Baki Hanma vs Daniel Park

[cloudyagami]

Ultra Instinct Daniel enters the tournament against the champion.





Maximum Tournament to New Grappler Baki Key
Ultra Instinct key
Both have prior knowledge
Baki AP: 0.035 Tons
Daniel AP: 0.038 Tons
Speed Equalized

Baki: 2 (@Saintdhqhdy, @cloudyagami)

Daniel:

Inconclusive:

 

[cloudyagami]

Bump

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

Baki

 

[cloudyagami]

Baki

Okay. Vote counted

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Baki

Okay. Vote counted

You need to actually provide reasoning in order for that to count.

Kinda like this.

They're both equal. Instinctive reaction, analytical prediction, can copy each other's abilities repeatedly, Fear manipulation, durablity negation, attack reflection, pain infliction, stat amps versus reactive evolution. Even skill level they're equal to one another, if not leaning to Daniel due to the whole "Copy a technique that took a man decades" thanks to Johan. They would literally just copy each other to death, although notably Daniel can perform things with his body that Johan couldn't easily copy. To the point that Johan copying him actually really damaged his body.

Few smaller advantages UI Daniel has is his higher LS. Tbh there's a feat of Jake where he pushes revolving multiple rooms around but that's not necessary here.

Another one is his reactive evolution is kinda a "keep going" sort of deal that would screw over Baki as the fight goes longer. Baki likely has initial advantage with stat amps, but Daniel's fighting style has always been "don't get hit" and scarily he might copy some of those too. May being the key word. That's not really necessary.

Even stamina they're kinda even but I'm gonna give it to UI Daniel who on his lesser forms got tortured for days with minimal food and much poison

Overall, a very high difficult fight that I'd hand to Daniel.

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

You need to actually provide reasoning in order for that to count.

Kinda like this.

They're both equal. Instinctive reaction, analytical prediction, can copy each other's abilities repeatedly, Fear manipulation, durablity negation, attack reflection, pain infliction, stat amps versus reactive evolution. Even skill level they're equal to one another, if not leaning to Daniel due to the whole "Copy a technique that took a man decades" thanks to Johan. They would literally just copy each other to death, although notably Daniel can perform things with his body that Johan couldn't easily copy. To the point that Johan copying him actually really damaged his body.

Few smaller advantages UI Daniel has is his higher LS. Tbh there's a feat of Jake where he pushes revolving multiple rooms around but that's not necessary here.

Another one is his reactive evolution is kinda a "keep going" sort of deal that would screw over Baki as the fight goes longer. Baki likely has initial advantage with stat amps, but Daniel's fighting style has always been "don't get hit" and scarily he might copy some of those too. May being the key word. That's not really necessary.

Even stamina they're kinda even but I'm gonna give it to UI Daniel who on his lesser forms got tortured for days with minimal food and much poison

Overall, a very high difficult fight that I'd hand to Daniel.

Okay, Baki has conceptual martial arts since aiki is above the physical bounds of martial arts and aiki is also stated to be impossible to any physical lvl of martial arts and has been brought in to reality once, Daniel has never been shown to copy something on that lvl so Baki outskills him. He can precog yujiro, so he can precog someone with precognition. He can negate all physical pain with shaori, and he has dura neg so he outclasses Daniel badly. If you want the scans, ask me and I’ll show them.

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

Also forgot to bring this up, if Daniel does somehow kill him, he can revive him by putting his soul back into his body with his willpower

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Okay, Baki has conceptual martial arts since aiki is above the physical bounds of martial arts and aiki is also stated to be impossible to any physical lvl of martial arts and has been brought in to reality once, Daniel has never been shown to copy something on that lvl so Baki outskills him. He can precog yujiro, so he can precog someone with precognition. He can negate all physical pain with shaori, and he has dura neg so he outclasses Daniel badly. If you want the scans, ask me and I’ll show them.

Path to Mastery itself is a level people attain that is "beyond human limits" and that accounts for people with ludicrous powers and techniques. This is the likes of geniuses. I'm pretty sure Daniel would be just fine. That said that should really be detailed on his profile.

