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Arthur Leywin Speed Downgrade

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Arthur is considered MFTL+ due to this calculation, but that's incorrect as the passage makes it clear that Arthur didn't react to the speed at which the ripple (time stop) traveled or create a barrier before it reached him:
Then the ripple rolled over me, and I felt time stopping.
Instead, he created the barrier after it had already rolled over him, just before the effects fully took place.

This is further supported by the following line:
She'd used aether to counter me, freeing herself from the time stop.
Which this implies that they can only counter it after it has already made contact with them

In short, Arthur shouldn't scale to the speed at which the aether/ripple travels since he didn't react to it in the first place.


Neutral:
Agree:
Disagree:
 
They have FTL+ speed calculation that Arthur can scales above. Do you agree btw?
I'm not too knowledgeable with the verse, so I'll wait to see what supporters will say, for now I'll stay neutral
 
I already asked the person who made this calculation and he said he’d respond in a bit, but it's been over a day (he's always active too), maybe he’ll respond here
 
Arthur is considered MFTL+ due to this calculation, but that's incorrect as the passage makes it clear that Arthur didn't react to the speed at which the ripple (time stop) traveled or create a barrier before it reached him:

Instead, he created the barrier after it had already rolled over him, just before the effects fully took place.

This is further supported by the following line:

Which this implies that they can only counter it after it has already made contact with them

In short, Arthur shouldn't scale to the speed at which the aether/ripple travels since he didn't react to it in the first place.


Neutral:
Agree:
Disagree:
In short, Arthur can't have reacted after taking Timestop's wave because he has a resistance based on activation and it's shown below in the part you didn't omit. Arthur didn't take the wave completely -> otherwise he can't move. It says that he reacted instinctively to the wave, so he acted during the period when the wave began to hit him, but he moved before the wave finished hitting him, so it's a very short time interval.

In short, it's reaction + perception, because Arthur saw Kezess's spell take effect, and when the spell began to hit him, he was able to react before it completely froze him-> I'd even say that his reaction speed is even faster than in my first calculation, because the moment when he reacted was even later (via his instincts).
 
In short, Arthur can't have reacted after taking Timestop's wave because he has a resistance based on activation and it's shown below in the part you didn't omit. Arthur didn't take the wave completely -> otherwise he can't move. It says that he reacted instinctively to the wave, so he acted during the period when the wave began to hit him, but he moved before the wave finished hitting him, so it's a very short time interval.

In short, it's reaction + perception, because Arthur saw Kezess's spell take effect, and when the spell began to hit him, he was able to react before it completely froze him-> I'd even say that his reaction speed is even faster than in my first calculation, because the moment when he reacted was even later (via his instincts).
Except that's not what the passage says. It explicitly stated that the ripple had already passed/rolled over him, but before it fully stopped him, he instinctively created an omnidirectional barrier in a split second to push the surrounding aether away from himself:


"Then the ripple rolled over me, and I felt time stopping."

"The aether around me flexed, but I wasn't able to expand the barrier beyond myself and the chair I sat on."
 
Except that's not what the passage says. It explicitly says that the ripple had already passed/rolled over him, but before it fully stopped him, he instinctively created an omnidirectional barrier in a split second to push the surrounding aether away from himself:


"Then the ripple rolled over me, and I felt time stopping."

"The aether around me flexed, but I wasn't able to expand the barrier beyond myself and the chair I sat on."
split second is downgrading the feat dude, then on your interpretation of the effects of the wave. Arthur and Kezess were rather close to each other as they were chatting in the same room, but when Kezess launched his time stop, Arthur was able to describe the wave and in that same description he explained that the world froze, meaning that even if the effects take place after the wave, at this scale it's completely negligible as the 2 happen more or less simultaneously. As Kezess's ability to freeze the world completely (the timeline) in a supposedly very short time, assuming this interpretation will just allow Arthur to increase his speed even more drastically, as Wave Speed >= Speed at which the effects take shape and you assume that Arthur has been hit by the wave, which reduces the initial distance of 5 meters (between him and Kezess) to simply the depth of Arthur's body (so a few dozen centimetres at best).
 
