Arifureta Zero Revisions vol 6, Micellaneous, Stats and Hax Scaling Blog

[azontr]

I think what Manzi wants is scans to back up the scaling.

 

[YungManzi]

statments and showings that Y ancient magic < X ancient magic.

No, as someone that have read both novels I can say for sure that is completely different to Tsuki Ga, here the amount of magic power you have don't matter to the potency of your hax (if that was the case then Yue would stomp almost everything with easy from vol 1, Miledi would be unstoppable with her infinite mana pool and the world tree avatars would be invincible with their infinite magic)

What are those statements and showing saying exactly?

Well for Tsuki ga, amount of magic power matters for resistance, not necessarily potency. Plenty of magic has potency that's really broken and their user's magic power pales in comparison to the target. But that's a derail.

 

[YungManzi]

I think what Manzi wants is scans to back up the scaling.

Yeah, I don't even agree with D. Gray Man general layered hax scaling; but even that has decent reasoning and a cohesive system that doesn't go past 5 or 6.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Can go look for some scans to some parts, the more at hand being the ones regarding Divine Edict, though since the verse is so ******* long (13 main story ln vols, 6 Zero vols, and more than 440 wn chapters) I would take a lot of time to gather all of them, this was done mainly with all my knowledge about the verse as the member who probably know the most of the verse, just in case I got something wrong I also asked for confirmation in the general thread and it seemed like everything was ok.

 

[azontr]

doesn't go past 5 or 6.

I know this is derailing but D.Gray Man Top Tiers have like 10-11 layers of hax.

But yeah, gonna agree with Yung on this one, I'd like to see some scans for the 41 layers thing.

 

[YungManzi]

41 layers for general blanket hax and resistance to several dozens of layered hax is CRAZY to let through with little to no scans though kek.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

this got nothing to do with the thread but
Tsuki ga resistance come from how much magic a person have and that literally what make the mc op and equal to gods, so yeah the scaling work by measuring magic power

 

[YungManzi]

this got nothing to do with the thread but
Tsuki ga resistance come from how much magic a person have and that literally what make the mc op and equal to gods, so yeah the scaling work by measuring magic power

Yeah, we're already past that.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Finally did the comment explaining the scaling chain with scans:

