Base Thanos Revision

[Hazzeyy]

Thanos in the past 2-3 years has shown that he is clearly a lot stronger than people give him credit for. I can give several feats off the bat that should place him Multi-Universe+ to Multiversal in Base alone.

https://imgur.com/a/kpAOF

-Stated by his Future avatar that he would surpass Skyfathers, Celestials, and even Galactus (who are multi-galaxy to beyond universal levels).

https://imgur.com/YNQZ8J2

https://imgur.com/cz7Tiih

-Was the only one who survived several firings of a weapon that wiped out the entire celestial race, Galactus, Thor, Hulk, Silver Surfer, etc

(could be argued the weapon didn't fire at full capacity, but this aligns with what the future avatar told him about Thanos surpassing those aforementioned)

https://imgur.com/GQUKzMX

-Survived the entire reality being destroyed by Adam Warlock

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hFaaDa45U...Pi4fyRmacYckIboB5W6u9GP1LeTjNpJ-UuxU76D=s1600

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/W6iHueJRFh...-vWFyfQCCEVAFwLQqSWPq2Cak02EK9230Lg1OPE=s1600

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/jZeMnZBeVs...-nNbNLGE0kmYU_R-nkQ-nA7zHmWDTnQO9vyGYCo=s1600

-Thanos and Adam Warlock both defeated projections of themselves that had shaped the realities to their own will, leaving Infinity and Eternity powerless to stop it.

https://imgur.com/DMl3H6x

-Stated only those near the levels of Eternity and Infinity would remember the reality being destroyed.

https://imgur.com/AKfbE0N

-In Thanos Wins, he was able to defeat Old King Thor (who should be comparable to Odin who has also shown universal+ level feats)

https://imgur.com/a/3qucI

-Defeated Galactus, Mistress Love, Sire Hate, Infinity, and the Living Tribunal

(PIS could be argued for Thanos defeating the Celestials using Black Bolt, but this is a Thanos who has grown in power immensely and killed a TLT M-Body regardless)

No complete details on how Thanos defeated the abstracts thus far, but going by statements and feats of his youth, it would make sense that he is at those levels without the IG, cosmic cube, or the infinity gems.

 

[Antvasima]

Please read here: Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics

Marvel is recurrently extremely inconsistent and illogical, but 4-B is an extremely wide tier, and Thanos is usually not presented as astronomically stronger than characters such as Thor, Hulk, and the Silver Surfer.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask Matthew to comment here if you want some help.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Multiversal Base Thanos is a quite absurd ranking which for some reason people insist on.

Thanos and Adam Warlock remember the Pre-Timeline rewriting events because they were the ones responsible for the rewrite in the first place. Marty McFly isn't a cosmic being because he altered the past and future and remembered the original timeline.

They also didn't tank universal destruction, they just weren't hit by the explosion.

They also didn't defeat their versions which were empowered by the HOTU / Nexus, they simply merged with them.

We have no knowledge of how Future Thanos did all his feats. If it is through sheer power alone he would likely be 2-A.

 

[Antvasima]

Current Thanos could stand up to future Thanos, and he is afraid of the Silver Surfer, so it seems to be an extremely inconsistent story.

 

[Hazzeyy]

Even in his early days, Thanos was still shown to be astronomically stronger than Surfer, Thor, and Hulk. Thor with the Power gem was unable to beat Thanos. Thanos has mollywopped Beta Ray Bill, Ronan the Accuser, and Silver Surfer at the same time. He even gave Tyrant a tough fight even though Tyrant casually destroyed Gladiator, BRB, Silver Surfer, and Terrax. His shields were strong enough to take hits from Omega Thanosi who is at least twice as strong as a regular Galactus.There are dozens of other examples in which he has shown to consistently be above them and near Skyfather levels even prior to his amp.

If Current Thanos could stand up to Future Thanos, he wouldn't be so obedient when he told him to not disrespect Death. Because he would have ended him then and there, which Current Thanos complied with.

If you actually read the end of the comic, Thanos said The Fallen One is a title and not a being. If he defeated Galactus, there would be no reason for him to be afraid of Surfer. Norrin is merely leading the wave that's supposed to fight him.

 

[Hazzeyy]

It's not absurd going by what Future Thanos has done (in which we don't even see him using an IG, cosmic cube, or an infinity stone) and by what his future avatar told him. Adam Warlock himself had power of the Living Tribunal, meaning it would make sense with him being at least near the level of Infinity and Eternity. Thanos did not expect to survive the blast, yet he did, and even Warlock was surprised and did not mean to cause such event in the first place. Not to mention, even his avatars with working copies of the IG were wiped from the explosion as well.

Their own projections had shaped the realities to their own image, and both abstracts were unable to do anything. Yet Thanos and Warlock were both able to defeat said versions to rewrite the reality. Meaning Thanos showed direct abstract levels of power (multi-universal bare minimum) in Base. This is undeniable.