split second is downgrading the feat dude, then on your interpretation of the effects of the wave. Arthur and Kezess were rather close to each other as they were chatting in the same room, but when Kezess launched his time stop, Arthur was able to describe the wave and in that same description he explained that the world froze, meaning that even if the effects take place after the wave, at this scale it's completely negligible as the 2 happen more or less simultaneously. As Kezess's ability to freeze the world completely (the timeline) in a supposedly very short time, assuming this interpretation will just allow Arthur to increase his speed even more drastically, as Wave Speed >= Speed at which the effects take shape and you assume that Arthur has been hit by the wave, which reduces the initial distance of 5 meters (between him and Kezess) to simply the depth of Arthur's body (so a few dozen centimetres at best).
The split second is just a metaphor; don't take it literally. And that's not him actually reacting, but a description of the event.

There's a difference between the speed of the waves and the speed at which its effects fully take place. One assumes it travels beyond the planet in a few seconds thus MFTL+, while the other doesn't have a definitive time frame for how long it takes to fully stop the target (which is what Arthur reacted to). We just know it's fast.
 
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The split second is just a metaphor; don't take it literally. And that's not him actually reacting, but a description of the event.

There's a difference between the speed of its waves and the speed at which its effects fully take place. One assumes it travels beyond the planet in a few seconds thus MFTL+, while the other doesn't have a definitive time frame for how long it takes to fully stop the target. We just know it's fast.
Arthur already used static void few times, as showed in the manhwa by exemple the world stopped completly and at the same time that the wave. It's probably not fast as the wave but almost comparable, knowing that the range of static void = the world. I assume directly that the effect takes place at almost the same time as the wave. This is a logical assumption. For the description, it's a first POV novel, Arthur describe what he saw, by logic he perceive it because when he couldn't perceive it, it weren't described in the novel.
 
Arthur already used static void few times, as showed in the manhwa by exemple the world stopped completly and at the same time that the wave. It's probably not fast as the wave but almost comparable, knowing that the range of static void = the world. I assume directly that the effect takes place at almost the same time as the wave. This is a logical assumption. For the description, it's a first POV novel, Arthur describe what he saw, by logic he perceive it because when he couldn't perceive it, it weren't described in the novel.
That's the big issue, you're making an assumption. Without actual confirmation, that remains pure speculation. Besides, if he could react to something as fast as the waves as you've claimed then activating the barrier before it reached him would’ve been more than possible, but that wasn't the case.
 
For the description, it's a first POV novel, Arthur describe what he saw, by logic he perceive it because when he couldn't perceive it, it weren't described in the novel.
He's the narrator, so that's precisely why not everything written in the novel reflects his exact thoughts or reactions. This is why people misunderstand Ayanokoji as more expressive in the novel, not realizing that not everything written there is truly his
 
That's the big issue, you're making an assumption. Without actual confirmation, that remains pure speculation. Besides, if he could react to something as fast as the waves as you've claimed then activating the barrier before it reached him would’ve been more than possible, but that wasn't the case.
My speculation is based on logical assumption and well knew elements in the story, we know that as i sayed, the time stop takes effect at almost the same time of the wave (showed in the manhwa and even the anime today...), it's why those both propaging speed are comprable so the feat wouldn't change that much, it's clearly negligible.
 
He's the narrator, so that's precisely why not everything written in the novel reflects his exact thoughts or reactions. This is why people misunderstand Ayanokoji as more expressive in the novel, not realizing that not everything written there is truly his
idk if we can compare COTE novel and TBATE novel, thoughts that as i said, when Arthur get blitzed by something, in the narration it doesn't decribed to the reader directly but based on possible assumption from Arthur. In this case, Arthur describe perfectly the mana partcule get froze in the athmosphere. Another point who prove that the effect tales place shortly after the wave and for a Multi solar system ranged spell, it's negligible to have some meters of differencies in the result.
 
