Asriel Dreemurr VS Bill Cipher

[Otakuzoid]

Two...VERY POWERFUL villains do battle.

Can end in Death, KO or BFR. Fight takes place above the mountain from Undertale (forgot it's name).



Current Vote:
Asriel: 5

Bill: 1

(Plz tell me if I mis-counted)

 

[Jaften]

In terms of "highest-tier confirmed feat" (AKA, not assumed/implied/powerscaled/etc)... wouldn't Flowey/Asriel's multiple canonical instances of creating/destroying multiple "SAVE files" (timelines/universes)—and in the case of the "God of Hyperdeath", potentially destroying nearly all of the Undertale multiverse with his "Hyper Goner" attack—be considered superior to anything Bill Cipher has actually done in Gravity Falls?

I know that Bill's entrance into the "physical universe" supposedly distorted/destroyed most of its natural laws (although, to be honest, it looked to me like the majority of them were still working just fine, seeing as how matter didn't spontaneously degenerate), that Time Baby stated Bill's antics and the rip from his realm "could destroy the fabric of existence itself," and that Bill Cipher physically destroyed the Time Baby and Time Police, but... has Bill Cipher actually destroyed a single complete universe? Or can all Bill's feats we know of be summed up as garden-variety insane trickster god reality warping shenanigans, doomsday predictions made by a featless being, and destruction feats against said featless being whose durability is unknown and incalculable?

...For that matter, why is Time Baby's attack potency and durability marked as "at least Universe level+, likely Multiverse level+" when there are to my knowledge no feats nor strong statements supporting that conclusion? Yeah, I know he apparently "governs the space-time continuums of Gravity Falls Multiverse," but that doesn't automatically mean he has attack and defense equivalent to an entire universe, much less an infinite number of them. Hell, isn't Time Baby's supposed to be the last of his kind? Seems to me like Time Giants can't exactly be all powerful, seeing as how they're apparently going extinct for some reaso. I dunno, this sort of half-assed powerscaling just comes off as really careless and sloppy, if you ask me.

Anyways, I'm not claiming that Asriel wins, I'm just trying to establish which of them has the best confirmed feats. Because to me at least, it looks as though Asriel has actual univese-destroying feats confirming that they are at least Tier 2-C status, while to the best of my knowledge Bill could only be considered potentially Tier 2-C status because of some reality-warping shenanigans, the Time Baby's in-universe statements, and some rather dodgy powerscaling nonsense—am I wrong to think that's not exactly a strong comparison?

 

[Otakuzoid]

Hmm, maybe you should make a downgrade thread in that case, see what the others think of it.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

How exactly is Hyper Goner a multiversal attack? i'm not saying that Asriel isn't multiversal by himself. I'm just asking why specially Hyper Goner would be that dangerous when even Asriel himself before use it says something among the lines of: "It's time to purge THIS timeline once and for all!"

This. In sigular.

 

[Jaften]

How exactly is Hyper Goner a multiversal attack? i'm not saying that Asriel isn't multiversal by himself. I'm just asking why specially Hyper Goner would be that dangerous when even Asriel himself before use it says something among the lines of: "It's time to purge THIS timeline once and for all!"
This. In sigular.

That's why I said "potentially". It's at least a universal purge, but God Flowey did as much without the fuss and God Flowey is far less powerful. And ultimately, what Asriel was attempting to achieve was a TRUE RESET, which would seem to actually be a multiversal-level RESET, so there is some reasoning behind "Hyper Goner" being a near multiverse-level purge (it would have been complete had Frisk been consumed).

 

[Gnomishness]

How exactly is Hyper Goner a multiversal attack? i'm not saying that Asriel isn't multiversal by himself. I'm just asking why specially Hyper Goner would be that dangerous when even Asriel himself before use it says something among the lines of: "It's time to purge THIS timeline once and for all!"

This. In sigular.

I mean, a timeline is more than just a universe, isn't it?