Atavist (Atavist are the only people able to naturally use at least a form of ancient magic). Atavist Templar Knights are elite knights from the chruch (the chruch go to search through all the world Atavist with powerful abilitites to make them join their forces). Holy Templar Knights are the elite of the Templar Knights (all of them are Atavist with powerful special magic), the Paladins are the absolute elite of the chruch in charge of protect the pope (all of them have specially powerful magic that could rival ancient magic though at the end of the day they still fall short to true ancient magic users as show each time they fought against one). Ancient Magic Users are absolutely above all other Atavist to the point that is common sense that even the strongest atavist is helpless against those who can use ancient magic (which is show to be true through all Zero with ancient magic users always overwhelming hax wise non ancient magic users, is even show how they can very casually copy with a glance and do far better the special magic of Holy Templar Knights or dispel paladins special magic. Is because their absolute superiority compared with other Atavist that wars can happen to obtain an ancient magic user and it was considered a miracle fated to change the world that seven ancient magic users were born in the Zero era). Hajime party after Miledi Labyrinth got gravity magic and trained with it until have a decent skill with the magic (Hajime was able to mix gravity and creation magic, while Yue could do things like create original spells by mixing elemental and gravity magic which was something noted to be hard by Miledi and that the ten years old Miledi was unable to do despite having years using gravity magic). Hajime party at Naiz Labyrinth were better with ancient magic after months of training with it (around two arcs since they got gravity magic and with like 2-3 months of training. At this point Hajime could do stronger artifacts and Yue was considerably more proficient with gravity magic). Fried showed to have a pure better proficiency with ancient magic that Hajime party (thanks to years developing his metamorphosis magic he could create a immense number of monsters with a great repertoire of special magics, and his spatial magic was also decent despite gaining it after a short time ago and it being an ancient magic harder to use than gravity magic). Hajime party at Meiru Labyrinth were stronger than Freid with ancient magic do to their month of training with the purpose of destroy him the next time (they not only trained with their new restoration magic but also trained in general with their other ancient magics). Liberators after Hearst battle were beter at ancient magic than Hajime party (the Liberators in general show a far greater proficiency, with the abillity to casually do things that Hajime party can't, like casually do teleports without even needing portals, create pocket dimensions or create illusions of the past with restoration magic for example). the Liberators after Andika sinking were considerably stronger than before do to growing through the fight against the army of Holy Templar Knights and specially the fight against the divine beast Leaviathan (through this fight Miledi needed to surpass her limits an hold for a extended period of time an massive island with her gravity magic, Oscar created artifacts able to defend against ancient magic, Naiz needed to push himself to teleport all the habitants of a island, and more things that previously they wouldn't be able to do). Hajime party at the beginning of their encounter with the Liberators got stronger than the Liberators thanks to learn and improve their techniques (everyone in Hajime party did this), similarly the Liberators also learned their improved skills and futher improved them, and this cycle repeated several times through all their encounter. Hajime party after the demon invasion were better at ancient magic than before do to their training to face servants of Ehit like the Apostles and do to their efforts for days to revive Kaori and grant her a stronger body. Hajime party before evolution magic were better than before with ancient magic after some more months of training and complete the Haltina Labyrinth which is considered particularly difficult between the seven great labyrinths (reason to why one first need to complete another four labyrinths before have the right to challenge it, inside it was even create a spell like Divine Purgatory). The Liberators after the demon king fight were stronger than before do to need to surpass his anti-ancient magic measures (they also got stronger with the fights itselfs, specially at the end when they needed to surpass their limits to face Alva while possessing Rasul). The Liberators at Haltina invasion were stronger than before do to face for a entire month the fanatic army of the chruch (they also obtained the buff from evolution magic, which increase the potency of anything, including abilitites and ancient magics). The Liberators after Haltina invasion were better with ancient magic not only because they needed to surpass their limits at the end of the invasion, but also because after fight an apostle they trained continously with their ancient magic to become stronger. Hajime party Post-Haltina got far stronger do to all of them not only gain the power of evolution magic but be near to reach the essence of each ancient magic (as a matter of fact they reached the essences a month after obtain evolution magic, when they completed the Schnee Labyrinth). Alva have be the follower god of Ehit for thousands of years and he have learned ancient magic from him (as a matter of fact he even learned Divine Edict which is a really powerful spirit magic spell, which become stronger with the true/full name of the user), Alvaheit Divine Edict is weaker than Ehit Divine Edict but can still affect Hajime party, though given time they can grow to resist it (different to when they faced Ehit Divine Edict). Hajime party post Schnee not only become able to resist Alvaheit Divine Edict, but were able to easily use the essence of ancient magics (like the ability to analyse abstract information from evolution magic for example). Liberators at the moment of their revolution completely mastered ancient magic (as easily see in this crt) beyong what Hajime party could do before their trainig to Ehit war but even then the Liberators were affected by Zero Ehit Divine Edict despite they being able to naturally resist Laus spirit magic. Ehit at the Zero era was weaker than his current era version because his existence become stronger the more faith he accumulate (this to the point that something that at Zero era could destroy his existence in the current time can't do anything against him), Zero Ehitorujue Divine Edict was stronger do to use his full name, current era Ehit Divine Edict is stronger than his previous version, and Ehitorujue Divine Edict is naturally above that. Hajime party at the time of the war with Ehit is massively stronger with their ancient magic than before (their mastery with it even surpassed the Liberators at the moment of their revolution, an example is how Tio became able to transform the body of beings and turn them in dragons both in body and soul) and do to also be fully prepared to kill Ehit they have Soul Shells which can resist Ehitorujue Divine Edict (they themselves also developed resistance to it, as showed by Shea and Hajime). A serious Ehit possessing Yue is above Hajime (as saw in the final fight, in which he is show to use some techniques of Hajime party but better). Hajime party after Ehit war were stronger than before (perfect example being how Yue is now able to do everything Ehit can, but better). High-god level Apparitions are strong enough that even Soul Shells were having problems to resist them for more than a few moments (this despite Soul Shell resisting without problem not only Ehitorujue Divine Edict and soul attacks but also resisting the soul abilitites of Hajime party when they fight between themselves). Hajime party at the first year of the after stories were stronger than at the end of Ehit war (this is because they have a exponentially grow rate, and there happening at least three big arcs where they show they superiority to before, like Yue affecting the information of all the beings on a world to remove their natural ability to produce energy, Hajime having the ability to brainwash all a planet or affect information on a global scale, or even Shea for example having the ability to use in offensives ways ancient magic despite previously being unable do to extremely poor affinity, Shizuku now having the ability to control more sword and very casually use her True Strike, Kaori can resurrect people after more hour passed and in far worse conditions, etc), Hajime party at the second year is stronger than the previous year do to the same reasons (in this case it was also because Hajime began to master other uniques energies and do some more crazy artifacts). The Dragon's Shadow was dangerous enough that even various people of Hajime level had problems facing it (Kaori was even at her limit just defending the team from his curses), the fully awakened Dragon is far stronger than his shadow (the reason to why the shadow was constantly getting stronger was because the dragon was getting nearer to awaken). Hajime party got stronger after the Dragon fight (this because of various reasons, like Hajime giving them all infinite power so they could use it to use powers that previously they couldn't, Hajime also showed to forcibly control all of a planet energy, and after this arc they also began to gather conception which turn them stronger), Hajime party at the late years of the after stories are stronger than now do to various of the previous reasons (specially the conception since that make the existence of a being higher).