My speculation is based on logical assumption and well knew elements in the story, we know that as i sayed, the time stop takes effect at almost the same time of the wave (showed in the manhwa and even the anime today...), it's why those both propaging speed are comprable so the feat wouldn't change that much, it's clearly negligible.
It's flawed logic. Just because they both appear instantly doesn't mean they're exactly or even nearly the same speed. That's like comparing the speed of a fire attack to how long it takes to fully burn its target. Either you provide actual evidence, or I'll stop responding and let the admins and the others decide for themselves.
 
idk if we can compare COTE novel and TBATE novel, thoughts that as i said, when Arthur get blitzed by something, in the narration it doesn't decribed to the reader directly but based on possible assumption from Arthur. In this case, Arthur describe perfectly the mana partcule get froze in the athmosphere. Another point who prove that the effect tales place shortly after the wave and for a Multi solar system ranged spell, it's negligible to have some meters of differencies in the result.
That's the case for all first-person POV novels. And as I said, if it were really a description of his reaction time, then activating the barrier before it had reached him would have been more than possible.
 
We do have a comparison to this feat as this isn't the first time Kezess used static void in Arthur’s presence
Before leaving, Lord Indrath had given me one piece of advice. Oddly, he had activated his aether ability, freezing time for everyone present—even his wife—except for the two of us. I’d stared blankly at the king of the asuras as Myre, Sylvie, and the guards remained static, and he had left me with a cryptic message:
‘It’s wisest to close your heart to the elf princess.’
That was all he had said before withdrawing his powers and having the guards escort Sylvie and me back to Windsom and Wren, who were waiting for us outside.
In this case, he didn’t even process what had happened until everyone present (except him as he was intentionally excluded from static void by Kezess) were frozen.
Whether he reacted (activating barrier) or not, he did perceive the speed of ripple. Which was what the calc calculated
 
We do have a comparison to this feat as this isn't the first time Kezess used static void in Arthur’s presence

In this case, he didn’t even process what had happened until everyone present (except him as he was intentionally excluded from static void by Kezess) were frozen.
Whether he reacted (activating barrier) or not, he did perceive the speed of ripple. Which was what the calc calculated
The situation isn't the same, since in this scene it's not really directed at him, and this was before it explained how the time stop aether actually works. If we got a POV from Elder Rinia when she countered Arthur's time stop, the same passage would have been stated.

It's just, again, simply an exact description of the event so we would know what the hell is going on, rather than him actually seeing the ripple coming toward him, otherwise, he would have countered it before it actually reached him.
 
The situation isn't the same, since in this scene it's not really directed at him, and this was before it explained how the time stop aether actually works. If we got a POV from Elder Rinia when she countered Arthur's time stop, the same passage would have been stated.

It's just, again, simply an exact description of the event so we would know what the hell is going on, rather than him actually seeing the ripple coming toward him, otherwise, he would have countered it before it actually reached him.
the assumption that all he had to do was react when the spell was first cast is irrelevant to the explanation of the scene. But before explaining this point I'm going to summarize the scene as a whole, because after rereading the scans there are presuppositions of t'a par that haven't been demonstrated or that are no longer relevant, taking all the panels.


1 - The first action is Kezess activating the "static void" spell -> it's a time stop spell based on omnidirectional propagation (via Arthur's descritipn who describes the world progressively freezing with the propagation of the wave)
-> Quote : "Kezess made a short, sharp cutting motion with one hand, and aether flared outward from him, rippling through the atmosphere, causing the world itself to harden and go still. The mana particles drifting in the air were motionless, and a string of herbs, which had
been slowly rotating in the subtle air currents, froze."



2 - The second action or important element is the wave reaching Arthur's coordinates, so the wave is at his level, Arthur describes that he feels it. Then he describes the time beginning to freeze -> this is logical, as the wave is at his level and the wave is the sign of the propagation of the time stop. In his description, he semantically adds the element of the time stop at the same time as the wave's propagation, and this will be explained with the different steps.
-> Quote : "Then the ripple rolled over me, and I felt time stopping"


3 - The third element that will answer your “debunk” on why Arthur didn't react at the beginning. While Arthur is being hit by the Time Stop wave, he has a flashback in which he remembers Elder Rinnia managing to escape it, and it's after this flashback that he pulls himself out of the timestop. But basically, he didn't react before because he didn't have the knowledge that he could to resist the attack because it was the mental unblocking by thinking of Rinnia that enabled him to do so, and this will be demonstrated in the 4th action.
-> Quote : "My mind flashed back to a time before the Relictombs, before my draconic form, before Sylvie's sacrifice.
I remembered sitting with Elder Rinia. I'd been suspicious about the nature of her powers, and so activated Static Void without warning. She'd used aether to counter me, freeing herself from the time-stop spell."