Regardless, Thanos being the only one to tank several attacks from a weapon that killed the Celestials and Galactus would place him beyond universal levels BARE minimum. The statement about him surpassing the abstracts has finally taken place in Thanos Wins.

I even said, we don't know how he defeated the abstracts, but it is very likely he did it through his own power and going by what happened in the Infinity Finale.

Base Thanos- Universe+ to Multi-Universe+ bare minimum

Future Thanos- Multiversal bare minimum (until we get further details)

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Thanos isn't Universe+ to Multi-Universal in base, lol no.

I could see Multi-Solar System level at best. That's it. And even then that would make it impossible for the likes of Thor to deal chip damage to him.

 

[Hazzeyy]

>offers no valid counterarguments

I gave scans, context, and my rebuttals to your downplay. Consistency has him in the galaxy ranges of power going by his battles against Galactus, Odin, and Tyrant.

Thor and Silver Surfer have shown multi-solar system levels of power, and at times even galaxy level. Thanos has roflstomped them even prior to his amp.

 

[Antvasima]

The problem is that neither Odin nor Galactus were remotely presented at their full scale of power when Thanos fought them, and even so he was outmatched. Marvel's extreme levels of inconsistency essentially strike again, as usual, and if we went by inconsistent matchup portrayals, Iceman would be 1-A, and Cyclops and the Black Panther High 1-B.

In addition, Thanos was amplified by an external power source when fighting Tyrant, and a clone of Galactus is technically nonsense, as a force of nature does not have DNA, nor does it simply leave a small crater in a planet when unleashing its full power, regardless of a force field in the way.

Our border for Multi-Solar System level is a trillion times higher than regular Solar System level. Has Thanos usually been presented as considerably stronger than Thor and the Surfer? Yes. Has he been presented as a trillion times stronger? No, not remotely.

 

[Antvasima]

Then again, Marvel's staggering amounts of inconsistency makes it extremely hard to properly power-scale characters, and Thor has semi-regularly been able to fight characters around Odin's level, so I suppose that Thanos might have a slightly higher tier than he has now, in-between the two, i.e. 4-A, but since he has no destructive feats remotely of that scale, it makes him very hard to properly evaluate.

 

[Hazzeyy]

Odin and Galactus had already been shown and/or stated to be galaxy if not universal tier. Odin was stated to be galaxy tier before he had faced off against Thanos. The battle between Galactus and Mephisto took place before the battle between Thanos and Galactus, in which galaxy levels were a thing. Thanos has consistently shown to be above Surfer and Thor, and near the levels of Skyfathers. He was a bit amped against Tyrant, but Tyrant had a much larger amp than Thanos and didn't win so easily. Cyclops and Black Panther have not shown to be consistently in those tiers. Not to mention when Thanos was dead and didn't have a shield, his body was intact when Galactus wiped a galaxy clean and destroyed several star systems while starving.

Regardless, due to his feats in the Infinity Trilogy, he should be universal+ if he has surpassed both Skyfathers and Celestials bare minimum. Future Thanos defeating Old King Thor further proves this. This current Thanos is stronger than Thanos has ever been before.

 

[Antvasima]

Marvel writers were incredibly inconsistent in their portrayals of character power levels even before the entire company went fundamentalist demagogue, especially as there were hundreds of them, and few were keeping track of, or cared, what the others were doing decades ago. Just because some characters were of a certain level in one story, this does not mean that they were remotely presented at that scale in another.

For example, Thor has varied between tier 9-B (knocked out by a handgun) to 3-B (prevented the destruction of 1/5th of the universe), but we have to try our best to estimate a tier that is not based on outliers.

Also, Thanos only withstood a very small dispersed part of Galactus' attack that destroyed at least 3 solar systems, along with the Annihilation Wave.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

he was actually more or less on point-blank but he died, albeit wasn't carbonized or anything. Not that it matters.

 

[Hazzeyy]

Which, as I said, you have to go with the consistency "mode" or the mean "average" range of power. You can compare it to grades in school. Say you have an A, 3 Bs, 1 C, and 1 D. Would you be considered an A student or an F student? Neither. You'd either be considered a B student based on consistency or a C-B student going by the average. Standard Thor has SEVERAL feats and scaling above star levels to multi-solar system, some in galaxy ranges, and very few in universal ranges.

His body was still intact even after being in the blast radius that covered hundreds of thousands of light years that wiped out star systems. Regardless, none of this justifies Thanos not being in those aforementioned levels.

These recent feats are not outliers. Thanos has been growing in power for quite some time now.

 

[Antvasima]

Thor does not have several feats above the solar system range, unless you use outlier power-scaling from fighting characters such as Zeus, Cul, and Bor, or surviving force blasts from the Celestials when they were first introduced, and did not yet remotely reach as high levels as currently.

