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Asriel vs Kars

Kars' low 2-C is baseline and I believe environmental damage, but I'm pretty sure asriel can't bypass his countless souls and type 8.

If kara can understand his paralysis and break it, I think of his stands can win, asriel has no resistance to time stop for example
 
We his understanding and passive and super easy to activate and from other threads I think he uses it first then uses the best stand to counter? Now sure, I mostly remember the bloodlusted ones.
 
Anyways, what does Kars lead with?
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Depends on when in the novel we're using, who he's fighting and so on.
End of novel, assuming he actually wants to kill, probably time stop and clones, all equipped with time stop too. 🤷‍♂️
 
Anyways, what does Kars lead with and what keeps Asriel from SAVING and LOADING?
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Probably Kars picking up on it and doing the same, even without understanding, he has BTD, which is a time rewind, which he can use on himself to skip the need for a host, and by doing that, he also keeps all his memories.
And that's without getting into the possibility of Kars gaining SAVE and LOADING itself too.

Save and Load isn't actually that good an advantage, the fact he even has it will probably come back and bite him if Kars learns it. Atop of having an alternate method as well. A method that also instant nukes everyone in the vicinity with at least a small country sized AOE if used offensively.
 
Chariot190 said:
Probably Kars picking up on it and doing the same, even without understanding, he has BTD, which is a time rewind, which he can use on himself to skip the need for a host, and by doing that, he also keeps all his memories.
And that's without getting into the possibility of Kars gaining SAVE and LOADING itself too.

Save and Load isn't actually that good an advantage, the fact he even has it will probably come back and bite him if Kars learns it. Atop of having an alternate method as well. A method that also instant nukes everyone in the vicinity with at least a small country sized AOE if used offensively.
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Asriel can use the TRUE RESET which negs acausality type 1 and make a solid incon.
 
Asriel can use the TRUE RESET which negs acausality type 1 and make a solid incon.
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Acausality Type 1 was never even something I considered when I said that, I forgot Kars had it, but the fact Kars does have it just makes normal resets all the more useless.

Everything I said still Stands though, Kars has his own way to rewind or "reset" even without copying, and he can very well copy an ability such as this as well, essentially, Asriel having a variant that would even **** himself over is bad news for him, not Kars.

And mind you, Kars managed to adapt to BTD's main effects, after seemingly getting effected by them, True Reset would only work once and never again, even if Kars himself doesn't inherently remember the events that transpired initially, he'd still gain an innate resistance or mimicry of it as he's appeared to have done before.

So point stands, Kars has his own reset to start with, with added effects like total destruction down to even the soul being fated to happen automatically (meaning, low-godly may not actually help him here, and his soul res ain't doing shit as this works on Stands and Stand Users' souls, who can, of course, take attacks onto their very spirit) which has like a country wide AOE at minimum (AOE as in, targets in range can be dusted when used), he can copy Asriel's variants of reset and if Kars opts to do, like literally anything else besides out AP him, like Whitesnake, he can easily incap and prevent Asriel from resetting via setting an input DISC command or simply removing his mind or soul in the form of a DISC and destroying it completely (Again, works on Stands, etc), though I doubt Kars would do that unless forced, so he'd likely just opt for incap and settle this "peacefully", probably make it so Asriel can't use certain powers like reset by sealing them or removing his memories of being able to use them in the first place by rewriting his mind and forging his memories to a way he sees beneficial, and just make it so Asriel can't attempt to harm Kars, ending this in the least bloodshed as possible.

In character, assuming, end of novel, Kars would almost certainly lead with time stop, which Asriel doesn't resist, and from there he can do whatever he wants, in which he has a handful of ways to straight up incap and pacify Asriel, even factoring in Resets and even the True Reset.

Asriel's completely unironic best chance at winning, is to simply try and AP Kars and his cheat cards like D4C (because if D4C gets away and escapes, Asriel is never winning, Kars can just send in time stop equipped duplicates from the safety of another dimension and he's definitely savvy enough to do shit like that) as soon as the match starts before Kars stops time and does whatever the **** he wants. Asriel could unironically net out a pretty easy win if he just tries and unga bunga out of the gate assuming he gets it off before time stop, if he does anything else though, like use his hax, show off, or whatever, well, Kars actually has some unconventional ways around all his notable shit to the point it'd be digging his own grave if he uses them 🤷‍♂️
 
Chariot190 said:
Acausality Type 1 was never even something I considered when I said that, I forgot Kars had it, but the fact Kars does have it just makes normal resets all the more useless.

Everything I said still Stands though, Kars has his own way to rewind or "reset" even without copying, and he can very well copy an ability such as this as well, essentially, Asriel having a variant that would even **** himself over is bad news for him, not Kars.

And mind you, Kars managed to adapt to BTD's main effects, after seemingly getting effected by them, True Reset would only work once and never again, even if Kars himself doesn't inherently remember the events that transpired initially, he'd still gain an innate resistance or mimicry of it as he's appeared to have done before.