4 - Arthur describes how, using his instincts, he wrapped himself in Aether, enabling him to extricate himself from the wave that was coming into contact with him. My explanation here is simple: given that he escaped from the wave that was described as surrounding him, this means that the wave didn't completely pass through his position, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to get away from it. In action number 2, he was in the process of catching the wave, but at no point was it specified that the wave had passed completely over him. In short, there's a difference between having the wave at your level and having it completely overwhelm you. Knowing that, as explained in the description of action 2, Arthur began to feel time freeze on his person precisely because the wave was at his level and unfurling on his body, but this again doesn't mean that it completely overtook his body if it was unfurling on him. As it spread over Arthur's body, he reacted by pure instinct, just before he was completely buried, and that's why it's explained when he says he escaped the wave. He couldn't have escaped if he'd completely passed over it because he escaped by putting Aether on his body -> his body didn't move.
-> Quote : "Reacting on pure instinct, i pushed outward against the ripple with a burst of my own Aether"

Then I'll move on to your last point about describing events, and I'll use the example of classroom of the elite, which is what you used as an example to try to debunk Arthur's perception through description. In Classroom of the Elite in Volume 3 of Year 2, in the island arc with Kushida's POV when she confronts Ichika in the forest, she gets blitzed and we as the reader don't get a description of Ichika's action, it's after she's been hit that Kushida assumes via several factors (pain and marks) that she's been hit but this is presented to us after the action has taken place. In Arthur's case, there's nothing to make us assume that he didn't perceive the time stop, either narratively or semantically.

To sum up, Arthur has indeed reacted to the time stop and this shouldn't change anything in the calculation, except for an increase.
 
the assumption that all he had to do was react when the spell was first cast is irrelevant to the explanation of the scene. But before explaining this point I'm going to summarize the scene as a whole, because after rereading the scans there are presuppositions of t'a par that haven't been demonstrated or that are no longer relevant, taking all the panels.


1 - The first action is Kezess activating the "static void" spell -> it's a time stop spell based on omnidirectional propagation (via Arthur's descritipn who describes the world progressively freezing with the propagation of the wave)
-> Quote : "Kezess made a short, sharp cutting motion with one hand, and aether flared outward from him, rippling through the atmosphere, causing the world itself to harden and go still. The mana particles drifting in the air were motionless, and a string of herbs, which had
been slowly rotating in the subtle air currents, froze."



2 - The second action or important element is the wave reaching Arthur's coordinates, so the wave is at his level, Arthur describes that he feels it. Then he describes the time beginning to freeze -> this is logical, as the wave is at his level and the wave is the sign of the propagation of the time stop. In his description, he semantically adds the element of the time stop at the same time as the wave's propagation, and this will be explained with the different steps.
-> Quote : "Then the ripple rolled over me, and I felt time stopping"


3 - The third element that will answer your “debunk” on why Arthur didn't react at the beginning. While Arthur is being hit by the Time Stop wave, he has a flashback in which he remembers Elder Rinnia managing to escape it, and it's after this flashback that he pulls himself out of the timestop. But basically, he didn't react before because he didn't have the knowledge that he could to resist the attack because it was the mental unblocking by thinking of Rinnia that enabled him to do so, and this will be demonstrated in the 4th action.
-> Quote : "My mind flashed back to a time before the Relictombs, before my draconic form, before Sylvie's sacrifice.
I remembered sitting with Elder Rinia. I'd been suspicious about the nature of her powers, and so activated Static Void without warning. She'd used aether to counter me, freeing herself from the time-stop spell."