Everything have the reasoning explained and scans trying to show the point.

 

[YungManzi]

First, why exactly does having more powerful magic constitute a layer of resistance bypassing?

We don't even grant Bleach's Soul Crush additional layers for such things as merely having a more powerful soul/soul power.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

because unlike bleach it ignore magic power difference thats why its a hax

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

First, why exactly does having more powerful magic constitute a layer of resistance bypassing?

We don't even grant Bleach's Soul Crush additional layers for such things as merely having a more powerful soul/soul power.

Maybe you misunderstand something, I wasn't counting having more powerful general magic as a layer, but instead more powerful ancient magic as a layer, and the reason is pretty obvious, because that mean that their ancient magic is more potent than other ancient magic, including their previous selfs that were unable to do what they can with their current ancient magic (take for example Hajime, the more powerful his creation magic get the more ancient magic can mix in his creations and more complex along of powerful became his inventions, like how after encountering the Liberators he became so much better with it that he could do now things like create an satellite type artifact with a miniature sun inside).

Don't know eneough about Bleach to comment there, but I know enough about Arifureta to say confidently that getting a more powerful ancient magic is really significant.

 

[YungManzi]

Having more powerful ancient magic is fine and all, but what exactly says that should be considered a layer in and of itself?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

The fact that it mean that it have a higher potency than x other ancient magic, which is a layer?

 

[Rikimarox2]

The fact that it mean that it have a higher potency than x other ancient magic, which is a layer?

That's... not how it works?

"A soul's manip is stronger than B's soul manip, therefore A's soul manip is a layer higher" is not how it works. Statements of it being stronger is nice and all, but you need feats of it having affected people who resisted, say, B's soul manip.

 

[YungManzi]

The fact that it mean that it have a higher potency than x other ancient magic, which is a layer?

That's not how we treat layers though.

Like seriously, do you know how many layers verses like Bleach and KHR would have for their hax if we accepted that?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Like seriously, do you know how many layers verses like Bleach and KHR would have for their hax if we accepted that?

Do you know how much I don't care for those verse because I'm not supporter of them and this neither is a crt about them? This is a crt for Arifureta, so would like if is focused on Arifureta instead of Bleach for example.

That's... not how it works?

"A soul's manip is stronger than B's soul manip, therefore A's soul manip is a layer higher" is not how it works. Statements of it being stronger is nice and all, but you need feats of it having affected people who resisted, say, B's soul manip.

If we have statements of it being stronger, along with feats of it doing things that B's ancient magic can't pull do to be less potent, why shouldn't be considered a layer? I posted both reasonings with scans showing statements and feats about the superiority of each layer compared with the previous one, so logically speaking I don't see what is the problem.

 

[YungManzi]

Do you know how much I don't care for those verse because I'm not supporter of them and this neither is a crt about them? This is a crt for Arifureta, so would like if is focused on Arifureta instead of Bleach for example.

I brought up other verses to say that this is not generally how we treat hax and layers. So going by our general standards, this cannot be accepted.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I brought up other verses to say that this is not generally how we treat hax and layers. So going by our general standards, this cannot be accepted.