So point stands, Kars has his own reset to start with, with added effects like total destruction down to even the soul being fated to happen automatically (meaning, low-godly may not actually help him here, and his soul res ain't doing shit as this works on Stands and Stand Users' souls, who can, of course, take attacks onto their very spirit) which has like a country wide AOE at minimum (AOE as in, targets in range can be dusted when used), he can copy Asriel's variants of reset and if Kars opts to do, like literally anything else besides out AP him, like Whitesnake, he can easily incap and prevent Asriel from resetting via setting an input DISC command or simply removing his mind or soul in the form of a DISC and destroying it completely (Again, works on Stands, etc), though I doubt Kars would do that unless forced, so he'd likely just opt for incap and settle this "peacefully", probably make it so Asriel can't use certain powers like reset by sealing them or removing his memories of being able to use them in the first place by rewriting his mind and forging his memories to a way he sees beneficial, and just make it so Asriel can't attempt to harm Kars, ending this in the least bloodshed as possible.

In character, assuming, end of novel, Kars would almost certainly lead with time stop, which Asriel doesn't resist, and from there he can do whatever he wants, in which he has a handful of ways to straight up incap and pacify Asriel, even factoring in Resets and even the True Reset.

Asriel's completely unironic best chance at winning, is to simply try and AP Kars and his cheat cards like D4C (because if D4C gets away and escapes, Asriel is never winning, Kars can just send in time stop equipped duplicates from the safety of another dimension and he's definitely savvy enough to do shit like that) as soon as the match starts before Kars stops time and does whatever the **** he wants. Asriel could unironically net out a pretty easy win if he just tries and unga bunga out of the gate assuming he gets it off before time stop, if he does anything else though, like use his hax, show off, or whatever, well, Kars actually has some unconventional ways around all his notable shit to the point it'd be digging his own grave if he uses them 🤷‍♂️
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Kars (Base) resist fate manipulation not time manipulation as shown in his profile.

Resistance to: Radiation Manipulation, Extreme Cold, Explosion Manipulation, Fate Manipulation (Killer Queen's primary and third bomb did not affect Kars whatsoever, no matter the intensity of the explosion. Kars's fated outcome also never occurred),

Kars does have a lot of opportunities to curbstomp the fluffyboy with his haxes but Asriel would most likely use true reset which negs Kars conventional acausality type 1 when he realizes Kars can copy the the normal load and reset.

But this depends on which key are we using for this Kar of course. Anything from The World Ultimate onwards would get Asriel in an "I'm F***ed" situation. Also known as a stomp.
 
Kars (Base) resist fate manipulation not time manipulation as shown in his profile.
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We're not using Base Kars dude, we're using MIHUR Kars, who by that point in the novel has a **** ton of resistances, including of some time variety, and you seem to misunderstand, I'm saying even if Kars gets reset, the progress towards adapting stays, as that literally happened with BTD, even if Kars no longer remembers it.

Resistance to: Radiation Manipulation, Extreme Cold, Explosion Manipulation, Fate Manipulation (Killer Queen's primary and third bomb did not affect Kars whatsoever, no matter the intensity of the explosion. Kars's fated outcome also never occurred),
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Yeah, that's what he has by himself without any aid pre-adaption at that point in time, though he's missing a few from his canon version due to a few recent CRT's, nothing major though.
Kars does have a lot of opportunities to curbstomp the fluffyboy with his haxes but Asriel would most likely use true reset which negs Kars conventional acausality type 1 when he realizes Kars can copy the the normal load and reset.
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Which does absolutely nothing long term because Kars would still adapt to it even if he loses his memory of the event in question as shown with BTD. Furthermore, you're acting like Asriel would ever get the chance to do that. in no situation is a true reset being used here, because by the time Asriel realizes that's worth using, he'd have been incaped to hell and back and Kars would already be aware of it due to stopping time and reading his memories and abilities.
Also, when Kars copies an ability, it tends to be greater than the original, it's the ability at its highest caliber, if Kars copies the ability to save and load and reset, he's gaining an "Ultimate" variant of it, and if The World Ultimate is anything to go on, his versions are beyond the original to the point where if the person he copied has an innate resistance to the ability in question, it becomes moot (For example. Dio can stop time, and he can see, think and the like in time stop, and even move in it if he uses his own, but when Kars copied his ability and evolved it, when Kars stopped time, Dio couldn't see, think, or anything of the sort, he wasn't even aware it happened, almost as if he was a normal person facing his time stop). But let's say that Asriel would still have his res to Resets, Kars would still gain an evolved variant at its maximum potential beyond what's standard for it. And this is definitely within the realm of abilities he can copy given he has shit like MIHUR and D4CU.

But this depends on which key are we using for this Kar of course. Anything from The World Ultimate onwards would get Asriel in an "I'm F***ed" situation. Also known as a stomp.
Click to expand...