4 - Arthur describes how, using his instincts, he wrapped himself in Aether, enabling him to extricate himself from the wave that was coming into contact with him. My explanation here is simple: given that he escaped from the wave that was described as surrounding him, this means that the wave didn't completely pass through his position, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to get away from it. In action number 2, he was in the process of catching the wave, but at no point was it specified that the wave had passed completely over him. In short, there's a difference between having the wave at your level and having it completely overwhelm you. Knowing that, as explained in the description of action 2, Arthur began to feel time freeze on his person precisely because the wave was at his level and unfurling on his body, but this again doesn't mean that it completely overtook his body if it was unfurling on him. As it spread over Arthur's body, he reacted by pure instinct, just before he was completely buried, and that's why it's explained when he says he escaped the wave. He couldn't have escaped if he'd completely passed over it because he escaped by putting Aether on his body -> his body didn't move.
-> Quote : "Reacting on pure instinct, i pushed outward against the ripple with a burst of my own Aether"

Then I'll move on to your last point about describing events, and I'll use the example of classroom of the elite, which is what you used as an example to try to debunk Arthur's perception through description. In Classroom of the Elite in Volume 3 of Year 2, in the island arc with Kushida's POV when she confronts Ichika in the forest, she gets blitzed and we as the reader don't get a description of Ichika's action, it's after she's been hit that Kushida assumes via several factors (pain and marks) that she's been hit but this is presented to us after the action has taken place. In Arthur's case, there's nothing to make us assume that he didn't perceive the time stop, either narratively or semantically.

To sum up, Arthur has indeed reacted to the time stop and this shouldn't change anything in the calculation, except for an increase.
All of this can also be explained by what I just said, it's just an exact detailed description of the event, rather than his actual reactions
 
All of this can also be explained by what I just said, it's just an exact detailed description of the event, rather than his actual reactions
I think you simply haven't read my argument as to why it's illogical that it's not a description. So I'm going to spell it out again so that you avoid ignoring it yet again.

-> First, you gave us the example of classroom of the Elite with a first-person narrator to justify a narrator describing elements outside his perception, but using this same example and as shown in this panel from a POV of kushida in volume 3 of year 2, she was blitzed by Amasawa and she wasn't able to describe the attack, which makes sense because she wasn't perceived. It was only afterwards that she began to assume she'd hit him. The same thing happened again later. Ichika announces that she's going to hit Kushida, yet Kushida didn't perceive any of the action; she only describes what she perceives, i.e. the pain and side-effects of Amasawa's point. Literally, she even underlines her incomprehension of the scene, but once again without describing how it happened, because she didn't perceive it.

In short, using COTE's example, when we have a first-person narrator, he can only narrate what he perceives. In the example of Arthur's feat, he perceives Kezess's attack, the wave that spreads with time that stops, so it's well within his field of perception.

As well as demonstrating why it doesn't work with your example, I'm going to demonstrate it with Tbate directly.

-> During Kordri training in the Asura land Arthur get blitzed by Kordri. De didn't described Kordri's action because he didn't see him. But after getting it and the action done, Arthur describes the result, Kordri's hand in his body. Yet he didn't see the action and described it after it had taken place, when Kordri had finished moving at a speed not perceptible to Arthur. Once again, Arthur was blitzed by Kordri and was unable to describe the movements that were beyond his field of perception. In short, this proves once again that Arthur as narrator can only describe what he is able to perceive.

Now I'm going to finish and debunk all your supposed assumptions. In the very narrative context of the feat, Arthur was obliged to perceive the propagation and effects of Kezess' time stop because it was by being able to perceive them that he was able to remember the example with elder Rinnia (I specify that if he hadn't perceived anything in the first place, he wouldn't have been able to react. ), it's precisely this example that will give him the trigger to find a way to defend himself by reacting to the den Kezess wave. And as explained, without perception of the Kezess attack and the effects of the time stop taking shape, Arthur can't compare it to the moment when he had experienced a similar case with the elder Rinnia, and so he wouldn't have had the trigger that enabled him to react at the last moment before he got caught in the time stop.

In short, by three way different i debunked your assumption. this CRT downgrade is therefore irrelevant.
 
