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Asura's Wrath: Debunking "Large Star size" Karma Fortress and "Galaxy size" Golden Chakravartin

Well, if the handbook clearly states Chakravartin and Asura to be multi-galaxy level, and Chakravartin created a universe over time, then there are serious inconsistencies with what is displayed within the game, and I think that this should be noted within the profiles.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, if the handbook clearly states Chakravartin and Asura to be multi-galaxy level, and Chakravartin created a universe over time, then there are serious inconsistencies with what is displayed within the game, and I think that this should be noted within the profiles.
Click to expand...
We can't believe everything what other sources says, otherwise we should have to accept too Solar system level Cell, Universe level Buu, Light Speed Haku, Amaterasu being hotter than the Sun, etc.
 
Anyway, I would like to ask for scans where is stated that Chakravartin is multi-galaxy level from the handbook.

Is not that I don't believe in you guys, but I want to see that for myself to be 100% sure.
 
There was a thread earlier in which it was stated, and I think evidence was presented, after which I and Seiryu accepted that we should upgrade the profiles, but I don't remember where it was. Maybe Newraptor remembers?
 
As for handbooks, I think that they are legitimate, as long as they contain official statements from the ones in charge of the franchise. The problems appear when there are contradictions.
 
I really feel like we're being too scrutinizing here. A game has limitations on what it can handle in terms of framerate and hardware, and Asura's Wrath was released on last-gen consoles that don't have as much framerate and hardware capabilities as current-gen consoles; then there's story, gamaplay restrictions, etc. With all of this, I'd say the handbook might be a more reliable source than the game as it's free of any limitations on portrayal the game itself may impose.
 
That is a good point.

Also, I think that this was the thread in question: [1]
 
I saw recently the entire thread and no evidence was presented about multi-galaxy level Chakravartin, as no one posted scans about the handbook where is supposed Chakravartin being multi-galaxy level.

It's not only me, a lot of people would think the same, Chakravatin being "galaxy size" is questionable, as I showed proof why is questionable his size, and in fact, being multi-galaxy level is questionable too, when the best feat that was showed in the game was large star busting.

And sorry if I bring others verses here, but if the handbook is a more reliable source than the game itself as you said Unclechairman, then we have to do the same with Dragon Ball about the databooks, accepting Solar System level Cell and Universe level Buu.
 
I don't think that those databooks were written by Akira Toriyama though. Also, what about Chakravartin somehow creating a universe?
 
I guess you could be right on the A'W handbook then, Rocks.

If we accept that, then we have to accept Cell as being Solar System level and Buu being Universe level, and considering that Bills is alot stronger than Buu in any of his forms, we would have to scale him as well as Vegito, Frieza, Whis, Goku, and Vegeta then.

Heck in fact, that may even make DBGT even more stronger too, i think
 
Not sure, maybe not, but Amaterasu being hotter than sun was written by Kishimoto in a databook iirc, and you know how that was contradicted later in the series, right?

My point is, if we accept things about a game, we have to accept the same things about a series, because Dragon Ball fans will think we are being unfair with Dragon Ball, especially when DBZ fans are struggling a lot for us to accept Solar System level Cell, I recognize that of the DBZ fans.

Well, I just showed proofs why I think Chakravartin isn't galaxy size, as well the Karma Fortress isn't large star size, as guys wanted me to show evidence why I was thinking that.
 
Okay. My only hangup is the issue of Chakravartin supposedly creating a universe. It doesn't seem to logically fit with him being only solar system level.
 
@Rocks75:The Amaterasu part? Read a comment thread about it on Youtube and they expalined that if the fire techinique was as hot as the sun, Earth would be burning to a crisp and the Naruto would have ended right there.

Yeah i remember i read a page somehere that explains why Cell ins't a Solar System destroyer is because it takes alot of power and energy to blow up our sun, and how even if Cell had blown up the sun and cause to go supernova it would have likely to have not be able to cover our whole solar system.
 
Its 2 sides of the coin IMO.

Planet sizes in media will not always be accurate and asura is no exception.

I feel like the artbook gives what the Artists intended the scene to look like. but since it was on a consle it didn't just have the power to do so.
 
Imagine if they remade Asura's Wrath for the current gen's. That would be awesome, yo.
 
I don't think Chakravartin was mentioned as being outright galaxy-sized. Rather, he was portrayed as the center of the galaxy, seemingly taking the place of the supermassive black hole whose gravitational force binds galaxies together. It would actually make him the size of multiple solar systems, albeit with a lot more gravitational force.

I don't think Dragon Ball fans will push for Universe Level Buu as much as they have pushed for Solar System Level Cell. The reason being that the context between the two was different. Majin Buu was simply described as "a monster with the power to destroy the universe", which can mean any number of possible ways he could do so, while Cell was described as having gathered enough power to destroy the solar system while he was charging up one massive attack. Furthermore, characters being described as universal threats seems to happen a lot in Dragon Ball, with King Kai claiming Frieza as one, Majin Buu, Piccolo on Broly, etc, and in this context, claims of destroying the solar system seem to stand out, with only two characters having claimed such a thing in the series; Cell, and Whis about Beerus.

I know virtually nothing about Naruto, so I can't make any points on that one.
 
