• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Bartz vs Nero (Saber Venus)

Status
Not open for further replies.
So, Bartz's AP and Dura are many times lower can Nero's. He'll need lots, and lots of hits to eventually wear down Nero, whereas she can probably snap Bartz in two with just a couple of hits. Her Aestus Domus Aurea only worsens this problem... Hax is definitely the game Bartz would have to play... the problem, though, is that almost all of his hax is magic-based. On top of having exceptional Magic resist as a Saber-class Servant, Nero's absorption of the power of the Root of the Beginning seems to give her additional resistance against basically every kind of hax known to man- certainly most everything Bartz seems to have readily available, at least- and has a few Resurrections in her pocket to counter Bartz's.

That said, I'd not call Bartz helpless... Dualcast is really going to help out a lot as far as his action economy goes, assuming he can keep it up for any significant period of time, and if his Libra is precise enough (and assuming it does actually work) he might be able to figure out what hax are more likely to work, relatively speaking, and thus not waste time trying for like, the 1% chance or whatever everything else would need to work (ex. I don't see anything specific about BFR resist on Nero's profile, so it'd just have to pierce Magic Resist if it landed). I guess he's also more versatile, a little bit? (More elemental types than fire/light, at least) And Blue Magic might allow him to snag one of Nero's attacks... again, though, Magic Resistance across the board really shuts down a lot of what fantasy characters do. Summons would probably also help to some degree...

Idk. Bartz can probably pull off at least 1, 2, maybe 3 wins of 10, but Saber's got Bartz's hax pretty much on lockdown with Magic Resistance to the point where she can consistently win against him more often than not, far as I can tell.
 
Well Bartz can debuff Nero in numerous ways to counteract the AP advantage, like shrinking her, and if push does come to shove, he can try to BFR her if he wants.
 
I like Bartz better, but I'm going to have to side with Nero for reasons above.
 
Well, blanket Magic Resist would probably take care of most of these things, but... I just checked, and apparently all of this particular Saber's extra Parameters are E rank? I can't really find the official parameter rank on the Type-Moon wiki, but it is said here at least that its pretty low for a Saber.

So, I guess the chances of blocking that are fairly low? Though he'd have to use that first, and it doesn't really seem like the sort of technique he'd think to use first.

...out fo curiosity, does Bartz's Blue Magic target himself after being targeted by an attack, or the enemy who used that attack? If it targets himself, then that probably boosts his winrate by virtue of being able to copy a technique or two of Nero's without bothering about Magic Resist.
 
It just copies the attack from the enemy. He can take it a step further with the mimic class.
 
ThePerpetual said:
Well, blanket Magic Resist would probably take care of most of these things, but... I just checked, and apparently all of this particular Saber's extra Parameters are E rank? I can't really find the official parameter rank on the Type-Moon wiki, but it is said here at least that its pretty low for a Saber.
So, I guess the chances of blocking that are fairly low? Though he'd have to use that first, and it doesn't really seem like the sort of technique he'd think to use first.

...out fo curiosity, does Bartz's Blue Magic target himself after being targeted by an attack, or the enemy who used that attack? If it targets himself, then that probably boosts his winrate by virtue of being able to copy a technique or two of Nero's without bothering about Magic Resist.
Click to expand...
Blue magic on its own requires bartz to be targeted by the attack to actually learn the blue magic in mind. However, with Mimic, all he needs to do is see the attack to use it, seemingly without limit. So he can do what you're suggesting, but it wouldn't be blue magic that allows him to do it.
 
As Glass mentioned, and Omega explained, he can copy it without being targeted by using Mimic. Also, Bartz has no specific battle style he uses since he's an RPG character. We could surely have him start the battle with Banish if we wanted.
 
That's... no? He's still his own character with his own personality, or at the very least has the personality of a blank slate, that's not an excuse for him to get the (relative to him) Omniscient guidance of real-world Versus debaters that know under what conditions he might win or lose.
 
I didn't say that. I'm just saying that it wouldn't be out-of-character for him to start the battle with Banish since he has no actual in-character way of starting battles.
 
@Perp

Stats are secondary to actual feats.

She's fought Servants as powerful as Gawai and Karna and won, albeit while doing prep to make sure he doesn't activate Numeral of the Saint and while the latter was severely gimped by a lack of mana (but was still strong enough to fight and impress Gilgamesh of all people).

But since this is the Saber Venus version that doesn't really matter.

Saber Venus doesn't have her Mythological Mystic Code's resistances... so... I'd say that Bartz should take this once he starts whipping out hax.

In addition, Nero's Magic Resistance isn't very strong and won't hold up very well against Bartz's high-tier spells.
 
I didn't argue that, either, I just argued that it's not especially likely he goes for it first given how utterly massive his movepool seems to be.

How does her Imperial Privelege work again? All of her skills start out really low, but she can wish for one to jump up extremely high for some period of time? Because if she grants herself A rank magic resist with that then yeah, she probably blows Bartz out of the water, but... is that a skill she can target with that? And would she do that, in character? I guess if Bartz leads with Dualcasting and spamming various magic spells, to throw it all at the proverbial wall and see what sticks, but otherwise she might put it into something else. Hmm.
 
@Perp

That's still a good point.

Imperial Privilege works like this: Nero believes she can do something, let's say pilot a ship. Even if she has never done it before, as long as there is some basis (i.e. "I can pilot this ship easily because the controls are just like the jet-powered chariot I made!") she'll instantly gain the corresponding skill needed to do what she wants to do. As a result, she'll gain the Riding skill and will be able to make a sailboat warship do a wheelie without any wind blowing.