Actually, one last post in support of Korf3ll's point
TM always points it out whenever Arthur’s perception gets blitzed even if the scene was from Arthur’s POV
Vs Uto
Uto’s hand blurred. It blurred. Despite being in Realmheart and having Thunderclap Impulse heightening my senses, I couldn’t clearly see his strike.
His fist hit me like a train. Even with the density of mana protecting my body, I felt myself flicker in and out of consciousness. By the time I had collected myself, I was twenty feet away, with my back up against the shattered trunk of a tree.
While using Burst Step
I willed the mana to flow down my legs, timed to the millisecond to maximize the burst of strength that I’d receive.
The world blurred around me as I took a single, mana-enhanced step, and my eyes and brain struggled to collect, translate, and sort the influx of images. If my reflexes weren’t heightened through the usage of internal lightning magic, I would be more likely to kill myself by running into a wall than actually hurt my enemy.
Vs (not really) Kezess
My eyes had stayed fixed on Lord Indrath while he studied me, so when I saw Sylvie appear suddenly in his arms, as if from thin air, my immediate reaction was a clumsy and baffled astonishment.
“What the–?!” I sputtered. I reflexively reached for my bond, but Windsom placed his hand on my shoulder.
“What? Am I not allowed to hold my own granddaughter?” Lord Indrath retorted, holding Sylvie in one hand. Lifting her up to his eye level, Lord Indrath turned her around, inspecting every angle of her sleeping fox form.
“I see you have done nothing to train
Vs Taci
Getting my feet under me, I matched the asura move for move. We fell into the patterns taught to us long ago by Kordri, but it quickly became clear that Taci’s training had gone far beyond my own, his every strike countering mine with brutal efficiency. If not for my asuran physique, he would have outpaced me in moments.
Taci vanished. I let my senses unfocus, searching for the aetheric pathways with the God Step rune, but…there were no paths here.
Something hit me like a battering ram between my shoulder blades, the relic armor only just withstanding the blow, and I was knocked forward. Taci appeared in front of me, and the long, winged blade of his spear plunged through my armor just above my stomach, the black scales bending and shearing apart.
So yeah, it being from Arthur’s POV has never stopped the author from describing a blitz
 
Arthur is considered MFTL+ due to this calculation, but that's incorrect as the passage makes it clear that Arthur didn't react to the speed at which the ripple (time stop) traveled or create a barrier before it reached him:

Instead, he created the barrier after it had already rolled over him, just before the effects fully took place.

This is further supported by the following line:

Which this implies that they can only counter it after it has already made contact with them

In short, Arthur shouldn't scale to the speed at which the aether/ripple travels since he didn't react to it in the first place.


Neutral:
Agree:
Disagree:
It's literally stated Arthur reacted to it with his aetheric bubble and this Arthur does NOT have resistance to time stop so has HAD to react to static void using his aether arts which is whole point of interaction and why kezess is so interested in Arthur and how Arthur could not hold out his bubble infinitely and was gonna be cooked if kezess didn't remove static void
 
Disagree based off of Korfell's reasons.

It's literally stated Arthur reacted to it with his aetheric bubble and this Arthur does NOT have resistance to time stop so has HAD to react to static void using his aether arts which is whole point of interaction and why kezess is so interested in Arthur and how Arthur could not hold out his bubble infinitely and was gonna be cooked if kezess didn't remove static void
Arthur could resist a little to static void but yeah he is limited, i think with training he could do more btw
 
Arthur could resist a little to static void but yeah he is limited, i think with training he could do more btw
Possibly but at least Kezess's static void is too potent for him at that point that's why he even struggles when he has aetheric bubble
 
I can describe how it feels being shot, but that doesn't make me a bullet timer, what kind of nonsense is this? He literally gets HIT by the attack, like what?
 
True
You are a bullet timer however, if you actually followed the movement of the bullet
No? He isn't describing it beyond basic ***** "the attack hitted me", I can say the same about mike tyson hitting me on the head, but that doesn't mean I can dodge his punches.
 
The attack hit me ≠ I'm seeing this attack hit me
If you think Arthur's case is the former despite clear differences in narration, then there's nothing more i can say that'll change your mind
So we'll just have to agree to disagree
 
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