Hypothetically, destroying a Timeline is destroying all points of time within that universe; basically a near infinite number of universes.

Correct me if I'm wrong...

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

How exactly is Hyper Goner a multiversal attack? i'm not saying that Asriel isn't multiversal by himself. I'm just asking why specially Hyper Goner would be that dangerous when even Asriel himself before use it says something among the lines of: "It's time to purge THIS timeline once and for all!"
This. In sigular.

That's why I said "potentially". It's at least a universal purge, but God Flowey did as much without the fuss and God Flowey is far less powerful. And ultimately, what Asriel was attempting to achieve was a TRUE RESET, which would seem to actually be a multiversal-level RESET, so there is some reasoning behind "Hyper Goner" being a near multiverse-level purge (it would have been complete had Frisk been consumed).

But then again. A True Reset isn't a multiversal reset. a True reset is simply a reset where everything is returned to zero in one timeline. Hyper Goner was especially used to purge one single timeline. Asriel himself said so.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

How exactly is Hyper Goner a multiversal attack? i'm not saying that Asriel isn't multiversal by himself. I'm just asking why specially Hyper Goner would be that dangerous when even Asriel himself before use it says something among the lines of: "It's time to purge THIS timeline once and for all!"

This. In sigular.

I mean, a timeline is more than just a universe, isn't it?
Hypothetically, destroying a Timeline is destroying all points of time within that universe; basically a near infinite number of universes.

Correct me if I'm wrong...

I always though the countrary. A timeline could even be considered less than an universe because what is being destroyed is "time" not "space"

But in any case. No. If you are destroying one single timeline that doesn't mean you are destroying infinite. You are just destroying the flow of time in one universe.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Destroying the space-time of a universe is akin to destroying a universe at every single solitary point in its existence, past, present, and future. Hence why Low 2-C is literally an infinitely greater tier than regular 3-A.

To clarify why Bill's tier is what it is, Bill is a higher dimensional entity (incredibly likely 4-D), which means he can play around with our universe as he sees fit. Which he does, on multiple instances, even though he is currently confined to Gravity Falls. The potential high end comes from Time Baby's statement, and since it has been heavily implied there are an infinite number of alternate realities in the GF multiverse, this would be a High 2-A feat. However, we're not 100% sure that if this were to happen, Bill would survive. He didn't seem very worried, though.

Asriel is mutliversal+, but I doubt Hyper Goner is. At least the one he used. It was hilariously casual, and that entire first half of the fight is just him messing around with Frisk. It's likely (as was shown by everything suddenly becoming a black void and ceasing to be), that Asriel going 100% is >>>> his casual Hyper Goner.

Anyway, I'd still probably vote for Asriel due to his overall cheapness, but I just wanted to do some clarification.

 

[Jaften]

Yeah, I'd agree. I think Asriel has a higher chance of winning here.

 

[BillCipher326]

Jaften, in the book Dipper and Mabel Guide's to Nonstop Fu (121), Bill say:

But i've got places to be and alterate realities to tamper with!

This proves that he has power over other universes minimally.

(This being in non-existential form)

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Asriel.

 

[Elvis_Adika]

Wanted to side with Bill, my favourite villain, but he has no chance against Asriel, so asriel win this sadly!!!

 

[BillCipher326]

but he has no chance against Asriel


Less... Less.

 

[Elvis_Adika]

Hey lets not come to conclusion yet.

We still havent seen Bill's full potential yet and he could be (possibly) be omniversal level!!!!

I mean, we havent seen him using his literal INFNITE POWER. so we have to wait until Weirdmageddon Part 3 comes out.

Then, we will decide who is the winner.

 

[BillCipher326]

Yes, i agree.

In the Take Back the Falls, or in the special episode, I know will show more feats.

 

[Jaften]

Hey lets not come to conclusion yet.
We still havent seen Bill's full potential yet and he could be (possibly) be omniversal level!!!!