Again, we have to try to use a certain amount of consistency in our tiers, and even if we scale Thanos as being, say 10x stronger than Thor and the Surfer, that would still be well within 4-B.

That said, characters such as Thanos and the depowered Tyrant are very hard to properly estimate, as they are supposed to be in-between Thor and Odin in terms of power, and Marvel is not exactly precise/realistic in terms of scaling, or most of their matchup battles would end with a single strike that instantly kills the opponent.

 

[Antvasima]

What do you think Matthew?

 

[ByAsura]

I know this isn't my kind of thread, but yeah, Thanos is pretty damn inconsistent - These are all Thanos, not a clone. I'd just like this to be of note; i know you said Thanos with in 2-3 years, however, this shows that he's always been inconsistent.

- https://imgur.com/a/1v7SE#0 - https://imgur.com/a/Ls5Dh#0

- https://imgur.com/a/s3At8#0

- i.imgur.com/T2xw5u5.png

- https://imgur.com/a/vQLgz#0

- https://imgur.com/a/aBZZB#0

- https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...22GprJk5Oh-9sEzQq9_HotnbGkEh54G-Wnv9xZxKNiyLS - The image is small, so i'll explain; he tanks a blast from Celestials.

- i.imgur.com/PkmbS6U.png

- i.imgur.com/fHX9Saa.jpg

- https://imgur.com/a/imqfa#0

- https://imgur.com/a/J5j2F#0 - Annihilus has the Hulk's power here.

Thanos is really like Superman, his powers and abilities vary so much because of the writers.

Also, i am not taking a side here.

 

[Hazzeyy]

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111196008/6006887-2.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...r+surfer+and+dr+doom+-+fantastic+four+#59.jpg

Even pre-Annihilation Surfer could tank several solar systems being destroyed on him while off guard. He even claimed his power cosmic could wipe out a galaxy (whether in a short amount of time or not would still determine multi-ss levels).

Thor has been able to damage him and his godblasts could hurt people like Surtur and Majeston Zelia. This exponentially boosts his attacks.

Thor could also match Sentry who has literal power of a million suns. He could even keep up with Void Sentry (mentally unstable).

inb4 "everyone else who fought sentry must be multi ss level then"

-Sentry has different levels of stability when he fights, and when he had DS he one shotted Thor.

http://i.imgur.com/JDVhiog.jpg

Thor was also able to tank attacks stated to be of exploding suns and also tanked an attack from a powerful Thanosi clone, who even with extreme lowballing would be multi-ss level.

https://i.imgur.com/3ZaB1Vp.png

He also survived a bomb that wiped out a solar system sized spaceship.

Even Classic Thor and Surfer were multi-ss level and are currently stronger.

There is also some feat where he and Surfer fight against Galactus and they tear the fabric of the universe or something along the lines of that.

There is also a guidebook that claims Surfer had destroyed several star systems when he fought Thanos. I will post them when I find them.

Regardless, Current Thanos> Skyfathers and Celestials. Current Thanos IS NOT Classic Thanos.

 

[Antvasima]

Again, we have to find feats that are not outliers to scale from in order to get reasonable rankings, as Marvel is likely the most inconsistent fictional setting in existence when it comes to character power levels, especially in relation to each other.

A million exploding suns is not particularly high within the 4-B tier, as it takes creating an omnidirectional explosion that wipes out several solar systems to rate as 4-A, or more likely "At least 4-B". You can check and compare the current energy borders yourself in our Attack Potency page.

The only thing that we might even consider is to rate base Thanos (and Tyrant) as 4-A. Anything higher than that is a massive Plot-Induced Stupidity Outlier. Your insistence to rate them as 2-C or higher, is so completely irrational and exaggerated that it will never be accepted.

I would appreciate if you read the Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics page, follow our standards and conventions, and immediately drop this subject, because I am getting extremely tired of humoring you, am very busy, and do not have limitless time and energy.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, please stop quoting long posts. It spams the thread with unnecessary text, and makes it messy and harder to follow.

 

[ByAsura]

@Hazzey

His God Blast is inconsistent, one moment he almost one shots people who are comparable to him, the next he has the capability to kill MSS Galactus (who's far stronger than Thor {Even with hammer a normal blow barely hurts starving Galactus}), and then he's Multiversal with it.

- Hurts a Being with Odin's power.

- Doesn't do anything to Juggernaut.

- Can kill Galactus.

- Hurt Exitar.

After Sentry absorbed extra solar energy and became a horseman, before that he could consistently fight Hyperion, Blue Marvel, Thor, Angry Hulk, and Hercules on even grounds, even when letting loose and confident.

