Based DB MUs Part 3 (SSJ Bardock vs Frieza) (2-0-3)

[CBslayeR]

Bardock fulfills every DB what if youtuber's dream and goes SSJ against First Form Frieza, except he also got a magic zenkai? idk episode of bardock is dumb


Fight takes place on Planet Vegeta, 15 meters apart

Both are High 4-C, Frieza is restricted to his first form.


Bardock saves the Saiyan Race :


Frieza wins but tweaks the **** out, kills Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz in a panic; causing them to never get to earth, leading Babidi to take over the universe fairly easily with no one to contend him, allowing him to kill Shin, which kills Beerus, which causes U7 to likely get erased : 2


No Sun Disk? : 3

 

[CryoTheMayo]

We don't really know how much stronger Bardock is in base form so I'll just assume SS1 Bardock = 1st Form Freeza in stats.

While Bardock is a Saiyan and can grow as he fights I'm more inclined to think Freeza would win. He displays a high skill level against Goku despite lacking Ki Sense and due to his physiology it's going to be way harder for Bardock to put him down than the other way around. Even an enraged Goku's Kamehameha couldn't kill Freeza when he was heavily weakened. And unlike Bardock, Freeza can live and fight while sliced into two. I'd also argue Freeza has way better techniques in the form of Telekinesis, Imprisonment Ball and fast barrage attacks like Death Beam.

So while Bardock could probably build up higher AP via AD and maybe even get a rage power amp, Freeza might have superior skill, has way better technique options, absurd endurance that will make him extremely hard for Bardock to put down and can survive and fight in a state that would kill Bardock (being bisected). To put it another way, Bardock's power increasing isn't going to mean much if Freeza is dealing lethal damage to his body while Freeza's body can handle most, if not all, of the lethal damage Bardock can do to him.

Oh and another serious thing is that since Freeza is fighting in his 1st Form, he's going to be consuming less stamina than he usually would in his Final Form. Comparatively Bardock fighting in Super Saiyan is going to be using more stamina to fight due to the nature of the form. Not nearly as much as Death Battle might claim but still significantly more. That means Bardock will grow weaker faster than Freeza.

Overall, I think Freeza takes this 7/10 or even 8/10 times. So I'm voting Freeza.

 

[Pyro9278]

I was about to argue in favor of Bardock, but I noticed that Freezer's profile was from Toei, so I retracted. Bardock has no chance against Freezer because even if the latter is eventually surpassed by amplifiers like Rage, surely none of Bardock's attacks will be lethal enough to really give him an advantage, while Freezer can seriously injure him and eventually kill him. Even if Bardock somehow manages to break through Freezer's defense and start overwhelming him, Freezer still has useful techniques to subdue him, so the situation remains the same.

Freezer FRA

 

[RedReaper616]

The SSJ drain wouldn't matter because Bardock has his Tail, which reduces/minimizes/gets rid of all the strain and drain of the SSJ forms. GT Goku went from unable to use SSJ3 for longer than like two punches to effortlessly using the form, to put it in perspective. So Bardock's stamina shouldn't be TOO much of an issue, since it's just Bardock's normal Stamina (with his ki pool magnified by 50) being put to the test. That said, Frieza still has a larger moveset and more skill in using Ki whilst Bardock will continue to grow in strength, and Frieza would not play with his food here because it's the Super Saiyan he's facing, the Warrior of Fate/Legend he fears. So I don't see their personalities really limiting them. Given Bardock is a Toei Saiyan, he can survive in the vacuum of space for some time, so blowing up Planet Vegeta won't immediately kill Bardock, but it will put him on a timer to find and go to another Planet to get a fresh breathe of air, which can be taken advantage of since it'd create a massive opening. That said, the amount of power Saiyans jump to mid-fight is pretty notable, so it's really easy to think Bardock just jumps high enough to trounce Frieza. Especially since Bardock had the Zenkais in between the beginning and ending of the Special, so he realistically should be stronger than Frieza.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

The SSJ drain wouldn't matter because Bardock has his Tail, which reduces/minimizes/gets rid of all the strain and drain of the SSJ forms. GT Goku went from unable to use SSJ3 for longer than like two punches to effortlessly using the form, to put it in perspective. So Bardock's stamina shouldn't be TOO much of an issue, since it's just Bardock's normal Stamina (with his ki pool magnified by 50) being put to the test. That said, Frieza still has a larger moveset and more skill in using Ki whilst Bardock will continue to grow in strength, and Frieza would not play with his food here because it's the Super Saiyan he's facing, the Warrior of Fate/Legend he fears. So I don't see their personalities really limiting them. Given Bardock is a Toei Saiyan, he can survive in the vacuum of space for some time, so blowing up Planet Vegeta won't immediately kill Bardock, but it will put him on a timer to find and go to another Planet to get a fresh breathe of air, which can be taken advantage of since it'd create a massive opening. That said, the amount of power Saiyans jump to mid-fight is pretty notable, so it's really easy to think Bardock just jumps high enough to trounce Frieza. Especially since Bardock had the Zenkais in between the beginning and ending of the Special, so he realistically should be stronger than Frieza.

