God's Alcatraz dimension which was holding Dark Schneider at the time. This is a simple misunderstanding that is thrown around on several forum boards, and this person was simply one of them who took Abigail's explanation out of context."

The place where DS was sealed WAS black abyss,aka the dimension which YOU are talking about,where he met satan and the demon army,so again how did you debunked it ? Because I dont see anything else other than "misconceptions" you have about these dimensions

Again,I would say upgrade DS to solid 3-A,there is no reason not to .....same for uriel

 

[Sheoth]

No, you still don't understand. When Abigail said that Big Bang level energy was needed to free Dark Schneider, he was still under the impression that DS was in the Alcatraz Space. The guys on the Ark had no idea that Satan brought DS to hell from Alcatraz, including Abigail. In essence, the Big Bang level energy was needed for the Alcatraz Space, and not the Black Abyss.

Now, with this in mind, knowing that DS and Uriel shattered the Black Abyss and NOT the Alcatraz Space, what are you trying to prove?

 

[Adam_of_darkness]

"No, you still don't understand. When Abigail said that Big Bang level energy was needed to free Dark Schneider, he was still under the impression that DS was in the Alcatraz Space. The guys on the Ark had no idea that Satan brought DS to hell from Alcatraz, including Abigail. In essence, the Big Bang level energy was needed for the Alcatraz Space, and not the Black Abyss."

I dont know from where are you making up things,Satan and DS were both sealed in same dimension

"The guys on the Ark had no idea that Satan brought DS to hell from Alcatraz, including Abigail."

Thats litrally making things up.As soon as DS was sealed satan was already there,indicating they were sealed in same dimension which ws hell .Also it was lucifer who said the ower needed to break through is equal to that of big bang,which was AFTER he was sealed,so even if we say satan "brought" DS to hell (which isnt mentioned anywhere in manga) lucifer escaped from hell,which needed the energy equal to big bang

 

[Sheoth]

I can understand the confusion, but Hell and Alcatraz are 2 separate dimensions as confirmed in volume 21.

Alcatraz (the Sealed Dimension) is described here as a vast dimension imbued with the powers of God's light. As one might assume, Hell is clearly not like this in the story...

THIS is what I am talking about when I say that they are separate planes. The text clearly distinguishes Alcatraz and Hell as separate dimensions that Satan secretly linked to nab Dark Schneider from it. It is in bright plain English my friend: Alcatraz is a separate dimension, which Abigail and Lucifer were both convinced DS was still there and needed the energy of the Big Bang to break DS out of it, and NOT Hell, as they were unaware that Satan had dragged DS to hell from the Alcatraz dimension.

 

[Adam_of_darkness]

Yeah I guess,its pretty clear for me now .I have only read bastard !! once,so I didnt remember this instance...can you specify the chapter no where DS was sealed and this lucifer statement? I would appreciate it.Also do you think alcatraz is more harder to break than hell? Because if satan was imprisoned there,it should be more harder to break by logic

I would just like chapter numbers now to clear my remaining doubts if you can help to get more clear idea.Thanks

 

[Antvasima]

Should we include a link to this thread in the Bastard part of the rules page?

 

[Adam_of_darkness]

I guess,many peeps use this feat iirc ,dunno about wiki tho

 

[Sheoth]

@Antvasima: Yes, that would be a good idea.

@Adam of Darkness: I can't give the specific chapters, but the first scan is from volume 16 (or 15, I don't really recall), and the second scan is from volume 21.

And I don't really know how durable the Black Abyss was in comparison to the Alcatraz dimension. It could be more Durable for all we know, but there are no concrete statements proving this.

 

[Antvasima]

I have now inserted a link to this thread in the discussion rules and Dark Schneider pages.