His analytical prediction on his page is a bit different but that's really gonna be irrelevant once Reactive evolution kicks in.

All of them? @ Shaori

You realize that Daniel has dura neg too right... Considering how UI Daniel is completely defensive the nature of that specific "cut the nerves" will not be as effective.

Also forgot to bring this up, if Daniel does somehow kill him, he can revive him by putting his soul back into his body with his willpower

Then Daniel kills him again.

I'm pretty sure that's not an ability he has and is just supernatural willpower. I remember a revision thread removing soul based abilities from Baki.

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

Path to Mastery itself is a level people attain that is "beyond human limits" and that accounts for people with ludicrous powers and techniques. This is the likes of geniuses. I'm pretty sure Daniel would be just fine. That said that should really be detailed on his profile.

His analytical prediction on his page is a bit different but that's really gonna be irrelevant once Reactive evolution kicks in.

All of them? @ Shaori

You realize that Daniel has dura neg too right... Considering how UI Daniel is completely defensive the nature of that specific "cut the nerves" will not be as effective.



Then Daniel kills him again.

I'm pretty sure that's not an ability he has and is just supernatural willpower. I remember a revision thread removing soul based abilities from Baki.

The first part doesn’t prove he can copy conceptual martial arts like aiki but if you think it does, explain why.

you didn’t refute how he can negate Physical pain.

this also applies to Baki.

you then go on to say Daniel kills him but didn’t give a wincon for how while I did give a way for Baki to win, to simply outskill and beat him up.

Obviously a revision that didn’t go through being that it’s still on his profile but go off.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

The first part doesn’t prove he can copy conceptual martial arts like aiki but if you think it does, explain why.

you didn’t refute how he can negate Physical pain.

this also applies to Baki.

you then go on to say Daniel kills him but didn’t give a wincon for how while I did give a way for Baki to win, to simply outskill and beat him up.

Obviously a revision that didn’t go through being that it’s still on his profile but go off.

Sure. Can you prove that your martial arts are conceptual then?

By not getting hit.

Instincts alone would not be enough to overcome Daniel's own reactive evolution.

Sure. Superior LS, durability negation via Aikido. The moment he grabs Baki, he's gonna get hit his joints twisted by Aikido mid grab. Implementing any of the attacks that Baki attempts to use. Also reactive evolution overwhelming Baki eventually in stats.

I see a supernatural willpower category and nothing else about self reviving on the first or second key. Are you sure it's there?

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

Sure. Can you prove that your martial arts are conceptual then?

By not getting hit.

Instincts alone would not be enough to overcome Daniel's own reactive evolution.

Sure. Superior LS, durability negation via Aikido. The moment he grabs Baki, he's gonna get hit his joints twisted by Aikido mid grab. Implementing any of the attacks that Baki attempts to use. Also reactive evolution overwhelming Baki eventually in stats.

I see a supernatural willpower category and nothing else about self reviving on the first or second key. Are you sure it's there?

I literally did in my first reply, like what bro

speed is equalized

nice strawman, I never argued instinct will be a factor in this fight.

what is LS? How is his dura neg better? That’s not even on his page either lmao. First you’ll have to prove that will happen, second, Baki has a better version of the imagination style than kasumi, the same kasumi that uses the imagination style to strengthen his joints and bones to make himself like a whip. So it’s your burden to prove Daniel’s aikido can bypass that. You’ll also have to prove he’ll be able to grab Baki being that he can just put daniel down with aiki , easily overpower him with imagination style, etc. you keep saying reactive evolution, you do realize Baki has that as well right?

