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Azrael (Blazblue) Downgrade?

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ThePerpetual

VS Battles
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Currently, Azrael is Moon to Planet level: his justification is as follows.

"Jin Kisaragi stated that he's never seen a punch like Azrael's pack so much weight behind it. Both Ragna and Kokonoe state that his strength is monstrous"

There's a few problems here. For starters, Jin had never seen one of the Moon to Planet level characters in the series throw a punch like that, up to that point, so it being better than anything he had seen up to that point doesn't mean much. Kokonoe saying his strength is monstrous doesn't necessarily equate to "greater than me", either, anyone's power could be "monstrous" if it was potentially able to cause massive collateral damage. She could full well consider her own power "monstrous", too.

The main issue, though, is quite simply a logistic one. Azrael is currently listed as being in the same general weight class as 100% Hakumen, Hades Izanami, Terumi with the Susano'o Unit, etc. However, the main conflict in which he is involved in the story mode of the third game, ChronoPhantasma, in which he battles Ragna and Kagura Mutsuki. The entire point of that fight was that Ragna was purposefully avoiding tapping into the Black Beast's power and fighting Azrael in base form alone: this is around the same time as Ragna's "What is my own power?" discussion with Celica: basically, him finally learning to stand on his own. Unless you mean to tell me that Base!Ragna is stronger than both himself when amped with the Azure Grimoire and all of the above, this doesn't add up: Kagura being that strong as well, doubly so.

As it stands, Base!Azrael is in the same realm, generally, as 20% Hakumen's "An unknown amount above the Gigant: Take-Mikazuchi's 11.625 Teraton" value. An unrestricted Azrael: if we're to take his "He only used 1/8th his real power" thing literally: would be far above 93.0 Teratons of TNT. This translates to Country level+, likely Large Country level.

TL,DR: If Azrael was as strong as the overarching big bad of the entire series when he fought Base Ragna and Kagura, they wouldn't have at least held their own. They would've become red paste.
 
Agreed. I believe I brought this up on his discussion page
 
I'm pretty sure he was Tier 6 before. Then somebody slipped under and changed him up to a few or so tiers.

Anyways, I agree with downgrading him to Base Ragna's power.
 
Umm, Im just gonna point this out but the fact CP Base Ragna is stronger than CT Blazblue Ragna is actually possible. You see in CT Ragna base was getting owned by 20% Hakumen and had to activate Blazblue to keep up with 20% Hakumen and beat him, barely. Now, lets look at CP. Ragna fights with Tager who he encountered in CT and he was easily able to beat him and Tager acknowledges that Ragna's fighting capabilities is completely diffrent than before so his acknowledging that Ragna has improved a lot since CT. He also then easily beats Tsubaki who wielded a nox which is stated repeatedly to be deadly to him before facing Hakumen again. This time Ragna was able to fight Hakumen on equal terms without Blazblue. Also he and Hakumen were not breathing hard at while they were fighting before they were interupted. For Hakumen's case it is due to Susanoo granting infinite stamina but for Ragna it might hint that Ragna actually got stronger than 20%Hakumen at base. Sure he was probably using soul eater but still...
 
I think it is possible to actuall consider Azrael to be somewhere around Hakumen's level. Ragna stated that Susanoo is stronger than Azrael so his weaker than 100% Hakumen but should be able to still put up a good fight in my opinion.
 
Even Jin with his body at its limit could still trade blows with Susanoo. And its revealed that the only reason Kagura won was because Azrael did not know martial arts and was acknowledged to be physicly stronger than him but due to his fighting style resembling, as Kagura puts it, 'A kid throwing a tantrum' Kagura was able to read his moves easily that gave him the edge. So physicly, in my opinion, Azrael is close enough to 100% Hakumen to make it the fight close but if you take everything else into accout then Hakumen would win by a land slide.
 
Just to point out the obvious hole in Shadowedge27 post two above mine, Ragna only traded a couple of blows with Azrael using his Blazblue power while Azrael had just released the first seal on his power. He never traded blows with a more powerful Azrael like Kagura did, who couldn't even move for a while after taking one hit from Azrael after he released half his strength (lvl 4).

Azrael's response to Kagura reading his moves was to move faster then you can react. Once he unleashed Lvl 4, he did just that, smashing Kagura back with one hit that, like I stated above, incapacitated him 'for a while' after Jin froze Azrael with help from the Power of Order.
 
On a somewhat similar-ish note, I noticed Azrael has Immunity to Time Manipulation on his profile. There's a difference between Resistence and Immunity, so with that being said, wouldn't Azrael be immune to Hakumen's Time Killer?
 
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