Doing that much damage to space and time is total outlier, which is consistently mentioned by the Wiki - all feats like this are total outliers, it happens so much in comics, especially with Post Crisis Superman, and even the Small Planet Level John Bryne Superman.

Over what time frame did they destroy multiple solar systems?

Some of those feats can be SS - Thor tanking a Solar System sized ship exploding, powerful as 1 million suns, and quite likely destroying many solar systems in a fight.

 

[Hazzeyy]

@Antvasima

Attributing it to inconsistency only disregards the higher ends like Surfer defeating Aegis & Teneberous or Thor damaging Amatsu-Mikaboshi. The feats and statements I've shown are not inconsistent by any means.

Your mistake is still thinking that Thanos is the same strength than he was in those earlier battles. I have given several statements and feats to prove Thanos has surpassed Skyfathers and Celestials at the very minimum. Your ways of determining how powerful characters are is flawed as I have covered in my Android 18 & Ribrianne post. Even the most briefest or lowest of showings makes them universal, yet Thanos performing several feats of a higher magnitude that does not contradict recent events is an "outlier."

I sense strong bias.

@F

It doesn't change the fact that the godblast has been used to damage beings far stronger than Thor could do with his normal attacks. That's the point. Not to mention some of those are from different periods when Galactus and Odin-tier characters were not as strong as they are now or shortly after, as with Celestials as well.

There is no counterargument that can be given for Thanos' recent feats. Because both of you are still under the assumption that this Thanos has the same level of power that he did before which he clearly does not.

I am being offered moot points. "oh its inconsistent" "its an outlier"

Why is it so hard to accept that Thanos has grown far stronger than ever before?

 

[ByAsura]

Such is already listed on his profile, and only uses proper ones, not Mult Galaxy Level, because it's only gotten so high a few times in comparison.

That is not my point, mine is against the MSS stuff.

I am not saying that those feats are inconsistent, though i did offer feats showing that Thanos is, and he still is. I said shattering time is inconsistent, not the Multiversal Thanos.

I'm fine with it - though the wiki is not due to the Power Scaling Rules.

 

[Hazzeyy]

>Was

Keyword. Was. The Thanos I am arguing for is far stronger than the one you posted scans for. It's like implying that Naruto from his fight against Madara has the same level of power as the one from Part 1.

@Ant- Post Topic Closing

That's what I just said. If I was going to use outliers I would have mentioned said feats.

Thanos is stronger than he was before. Trying to discredit his growth in power due to past showings is illogical because they aren't even the same strength level to begin with.

So, you being unable to counterargue official feats and scans is me trolling?

Comics, like other media are inconsistent, doesn't mean that a character that has clearly surpassed his earlier levels should be disregarded.

I accept your concession.

 

[ByAsura]

Yes, i know, but that's not my point.

Post Topic Closing;

That is not Ant's point, it's still inconsistent at that time period is what he's saying.

Ant never said he didn't get stronger - He said SS is too high a tier in comparison to other SS characters like Thor -

"Again, we have to try to use a certain amount of consistency in our tiers, and even if we scale Thanos as being, say 10x stronger than Thor and the Surfer, that would still be well within 4-B".

"Our border for Multi-Solar System level is a trillion times higher than regular Solar System level. Has Thanos usually been presented as considerably stronger than Thor and the Surfer? Yes. Has he been presented as a trillion times stronger? No, not remotely".

There's also what Matt said -

"I could see Multi-Solar System level at best. That's it. And even then that would make it impossible for the likes of Thor to deal chip damage to him".

 

[Antvasima]

I have read several thousands of Marvel comics over the years. I like the characters fine, even if I dislike the current Marvel writers' onesided activist political propaganda, and have nothing against Thanos, but your example of Thor damaging an entity capable of destroying the multiverse is exactly what I have been referring to: Complete outliers that make no logical sense.

If we followed your type of logic, the handgun that knocked out Thor is High 1-B, by scaling from Mikaboshi.

What we are trying to do is a very difficult task that is the opposite of your type of extreme cherry-picking bias that would end up with every single Marvel character as High 1-B or 1-A. We are taking into account that Marvel tends to allow any character to fight any other character, no matter how outmatched they logically should be, and power levels that constantly go up and down the tiers like yo-yos, and find a balanced estimation of their abilities, generally based on their own feats.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, you are being so unreasonable and extreme in your arguments that I am starting to suspect that you are just trolling to waste time that I do not have available to spend.

 

[ByAsura]

@Ant

Yeah, i hate how comics are getting political as well, not appealing to reality is my favourite part about comics.

Should this finally be closed since there are rules establised?

Should this potentially become a discussion rule in case this is brought up again?

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed, they are not entertaining anymore. The creators generally just want to brainwash and control people.

Anyway, yes, I will close this, and Hazzeyy is forbidden from bringing up this topic again, as I and Matthew do not have the time and energy to continue to argue with him.