Thanks for telling me you just looked at it once. “Willpower Projection (After dying, Baki projected his willpower to bring himself back to life. Baki also replicated this ability again during his fight with his father”. Bro just scrolled down really fast and said he looked at it

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

I literally did in my first reply, like what bro

speed is equalized

nice strawman, I never argued instinct will be a factor in this fight.

what is LS? How is his dura neg better? That’s not even on his page either lmao. First you’ll have to prove that will happen, second, Baki has a better version of the imagination style than kasumi, the same kasumi that uses the imagination style to strengthen his joints and bones to make himself like a whip. So it’s your burden to prove Daniel’s aikido can bypass that. You’ll also have to prove he’ll be able to grab Baki being that he can just put daniel down with aiki , easily overpower him with imagination style, etc. you keep saying reactive evolution, you do realize Baki has that as well right?

Thanks for telling me you just looked at it once. “Willpower Projection (After dying, Baki projected his willpower to bring himself back to life. Baki also replicated this ability again during his fight with his father”. Bro just scrolled down really fast and said he looked at it

I read the Aiki wiki, the VSB section of Aiki on Baki's page, and none of them are anywhere close to what you're describing. I'm asking you to provide scans.

Speed is equalized is fine.

• Speed Amplification techniques are assumed to grant the same percentile of increase to a character's equalized speeds, as they would to their usual speeds.

Then be clear with what you say. "This also applies to Baki" is referring to what. Shaori?

LS

Lifting Strength. You get grabbed you lose with the massive disparancy. Daniel has Class 10, Baki has Unknown. Which should be Class 5 if you scale it from a lower key.

Again easy. Grab Baki or take the hit and grab at the same time, and do this. He doesn't need to reach Baki. If he grabs Baki's hand, he's ******. Easy. And that's disregarding reactive power level. The reason why his durability negation is slightly easier to implement is because he needs one grab. I

This time I checked. No. Nothing. No reactive power level. Nothing on either keys. Do you mean Statistic amplification? Cause that has limits.

Why can't people just write Supernatural Willpower.... Anyway pardon that, watching a movie.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

If you think Baki is missing some abilities then you should bring it up in a revision thread.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Baki stats are getting updated atm. And even then Baki has a class K calc so he absolutely has the advantage

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Baki stats are getting updated atm. And even then Baki has a class K calc so he absolutely has the advantage

Yeah I was surprised a match like this was made while that's happening.

In that case I'll withhold from responding here.

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

I read the Aiki wiki, the VSB section of Aiki on Baki's page, and none of them are anywhere close to what you're describing. I'm asking you to provide scans.

Speed is equalized is fine.

• Speed Amplification techniques are assumed to grant the same percentile of increase to a character's equalized speeds, as they would to their usual speeds.

Then be clear with what you say. "This also applies to Baki" is referring to what. Shaori?



Lifting Strength. You get grabbed you lose with the massive disparancy. Daniel has Class 10, Baki has Unknown. Which should be Class 5 if you scale it from a lower key.

Again easy. Grab Baki or take the hit and grab at the same time, and do this. He doesn't need to reach Baki. If he grabs Baki's hand, he's ******. Easy. And that's disregarding reactive power level. The reason why his durability negation is slightly easier to implement is because he needs one grab. I

This time I checked. No. Nothing. No reactive power level. Nothing on either keys. Do you mean Statistic amplification? Cause that has limits.

Why can't people just write Supernatural Willpower.... Anyway pardon that, watching a movie.

It doesn’t say what aiki does, it just says he has. Are you tryna say just bc the wiki doesn’t list the abilities of the martial arts he has, I can’t use it here? Them knowledging he has is also them knowledging what aiki is.

Baki also has speed amps as I named. Prove Daniel outspeeds him.

yes, baki has shoari and multiple other things that do the same thing.

you didn’t counter my argument, I said prove Daniel can grab Baki, you then go on to tell me how much he can lift, that doesn’t prove he can grab Baki in a fight setting.

Again, for your entire argument to work, you’d have to prove he can grab Baki in a fight setting. You haven’t proven that yet and haven’t refuted the ways I brought up on how Baki will just stop him from doing that in the first

yes, he has Mach punch which give birth to miracles,etc. “That has limits” okay, why would that matter in this fight?

 

[cloudyagami]

I vote Baki

You need to actually provide reasoning in order for that to count.

Kinda like this.