Yeah fair enough on the drain part. I still think Freeza would likely win even if Bardock gets an AP advantage. The problem is that I don't think it can be realistically estimated how much stronger Bardock would become as he fights Freeza nor is there a real value for how strong base Bardock is after Freeza's Supernova.

In regards to seriousness, Freeza probably would be tossing out his usual sadism over facing a Super Saiyan but he would also probably be more cautious because he's restricted to his 1st form in this fight. He has no safety net. I'm quite sure he would be going for lethal attacks continually to put Bardock down ASAP. This fight boils down to who can deal and take the most damage here. Freeza has his absurd survivability, crazy endurance and dangerous paralysis abilities whereas Bardock just has potentially superior AP and no real calculation for how much the AP gap could be.

Because of all of the above I still think Bardock would probably get worn down faster due to his lower endurance and both fighters aiming to kill mercilessly.

 

[CBslayeR]

The SSJ drain wouldn't matter because Bardock has his Tail, which reduces/minimizes/gets rid of all the strain and drain of the SSJ forms. GT Goku went from unable to use SSJ3 for longer than like two punches to effortlessly using the form, to put it in perspective. So Bardock's stamina shouldn't be TOO much of an issue, since it's just Bardock's normal Stamina (with his ki pool magnified by 50) being put to the test. That said, Frieza still has a larger moveset and more skill in using Ki whilst Bardock will continue to grow in strength, and Frieza would not play with his food here because it's the Super Saiyan he's facing, the Warrior of Fate/Legend he fears. So I don't see their personalities really limiting them. Given Bardock is a Toei Saiyan, he can survive in the vacuum of space for some time, so blowing up Planet Vegeta won't immediately kill Bardock, but it will put him on a timer to find and go to another Planet to get a fresh breathe of air, which can be taken advantage of since it'd create a massive opening. That said, the amount of power Saiyans jump to mid-fight is pretty notable, so it's really easy to think Bardock just jumps high enough to trounce Frieza. Especially since Bardock had the Zenkais in between the beginning and ending of the Special, so he realistically should be stronger than Frieza.

Do you have anyone you wanna vote for yet?

 

[RedReaper616]

I’m personally leaning Incon since it just comes down to if Frieza’s hax, endurance, and survivability would outrank Bardock’s superior stats and evolutionary ability.

 

[CBslayeR]

ill count it for FRA trains

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'm leaning towards Incon as well FRA.

 

[CBslayeR]

bump

 

[Omegas03]

Wait to what value do each of them scale?

(In wikia anyways because by general PLs Bardock as of EoB should be >> 10k bc near death zenkai so if he at least reaches 600k+ he has a comfortable AP advantage inside the same verse you don't need an outrageous AP gap to stomp your opponent).

Frieza has way better endurance so bro is NOT going down easily, but Bardock gets the AP advantage and RE. On top of that I would argue hes somewhat a better fighter

This probably gonna play out similarly to SSJ Goku vs Frieza on Namek except Bardock will be bloodlusted af.

Thing is that idk if Bardock is killing Frieza before the later just cheap shots the entire planet and we all know that Saiyans are allergic to space. Its either Bardock or Incon for me.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Wait to what value do each of them scale?

(In wikia anyways because by general PLs Bardock as of EoB should be >> 10k bc near death zenkai so if he at least reaches 600k+ he has a comfortable AP advantage inside the same verse you don't need an outrageous AP gap to stomp your opponent).

AFAIK there is no AP value for Bardock. His base form is just scaled as nebulously above King Vegeta. And imo bringing up 600k+ as significant isn't totally correct. The gap between SS Goku and FP Freeza was 1.25x. The gap between 530k and 600k is something like 1.13x. FP Freeza, especially the Toei version, put up a good fight against SS Goku despite the sharp skill gap. And Freeza exhausted all his energy and still survived Goku's Kamehameha.

Frieza has way better endurance so bro is NOT going down easily, but Bardock gets the AP advantage and RE. On top of that I would argue hes somewhat a better fighter

Bardock has zero scaling against good fighters like Goku, Vegeta, etc. He has some solid feats fighting against groups but the best he fights is Dodoria. That's unlike Freeza who has scaling against master martial artists and has vastly superior techniques like TK, Imprisonment Ball, Barrage Death Beam, etc whereas Bardock pretty much only has ki blasts and a one-handed energy wave.

This probably gonna play out similarly to SSJ Goku vs Frieza on Namek except Bardock will be bloodlusted af.