I mean, we havent seen him using his literal INFNITE POWER. so we have to wait until Weirdmageddon Part 3 comes out.

Then, we will decide who is the winner.

However, I think that for the time being, Asriel should be considered the likely victor, with Bill Cipher the underdog.

 

[Elvis_Adika]

Yeah, for now, this will not be added to their win/losses list.

We just have to wait until the finale comes out then we will see Bill Cipher's True Power

 

[Jaften]

Yeah, for now, this will not be added to their win/losses list.
We just have to wait until the finale comes out then we will see Bill Cipher's True Power

Fair enough.

 

[ShinyMagicalGirl]

Finale out already. Thoughts?

 

[Jaften]

Unless Bill Cipher suddenly gained confirmed 2-A status, he's still lower tier than Asriel Dreemurr.

 

[Elvis_Adika]

Wow, I always thought that Bill would just play around and just joke all day long when in battle. But after seeing the finale, Bill is extremely scary when he is very serious.

Also, Bill is confirmed to have 2-A status and even GREATER than that. He has the potential to reach even Tier 1. His very very unique ability where he can ascend to an even higher dimensions, which makes Bill an even greater threat.

I vote for Bill mainly due how serious and angry he will get when he is fighting a formidable opponent.

 

[BillCipher326]

I really think Bill is of the 5 DIMENSION and MORE.

Why? He EASILY destroy Time Baby for one thousand years, this, WITHOUT range.

And Time Baby is a Multidimensional Overlord, of, minimum, 4 DIMENSION.

But in the battle, i dunno, i don't know much about Asriel.

 

[Arthur_melo]

I really think Bill is of the 5 DIMENSION and MORE.
Why? He EASILY destroy Time Baby for one thousand years, this, WITHOUT range.

And Time Baby is a Multidimensional Overlord, of, minimum, 4 DIMENSION.

But in the battle, i dunno, i don't know much about Asriel.

Defeating a 4D easily does not make you a 5D.

 

[ThemoonprinceN]

hey i did this first way long back ago =w=

 

[BillCipher326]

Not necessarily, but look sides:

Time Baby has dread of Bill;

It was easily crumbled;


I dunno if Bill can win of a infinite numbers of Time Baby's, but so far, it is.

 

[Arthur_melo]

Not necessarily, but look sides:
Time Baby has dread of Bill;

It was easily crumbled;


I dunno if Bill can win of a infinite numbers of Time Baby's, but so far, it is.

Nothing indicates that it is infinitely stronger

I fear a criminal, the criminal is infinitely stronger than me ?

 

[Arthur_melo]

Bill was physically hurt by a 3D robot and was deceived by a clever ruse .

Asriel has the ability to Save and Load, and all the souls of all the monsters of the underground (disregard the Naps ) and all your statistics are infinite so that even Frisk is able to hit even trying it

I say Asriel wins with some difficulty

 

[BillCipher326]

The Robot had a weakness of Bill.

 

[BillCipher326]

I really thik Bill to fight Asriel would not Undertale technique, because it would be the same thing to put them to fight in Weirdmageddon and leave Asriel without any power. Has no logic, they would fight each man for himself, without following rules.

 

[SomebodyData]

I really thik Bill to fight Asriel would not Undertale technique, because it would be the same thing to put them to fight in Weirdmageddon and leave Asriel without any power. Has no logic, they would fight each man for himself, without following rules.

Mountain Ebott has no affect on the battle...

 

[Arthur_melo]

I really thik Bill to fight Asriel would not Undertale technique, because it would be the same thing to put them to fight in Weirdmageddon and leave Asriel without any power. Has no logic, they would fight each man for himself, without following rules.