It doesn't work if Nero doesn't have any basis for learning the skill. So it'll work with magic to an extent due to her meeting with Simon Magus in her lifetime. She wouldn't be able to learn how to cook since she never had to do it herself in her lifetime.

In addition, her short attention span, mental illness, and migraines will make her lose most of the skills she gains over time aside from her Swordsmanship, Riding, Fine Arts, Charisma, and Military Tactics.
 
So she'd have to devote some attention to renewing whatever skill she chose to amp with Imperial Privelege, I take it? Or can it not be used twice in succession on the same skill parameter, or something?
 
Oh yeah, I forgot about some other possible hax abilities that Butz may have. Didn't have have some kind of spell that automatically revives him to full health if he dies? There's also the whole duel casting, summons, ect. Age manipulation might also help if what Reppu says is true.

Switching my vote to the Butz, (Bad puns aside, but his other name rhymes with Fartz)
 
@Perp

Yeah, she'd have to relearn the skills in time once she forgets them.

@Medeus

The revival only works on allies. He can't cast it on himself if he's dead.

Age Manipulation probably won't help since Servants in general aren't subject to aging unless they obtain a physical body.

Butz is actually Bartz's Japanese name.
 
Oh yeah, I actually noticed Nero scales to a 10.4 to 56.3 Ninaton calc where as, the best calc I can find for the 5-A end of Butz's profile is the 300 Yottaton calc Kefka has; which scaled to Gilgamesh and then to Butz. If Galaxy level was used, it be a different story, but 33x AP difference is still a stomp. So it looks like a stomp in one way or the other tbh.

And I know that Rep, and that's one reason I keep calling him that.
 
I mean if one is actually capable of beating the other the point of it being a stomp is kinda contradicted.
 
...well, my logic was kinda predicated upon Nero's magic resist not being utter garbage for a Saber... I suppose it is Rank-Uped by her being in the Aestus Domus Aurea, but that's still not incredibly reliable odds. Plus, she probably at least starts with Swordsmanship using her Imperial Privelege, being a Saber and all, so unless he went with something really obvious bad after a delay like Doom, or Curse and only some of the more inconsequential ailments went through, he might sneak through a nasty hax prior to that.

Also, Flirt of all things might be a rather hilariously effective win condition? Nero's Migraine skill blocks mental interferences, i.e. pretty much any mental hax (and possibly soul hax as well, since Heroic Spirits generally only exist physically as souls or something like that IIRC), but the way it seems to be described its less Mind Control and more just... really good Charisma checks. Lol.

I guess Bartz doesn't technically have Self-Resurrections, but his Time Magic can reset the fight to be effectively the same thing? On the one hand, he has to be able to actively pull it off first, which might do him in against Nero since she isn't going to let up if she's taking the fight seriously, but on the other- if he does- then I'm pretty sure it'll reset Saber as well. I.e., she'll have forgotten everything she learned about Bartz's power-set, and might go back to applying Imperial Privilege to Swordsmanship to be more skilled in combat than Bartz since she at that point would've forgotten that his hax, etc. exists.

He'll have effectively gone fresh into the fight knowing that targeting himself with buffs/Reflect and the like, while also spamming summons with Dualcast and possibly also Mimicing/casting his own variant of Aestus Domus Aurea, is a solid way to not be bothered with Magic Resist for a while. He'd also know some of the hax that Nero's more resistant to, maybe.

...idk. It's going to take a lot more work for Bartz to finagle a win against Nero than vice versa, but from the way things look right now he's got close to a 50-50 shot at least. So... Inconclusive, I guess? Not bad at all given Nero is basically the equivalent of a ultra-boss fight for him with her AP/Dura advantage and blanket resistance to all his hax, hahaha. Just goes to show that a massive move pool can turn things around sometimes.
 
ThePerpetual said:
Just goes to show that a massive move pool can turn things around sometimes.
Click to expand...
Well if it wasn't for Libra he would've been screwed due to not knowing what would work against her.
 
@Perp

She rarely ups her Magic Resistance with Imperial Privilege and I don't recall that being the case with Aestus Domus Aurea.

Also, she would only forget the skills she learned from Imperial Privilege. Nero herself is actually surprisingly intelligent and has a good memory that "exhausts the bounds of human intellect".

Yeah, Flirt may or may not work. It's not magic, but it's in character for Nero to flirt with pretty boys (and girls), but I don't think it would distract her form the fight.

Also, Nero's Magic Resistance is rather poor by Saber standards. It isn't going to stop death spells that easily.
 
Reppuzan said:
It's in character for Nero to flirt with pretty boys (and girls).
Click to expand...
So we got a girl who likes to flirt with boys, and a boy who likes to flirt with girls... I wonder how their conversation would go.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

XXKINGXX69
Demigra vs Bartz Klauser
Replies
2
Views
1K
XXKINGXX69
XXKINGXX69
I finally found a character that can have a "fair" match against the Fate franchise
Replies
32
Views
2K
MysticBrawler
Fezzih_007
Nero(the fate one, not the DMC series) vs Sora (1-9-0)
4 5 6
Replies
205
Views
17K
One-Mastor
One-Mastor
BasedNecoScaler69
  • Locked
Nero (fate) vs gilgamesh
Replies
2
Views
940
Maxeez
Maxeez
Fikriskps
Minor Final Fantasy Debunk
Replies
0
Views
1K
Fikriskps
Fikriskps
Back
Top