Kars doesn't actually have "keys" in the normal sense, his Stands and what they grant him are in keys, but that's for the sake of organization and ease of reading due to having so many, but Kars has them all simultaneously, MIHUR Kars has every single Stand at once. (As MIHUR is end of novel for the most part).
The only way Kars wouldn't have certain Stands if a version of him at a certain point in the novel was used where he hadn't manifested said ability yet, for example, early novel he has no Stands and is lacking a few abilities, he soon gains Das Boot and then Whitesnake almost immediately after (And Dune, though he doesn't use it till later, a bit before The World), stuff happens, he eventually copies The World, then immediately after D4C, C-Moon and MIHUR and then steals Killer Queen, in that order, but something like that would need to be specified by OP, who already specified MIHUR.
tldr, Kars doesn't have keys in which does or doesn't have certain abilities, his profile is for him at the end of the novel where he has everything and the "keys" he does have are just to separate the Stands from himself so it doesn't look like "Country level+ (Can harm Dio Brando with his punches), Country level+ with Das Boot Ultimate (Its missiles could easily destroy Kars' and Dio's body), Varies with Dune Ultimate (Its power depends on the sand amount in Kars' range), at least Large Building level with The World Ultimate (Comparable to if not above the original The World), Building level+ with Killer Queen and Bites the Dust (Is the same Stand from the J-Universe), at least Building level+ with D4C Ultimate (Should be comparable to if not superior to the original Stand from the J-Universe), Country level+ with Whitesnake Ultimate (Damaged Dio), Unknown with C-Moon Ultimate (Comparable to if not above the original C-Moon), Universe level+ with Made in Heaven Ultimate Requiem (MIHUR makes time accelerate to infinity, which then follows to the end and rebirth of the universe).
In a single key (same goes for speed, durability, LS, and abilities and resistances, it'd look messy as ****).


So as I said above, Asriel needs to whip out pure raw AP and try to instantly kill both Kars (And D4C before it dimension hops), before Kars himself stops time or does something that'd hax Asriel (if not both, at the same time) reset or not (Because Kars has ways to make it so he can't reset or a way to get around it entirely).
AP or bust basically, save and loading is negligible, especially if used any times above once.
 
Asriel seemingly has passive paralysis inducement in his final form. Would that help him any?
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It'd work, but only for a moment, an ability such as that is something Kars is easily capable of adapting to (to the point, idk if it'd even work longer than a moment), and then Kars just copies it and now has the same ability but better he can use against Asriel.
To further that, all that would do is basically guarantee Kars would stop time (as time stop is thought based for Kars, being paralyzed wouldn't prevent it), and from there that's extremely bad news as Kars now has over an hour to do whatever he wants in stopped time without any risk or danger.
 
Anyway, If you want my honest opinion, Asriel stomps hard, but only up to when Kars gains time stop, which he has in this match, in which case Kars does whatever he wants and makes use of his numerous abilities that can easily incap Asriel, reset or not.
Asriel, even with his ridiculous stat advantage and built in haxes as well, has absolutely no counter to time stop, which Kars can use with just a thought and in response to the vast majority of what Asriel has (and would do too in character).
And when Kars does that, it's game over, he has several abilities, that can incap Asriel, get around SAVE/LOAD/Resets (of all types), and with zero issue at that (Plus Kars has over an a hour to adapt and copy shit now, read memories, learn everything about his foe, etc) and it doesn't help that Asriel is in an uphill battle as his abilities would be steadily copied to and even adapted to by Kars for the most part, assuming it even goes that long.

Without time stop, EoN Kars and Asriel would probably just incon forever (unless D4C somehow manages to get away or Asriell kills them both instantly, though the former would likely be difficult to do but if it happens, Kars wins, though if Asriel leads and pulls off the former, he wins, so I guess it would be more like an unquantifiable endless shitfest with a slight chance that either can pull a win off a specific scenario), but when you toss in a instant thought based move that Kars can use literally whenever which would lead into being able to do whatever he wants against a helpless foe who can't do anything about it, well it becomes a bit unfair even with all of Asriel's solid edges over Kars.
 
Kars survived from 36 Universes Reset, and btw, the 36 reset in the novel kills everything so. Asriel in character does the TRUE RESET overtime.
 
Chariot190 said:
And when Kars does that, it's game over, he has several abilities, that can incap Asriel, get around SAVE/LOAD/Resets (of all types), and with zero issue at that (Plus Kars has over an a hour to adapt and copy shit now, read memories, learn everything about his foe, etc) and it doesn't help that Asriel is in an uphill battle as his abilities would be steadily copied to and even adapted to by Kars for the most part, assuming it even goes that long.

Without time stop, EoN Kars and Asriel would probably just incon forever (unless D4C somehow manages to get away or Asriell kills them both instantly, though the former would likely be difficult to do but if it happens, Kars wins, though if Asriel leads and pulls off the former, he wins, so I guess it would be more like an unquantifiable endless shitfest with a slight chance that either can pull a win off a specific scenario), but when you toss in a instant thought based move that Kars can use literally whenever which would lead into being able to do whatever he wants against a helpless foe who can't do anything about it, well it becomes a bit unfair even with all of Asriel's solid edges over Kars.
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Kars can survive the universal resets in the novel, which are basically True Resets. Also, even if he didn't remeber it, he would still develop a resistance to the attack, so it would only work once.

And even if Kars didn't use The World, the fact that BtD exists makes it all the more easier. Since Asriel and Kars would remember it, Asriel could become desperate and since BtD has it's own timeline, Asriel could not Reset it, resulting in him giving up or simply dying.
 
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