1- In no time I mentioned the fact that things like special attack Sans

2-a Bill weakness only prevented him from attacking the robot yet Bill suffered damage

Só lembrando que eu n├úo usei nada que n├úo funcionaria fora de Undertale Luc

 

[BillCipher326]

Então porque tá usando os esquemas de Undertale e ignorando os poderes do Bill? Isso daí de Save e Load

 

[SomebodyData]

Well @Bill, SAVE and LOAD is pretty potent

 

[Arthur_melo]

Então porque tá usando os esquemas de Undertale e ignorando os poderes do Bill? Isso daí de Save e Load

Save e Load é uma manipula├º├úo temporal+imortalidade e n├úo usa coisas que só existem em Undertale

 

[Jaften]

Wow, I always thought that Bill would just play around and just joke all day long when in battle. But after seeing the finale, Bill is extremely scary when he is very serious.
Also, Bill is confirmed to have 2-A status and even GREATER than that. He has the potential to reach even Tier 1. His very very unique ability where he can ascend to an even higher dimensions, which makes Bill an even greater threat.

I vote for Bill mainly due how serious and angry he will get when he is fighting a formidable opponent.

I really don't think that Bill's ability to "ascend" is applicable whilst in combat, so for the purposes of this battle we assume that stays at whatever level he demonstated in the show.

How is Bill Cipher confirmed for tier 2-A? And I'd like to see legitimate feats, because if you reference "he killed Time Baby" as if that proves he's 2-A... well, technically he did not kill Time Baby—not permanently. Since the Time Baby came back, I can't consider that a "true death". Anyways, physically harming 4D entities would be within the realm of possiblity for characters Tier 2-C and above, so "killing" the Time Baby should only qualify Bill for Tier 2-C. You'll need better evidence than that to convince me that Bill's a higher tier than 2-C.

 

[Arthur_melo]

Wow, I always thought that Bill would just play around and just joke all day long when in battle. But after seeing the finale, Bill is extremely scary when he is very serious.
Also, Bill is confirmed to have 2-A status and even GREATER than that. He has the potential to reach even Tier 1. His very very unique ability where he can ascend to an even higher dimensions, which makes Bill an even greater threat.

I vote for Bill mainly due how serious and angry he will get when he is fighting a formidable opponent.

I really don't think that Bill's ability to "ascend" is applicable whilst in combat, so for the purposes of this battle we assume that stays at whatever level he demonstated in the show.
How is Bill Cipher confirmed for tier 2-A? And I'd like to see legitimate feats, because if you reference "he killed Time Baby" as if that proves he's 2-A... well, technically he did not kill Time Baby—not permanently. Since the Time Baby came back, I can't consider that a "true death". Anyways, physically harming 4D entities would be within the realm of possiblity for characters Tier 2-C and above, so "killing" the Time Baby should only qualify Bill for Tier 2-C. You'll need better evidence than that to convince me that Bill's a higher tier than 2-C.

He refers to the speech of Time Baby where it is said that Bill would destroy all existence that was established on reddit as infinite universes or something.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Wasn't Bill destroying all existence if the rift stayed open only gradual, though? Not instantly? God Flowey's 2-A for erasing Frisk's SAVE and making several of his own to kill Frisk over and over. As well as destroying the game like Chara did and was stated to more powerful than them. And Asriel is supposed more powerful than God Flowey by an infinite amount (going by his profile).

The tiers for them are basically:

Bill Cipher: At least Low 2-C, likely 2-A, potentially higher

Asriel Dreemur: 2-A (fraction of his power), At least 2-A (full power)

It should also be noted that Asriel's Omnipresent in speed at his strongest while Bill's only Immeasurable, so Asriel's WAY faster.

So I think Asriel takes this, if he can go all out, if he's limited to base form only, then I don't know :/.

 

[Xenomorphios]

Bill cipher has a few weaknesses and it is shown that he can die in his physical form (yes i know it was inside the brain while he died but he had his physical form. Also it seems that his weakness is also knowing to control your dreams. Asriel by this point easily wipes out Bill cipher with less than a fraction of his power he can also be tricked by getting trapped inside a mind that is about to die which lead to bill's death

 

[Jaften]

So, can we confirm the winner yet?