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Asajj Ventress' tiering

CinCameron20

CinCameron20

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I believe that Ventress being listed as 8-B is highly inaccurate due to her confronting and contending/defeating some of the 7-C, 7-B characters in the verse.

Asajj Ventress should be tiered at "At least 7-C" in canon for the following reasons: She is comparable to Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi, and has broken both of their force walls simultaneously while she was sufficiently enraged. She also defeated Luminara Unduli (matching her force abilities, no less), and stalemated both her and Ahsoka Tano (8-B version) in a 2-on-1 fight earlier during TCW series. She also held her own briefly against Dooku and Darth Maul.

She should also have a key for the EU, and be listed as "likely High 6-A" (unless i'm mistaken), for contending with and defeating Kit Fisto, and still being comparable to Anakin and Obi-Wan.

I just found that her 8-B tiering was very strange considering that she is comparable to characters of much higher tiers.
 
She might have not been updated like the rest or was simply scaled to the lower ones which is weird as you pointed out. So i agree with the upgrade on this here.
 
Don't remember precisely, due to having watched TCW a long time ago, but based on what I remember, you're right, and Ventress' current stats are indeed irregular.

No idea about EU rating.
 
Hop's inactive right now, so he would be unable to perform said revision.

This would also scale to the Grand Inquisitor, as he was stated by Dave Filoni to not be too inferior to Ventress.
 
What about Kannan whi defeats the inquisitor? And does clone wars ashoka also scale as she was knight level and should be at least comparable to the Kannan that beat the inquisitor?
 
I honestly don't know why some characters are listed as 8-B when they are sometimes shown capable of fighting higher tier characters.

The inquisitors should be around the Grand Inquisitor in terms of tiering, but they were capable of being notable threats to the likes of Rebels Ahsoka Tano, and the fact that Ahsoka's tiering during TCW is listed where she is despite briefly contending with both General Grievous (strange tiering there as well) and Asajj Ventress (who will definitely be tier 7 after this discussion).

The gap between Jedi Knights/Padawans and Counsel Masters in canon are pretty inconsistent in my personal view, as that would suggest Ahsoka is less than 1/600th of Luminara's capabilities, when that has been proven false.
 
I believe Kanan was under a sort of light side Force Rage due to the seeming death of Ezra, but yeah, it would scale to Ahsoka.
 
I think that it is quite apparent that Ventress should get the upgrade, and Kanan should be discussed elsewhere.
 
Well, since The Everlasting has accepted this, I think that you can proceed, yes.
 
The issue here is that, didn't Asajj Ventress face off against Obi-Wan/Anakin as well as doing battle with other Jedi Masters throughout the series?

Ventress should be upgraded based on this fact alone, so depending on the stats of the characters (that Ventress fought against) sit at, Ventress should directly scale to it, I think.
 
Okay. That seems to make sense.
 
Canon Ventress has killed Jedi Masters such as Tholme (a decently powerful Jedi Master who trained Quinlan Vos). However, I would like to bring up the fact that Anakin and Vos going all out have quickly defeated Ventress and she's not really a match for Dooku. And per the Dark Disciple novel, Anakin and Vos have both been portrayed as capable of contending with Dooku alone. And Kenobi is in the same league as those two and has proven to be tough for Ventress to take down in a proper fight. During the Battle of Teth, Kenobi was able to overpower Ventress with his bare hands and then casually blasted her back.

Ventress has often relied on trickery and taking advantage of her surroundings and even psychological warfare (as Kenobi detailed in Dark Disciple) in order to stand a better chance against Jedi on the level of High Councillors. It would be best to scale her to Luminara (whom she matched in power) and leave her at plain 7-C. She can contend with High Councillor level Jedi and is equal to full fledged Jedi Masters but she is ultimately incapable of beating them in a proper fight on neutral ground. Anakin, Vos, Maul, Dooku, even Kenobi are all clearly superior. She does have tremendous potential though (hence Sidious asked Dooku to dump her).

Note: These are my observations on the power of Ventress in canon. I'm not putting it forth as fact and saying it should just be accepted.
 
@Soldier Blue - I Agree, especially since that, in terms of power, it has been made clear that she is roughly equal in force power to someone like Luminara.
 
Okay. Since the changes have been applied, should we close this thread?
 
Looking at the changes made upon a glance, the changes look okay. However, do you think we should wait for more input?
 
I do not know. I suppose that we could wait for a while longer.
 
It all looks okay except for the striking strength. Why is she at that level while all other Force Adepts are still at the old levels? Isn't that discussion still going on with Everlasting planning a new blog or thread discussing this issue?
 
Soldier Blue said:
It all looks okay except for the striking strength. Why is she at that level while all other Force Adepts are still at the old levels? Isn't that discussion still going on with Everlasting planning a new blog or thread discussing this issue?
Click to expand...

Yes, Everlasting is planning a new thread that sums up this issue, although the Striking Strength issue seems iffy to me.

The mere fact that Asajj Ventress managed to duel with Jedi Council members as well as (Mace windu, cough) would mean that Ventress' Striking Strength should be relatively comparable to them.

However, if their Striking Strength is supposed to directly match their AP (with the Force), this would bring out some inconsistencies, as all of the Jedi that dueled each other would all have the same tiering, based on their Striking Strength. The current stats that we have for the Star Wars characters do not accurately indicate this.
 
@Lina - Asajj's fight with Windu was extremely brief, and Windu gave her a chance to surrender, which led to her retreating. Scaling her to Windu does not work, especially with how their fight went.
 
@Cin: Even if it was a brief duel, the issue here is that Windu is currently rated Low 5-B (High 7-A in Canon), while Asajj Ventress is rated Likely High 6-A (7-C in Canon).

  • The gap between the AP is large enough that if their Striking Strength directly matched their AP, there would not even be a duel in the first place.
  • And then you have Ventress' duels with Anakin Skywalker during the Clone Wars animated series, and a bunch of other duels that Ventress had, and Ventress managed to hold her own just fine there.
Would this mean that the gap in power between Ventress and the Jedi that she dueled with is relatively close? From what I have seen regarding Ventress's duels, the gap doesn't seem to be all that wide here.
 
She's comparable to the likes of Luminara in canon, and comparable to the likes of Sora Bolq in Legends. Like I said before, Mace Windu was not attempting to murder her, and gave her a chance to surrender, Ventress acknowledging the difference in their power.

I do personally think that the counsel members of this era should be placed higher in Legends, but I'm not entirely sure how the canon tiering works, as someone like Mace Windu is listed as "At least 7-C, likely High 7-A". I'm somewhat confused when looking at this.
 
Ventress straight up retreated from Windu when he started going all out and asked her to give up. Windu has stomped Sora Bulq once he went from purely duelling to using his Force powers. And Bulq should be around the level of Ventress in terms of Force power.
 
CinCameron20 said:
I do personally think that the counsel members of this era should be placed higher in Legends, but I'm not entirely sure how the canon tiering works, as someone like Mace Windu is listed as "At least 7-C, likely High 7-A". I'm somewhat confused when looking at this.
Click to expand...
The 7-C comes from two town level feats for High Councillor level Jedi. One of these is 14 BBY Vader (far from his prime) bringing a ship with this kind of durability down to the ground with such force that it was destroyed and wrecking an AT-AT casually with telekinesis. The High 7-A feat is also from Vader I think. But I'm not sure what to make of that feat and the "At least 7-C, likely High 7-A" business right now. I made a thread attempting an upgrade for top tier Jedi/Sith to straight up 7-A or High 7-A based on a feat of Yoda's where he tosses around a living mountain with his telekinesis. But a calc of that yielded underwhelming results.
 
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