The difference is that Freeza isn't allowed to power up into his higher forms. Meaning he'll get desperate faster. Namek Freeza had the copium of having his 100% in reserve.

Thing is that idk if Bardock is killing Frieza before the later just cheap shots the entire planet and we all know that Saiyans are allergic to space. Its either Bardock or Incon for me.

The reason that Freeza chose to have a prolonged fight with SS Goku instead of just blowing up Namek was to test his full power against a worthy opponent. Toei could be different from the manga in characterisation but unless someone proves otherwise I doubt it. So Freeza lacks any incentive to toy around here. He can't go full power, he can only use his 1st form. That means he'll have no qualms just nuking the planet and being done with it.

As for whether or not Freeza can do that, he did it against SS Goku while Goku was in the middle of preparing a Kamehameha and Freeza was at 50% Power (he doesn't show 70% until later to blow Goku back). So Freeza can definitely cheapshot Planet Vegeta.

 

[CBslayeR]

FYI the reason I restricted Second Form was so Frieza didn't just slaughter lmao

 

[CryoTheMayo]

FYI the reason I restricted Second Form was so Frieza didn't just slaughter lmao

Yeah, of course. I would think the characters would react to the restrictions though right? Freeza IC is going to be more desperate if he can't transform in my mind.

 

[CBslayeR]

Yeah, of course. I would think the characters would react to the restrictions though right? Freeza IC is going to be more desperate if he can't transform in my mind.

Idk how VSBW treats them in mindset I always just assumed it was a mentality thing and not them being forced into it, like in Frieza's case of "Oh I don't need it to eliminate this glowing monkey."

 

[CBslayeR]

Also it ruins the meme of these threads of them not having relative PLs to allow transformations

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Idk how VSBW treats them in mindset I always just assumed it was a mentality thing and not them being forced into it, like in Frieza's case of "Oh I don't need it to eliminate this glowing monkey."

Well, regardless of how the VSBW would treat a form restriction IC I think my argument that Freeza will be less interested in fighting due to not using his full power would still stand. It's the primary reason he chose to fight SS Goku instead of just blowing up Namek instantly.

 

[Omegas03]

AFAIK there is no AP value for Bardock. His base form is just scaled as nebulously above King Vegeta. And imo bringing up 600k+ as significant isn't totally correct. The gap between SS Goku and FP Freeza was 1.25x. The gap between 530k and 600k is something like 1.13x. FP Freeza, especially the Toei version, put up a good fight against SS Goku despite the sharp skill gap. And Freeza exhausted all his energy and still survived Goku's Kamehameha.

I said '600k'+ as a "conservative" estimate (10k was being close to King Vegeta so I thought 12k base was a safe bet) as I honestly think he should be around 700k in SSJ but just assuming what kind of zenkai boost was Bardock gonna get from almost dying to Frieza is just headcanon so I'll drop this argument altogether.

Bardock has zero scaling against good fighters like Goku, Vegeta, etc. He has some solid feats fighting against groups but the best he fights is Dodoria. That's unlike Freeza who has scaling against master martial artists and has vastly superior techniques like TK, Imprisonment Ball, Barrage Death Beam, etc whereas Bardock pretty much only has ki blasts and a one-handed energy wave.

I am conceding this one, my argument is that Bardock at that point had a lot more experience fighting when at a disadvantage (groups, ppl stronger than him) but yep Frieza scales to better martial artists so it doesn't help my case I guess. does fighting Chilled help my case hes a space pirate too after all

The difference is that Freeza isn't allowed to power up into his higher forms. Meaning he'll get desperate faster. Namek Freeza had the copium of having his 100% in reserve.

The reason that Freeza chose to have a prolonged fight with SS Goku instead of just blowing up Namek was to test his full power against a worthy opponent. Toei could be different from the manga in characterisation but unless someone proves otherwise I doubt it. So Freeza lacks any incentive to toy around here. He can't go full power, he can only use his 1st form. That means he'll have no qualms just nuking the planet and being done with it.

As for whether or not Freeza can do that, he did it against SS Goku while Goku was in the middle of preparing a Kamehameha and Freeza was at 50% Power (he doesn't show 70% until later to blow Goku back). So Freeza can definitely cheapshot Planet Vegeta.

Ok this is true. But Bardock will likely start advantageous (AP wise anyway) and he'll fight bloodlusted like from the start considering his usual mindset and even the fight against Chilled.

Which means the debate here is still the same

would Bardock get the W before Frieza gets desperate enough and capitalizes on any potential distraction from him to planet bust and call it a day? (I doubt he'll planet bust from the very start).

 

[CBslayeR]

leave a vote teehee

 

[Omegas03]

Count me on incon fra.

 

[CBslayeR]

bump