They're both equal. Instinctive reaction, analytical prediction, can copy each other's abilities repeatedly, Fear manipulation, durablity negation, attack reflection, pain infliction, stat amps versus reactive evolution. Even skill level they're equal to one another, if not leaning to Daniel due to the whole "Copy a technique that took a man decades" thanks to Johan. They would literally just copy each other to death, although notably Daniel can perform things with his body that Johan couldn't easily copy. To the point that Johan copying him actually really damaged his body.

Few smaller advantages UI Daniel has is his higher LS. Tbh there's a feat of Jake where he pushes revolving multiple rooms around but that's not necessary here.

Another one is his reactive evolution is kinda a "keep going" sort of deal that would screw over Baki as the fight goes longer. Baki likely has initial advantage with stat amps, but Daniel's fighting style has always been "don't get hit" and scarily he might copy some of those too. May being the key word. That's not really necessary.

Even stamina they're kinda even but I'm gonna give it to UI Daniel who on his lesser forms got tortured for days with minimal food and much poison

Overall, a very high difficult fight that I'd hand to Daniel.

Okay so you vote Daniel?

 

[cloudyagami]

Yeah I was surprised a match like this was made while that's happening.

In that case I'll withhold from responding here.

I wanted to see who had the skill advantages since they both have badass power mimicry and instinctive powers. Its not that surprising the AP is even similar

 

[cloudyagami]

Baki stats are getting updated atm. And even then Baki has a class K calc so he absolutely has the advantage

Okay I didn't know i thought the last update was the current one

 

[Cimafranca133]

You need to actually provide reasoning in order for that to count.

Kinda like this.

They're both equal. Instinctive reaction, analytical prediction, can copy each other's abilities repeatedly, Fear manipulation, durablity negation, attack reflection, pain infliction, stat amps versus reactive evolution. Even skill level they're equal to one another, if not leaning to Daniel due to the whole "Copy a technique that took a man decades" thanks to Johan. They would literally just copy each other to death, although notably Daniel can perform things with his body that Johan couldn't easily copy. To the point that Johan copying him actually really damaged his body.

Few smaller advantages UI Daniel has is his higher LS. Tbh there's a feat of Jake where he pushes revolving multiple rooms around but that's not necessary here.

Another one is his reactive evolution is kinda a "keep going" sort of deal that would screw over Baki as the fight goes longer. Baki likely has initial advantage with stat amps, but Daniel's fighting style has always been "don't get hit" and scarily he might copy some of those too. May being the key word. That's not really necessary.

Even stamina they're kinda even but I'm gonna give it to UI Daniel who on his lesser forms got tortured for days with minimal food and much poison

Overall, a very high difficult fight that I'd hand to Daniel.

I vote for Daniel FRA due to COB's reasons

 

[Vasco]

Voting Daniel for reasons above.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

I wanted to see who had the skill advantages since they both have badass power mimicry and instinctive powers. Its not that surprising the AP is even similar

Fai nuff. Honestly this thread making me realize how a version of Baki and him are even is quite nice lol

I vote Baki

Okay so you vote Daniel?

Yup voting Daniel.

I'll wait for any revisions in further discussions with Saint. Also theres some minor stuff to revise in PTJ that's currently pending

 

[Vasco]

I vote Baki

Okay so you vote Daniel?

OP can't vote

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Baki stats are getting updated atm. And even then Baki has a class K calc so he absolutely has the advantage

^

 

[Cimafranca133]

OP can't vote

They can, they just need a valid reason.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

^

Would the update change the stats to the point that this match is invalid or nah?

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Yeah

 

[DivineAura44]

Gaolang solos.

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Muhammad Ali jr solos

 

[cloudyagami]

Fai nuff. Honestly this thread making me realize how a version of Baki and him are even is quite nice lol


Yup voting Daniel.

I'll wait for any revisions in further discussions with Saint. Also theres some minor stuff to revise in PTJ that's currently pending

Okay so i'll postpone the match for now.

 

[cloudyagami]

Yeah

Okay this thread should be closed since its a stomp match via LS