Speaking of Chakravartin not being outright Galaxy sized but rather being the center of the of our galaxy, that makes alot more sense, really. In Chakra's page, it even says that his true form is the center of the Milky Way Galaxy. The real question being asked is does that make him Solar System/Multi-Solar System+ or just Galaxy level at the very most?
 
So, have we reached a consensus here? Are Asura and Chakravartin Galaxy busters, or just solar system to multi-solar system busters?
 
I think Chakravartin sitting on the Milk Way Galaxy is a mistranslation, he was just in the center of the Milk Way Galaxy, otherwise Chakravartin would even reach Gaea (the Earth in Asura's Wrath) and Asura wouldn't need travel much like he did.

Chakravartin is at least larger than the Solar System in size what the AW's wiki said.

And I think I would vote on the latter too.
 
I am uncertain. It is the whole "Chakravarting created the universe" issue. That would be impossible unless he was multi-galaxy level. That said, it isn't like I have any bias either way for the franchise.
 
Oh.....crap then. So do we leave Chakravartin and Asura at their strongest as Galaxy/Multi Galaxy+ for right now then?
 
Antvasima said:
I am uncertain. It is the whole "Chakravarting created the universe" issue. That would be impossible unless he was multi-galaxy level. That said, it isn't like I have any bias either way for the franchise.
Click to expand...
I think Chakravartin can create an universe due to reality warping abilities, at least in his golden form.
 
"I think Charkravartin can create a universe due to reality warping abilities, at least in his golden form." That would make sense too, though i want to know Antvasima truly thinks on this, Rocks.
 
Looking at it, it isn't TOO far off that he created a universe within a reasonable amount of time in his Golden form. He was spittin out stars and planets like an MC. And even if it did take a long ass time, immortals percieve time differently. A long time to us could be reasonably quick to them.
 
Thanks for pointing that out, Sheoth. I forgot that Gods and beings like them perceive time differently compared to us mortal beings.
 
Well, we could make a parenthesis for Chakravartin having at least level 3-B reality warping, but only level 4-A combat power.
 
However, given that there are approximately 170 billion galaxies in the universe, and maybe 10^23 stars, I definitely do not buy Chakravartin creating the solar systems one by one or even a dozen at a time.
 
Yes, but we couldn't have expected them to consider all these factors when making the actual game. And like I said, it wouldn't be too illogical for the time consuming length of creation to only be considered a short amount of time to someone like Chakravartin..

Let me use the Bible as an example [Please bear with me]

When it says something like: "On the first day, God created the heavens and the earth," what exactly do we consider one day to actually mean? For all we know, a single day to a greater being like God could be as long as a billion years to mortal men. In Chakravartins case, it would most likely work in that same way, or a similar way.
 
If he created 1 star at a time at a rate of one per second, that would take him 10^23 seconds, or 3.1689×10^15 years. The estimated age of our universe is just 1.3798×10^10 years. Meaning: If he did nothing else whatsoever, it would have taken him 2.2966×10^5 times (or 229.66 million times) as long as our universe has existed.
 
But it was clearly shown that it was dozens of stars and planets that he was shooting out at a time. And even so, that Universe could still be, in theory, as large as ours in terms of area (if that measure would apply to Universes...) but not have the exact same amount of stars and galaxies that ours has. Even then, I still see if you are skeptical, considering that there is a lot of speculation involved in this. But based off the gameplay, I don't see how they are multi-galaxy when nothing was displayed near that level. Unless you want to add the 3-B reality warping similar to how Janemba has it.
 
Anyway, where does it come from the "Chakravartin created an universe" thing?

I saw some comments in some pages and looks like is questionable.

Also, I rewatched the episodes of Asura's Wrath where Chakravartin appears, and only a part is talked about creation, where Asura said to him "The world is not yours to control", then Chakravartin replied "on the contrary, I created it", but that not implies that he created the universe I guess.
 
By the way, as I rewatched the episode 19 of Asura's Wrath, I have to mention that in a part of that episode, the Karma Fortress' head crashed into the Earth, which if the Karma Fortress' head would have the size that has in the pic of the Official Works, it would have destroyed the Earth, because the Karma Fortress' head alone was a lot bigger than the Earth in the pic of official works, but as it don't have that size, then the Earth wasn't destroyed. Definitely I can't accept "Large Star size" Karma Fortress after I watched that.
 
Well, I only heard about Chakravartin creating the universe from other users here. If there is no valid source for this, I will obviously change my mind about this issue.
 
Well, I suppose the Karma Fortress being large star size was already debunked with the last proof that I mentioned, so I will downgrade some pages of AW, like Deus, Gohma Vlitra and Yasha, while Chakravartin and Asura will stand in the same tier for now, the debate about Chakravartin and Asura power is still open, while the Karma Fortress debate is closed.
 
Well, if Chakravartin creating the universe is inaccurate, then I have no objections about you changing Asura and Chakravartin as well.
 
Well, I will bump this to say that I changed my mind. I'm going to back down about this discussion, just I wanted to give my proofs why I have doubts about star size Karma Fortress and Chakravartin's size, but not anymore.

So, in others words, I will put the Karma Fortress and anyone being him at Star level+.

Multi-Solar System level+ for Asura and Chakravartin.

anyone agree with this? or anyone want to give an opinion about this?
 
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