Could you point me in which part in the hax page is stated that only when one hax overcome a resistance can be considered a layer? Because I have the page right in front of my and it say that it depend of each verse mechanism and vary depending of a lot of factors.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Could you point me in which part in the hax page is stated that only when one hax overcome a resistance can be considered a layer? Because I have the page right in front of my and it say that it depend of each verse mechanism and vary depending of a lot of factors.

That's straight up how we rate all the resistance layers. Like, if you make a QnA right now, pretty much everyone will tell you you have to show feats of it bypassing resistances.

Unless the verse states that "If B's level is higher, then B is able to bypass A's resistance" like with some chinese novels.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Again, would like that someone point me where is officially stated that isn't valid to count as layers when a hax have statements and feats showing its superiority over another hax.

Alternatively, if everyone is really against the above things another possibility is that I go to search the scans showing how numbers matter to haxs in Arifureta and use that to define the layers of x hax based on how many people x have affected with it.

 

[YungManzi]

Alternatively, if everyone is really against the above things another possibility is that I go to search the scans showing how numbers matter to haxs in Arifureta and use that to define the layers of x hax based on how many people x have affected with it.

That's better.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Right now I'm busy, but in some hours can go to search the scans then.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Here some examples of numbers affecting the potency of things in Arifureta:

Three knights together can create a barrier able to protect against an enemy far above them. The more people attack together with curses the more powerful those cursed become, and is stated that to weaken it is needed to reduce the number of casters. The more people cast debuffing magic the stronger said magic become. The more dark beings use miasma the stronger said miasma become. While magic to repel evil cast by two hundred people is powerful, far greater numbers would be needed to face a immensely weakened apparition god. There also exist conception which make stronger the existence of a being depending on how many persons believes in said being.

If the numbers method for layers is decided then there isn't really a need to change the profiles, since they already have the numbers potency listed in the haxs of when layers were only based on numbers in the past.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Do apostles have resistance to Empathic Manipulation ?

 

[Noneless21]

Do apostles have resistance to Empathic Manipulation ?

Again, give us the scan for resistance against empathic manip, don't clutter this crt even more

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

In this specific case what he say makes sense since it's something that I already brought in another crt, that they are emotionless machines (as stated basically through most of the series), apparently Pegasus felt that that was already covered with the inorganic physiology.

 

[Noneless21]

bump

 

[Noneless21]

Bump

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Since Pegasus already finished chapter 1 of Zero vol 6 (don't know if he also read the other chapters) and most of the things in the op come from that (like 90-95% of the op), then bump I guess.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Elizhaa]

It has been like 3 weeks waiting for more inputs for the OP; at this point, I would be fine with the changes that have been made given the overall agreements. Though, people are welcome to wait for more input.

 

[Noneless21]

It has been like 3 weeks waiting for more inputs for the OP; at this point, I would be fine with the changes that have been made given the overall agreements. Though, people are welcome to wait for more input.

We're just waiting for Celestial Pegasus for his inputs, he's almost done reading the volume and he's planning to do so today

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

New Keys​

So Liberators are scaling off the 14.19 Megatons, Apostles being 5x above that being 70.95. I understand this, but why exactly do End of Zero Liberators scale to Main Story Shea's 192.75 Megatons feat?

I am guessing that had to do with the Bonus Story where Hajime and co met the Liberators in the past (have yet to read this), if so that's cool i guess, otherwise, there would be no reason to scale the Liberators who appeared thousands of years ago to the main cast.

Miledi​

This is all good, she should also get Danmaku

Even though she was ostensibly the one being driven into a corner, Miledi still had time to flirt with Oscar, a fact that irked Darrion quite a bit. As he lashed out in anger, his spear miraculously managed to dodge Miledi’s spheres, her shawls, and even the defense of her Metal Batlam and graze her side.

“Ngh, you bastard! I bet you wanna strip me with that spear and do all sorts of nasty things to me! You pervert! Eek, a pervert’s tearing my clothes off!”

As annoying as Miledi was acting, she was still firing off hundreds upon hundreds of spells each second to keep all of the lower-class Paladins at bay and also dealing with Darrion and the two apostles at the same time. Darrion couldn’t help but be impressed, though he was also still pissed off.-Volume 6, Chapter 1

Oscar​

Agreed, he should also get Retrocognition

“Give me a second to mentally prepare myself,” Miledi said, then took a deep breath.

The two of them had come here to take a picture. At Oscar’s suggestion, they’d started a picture album and taken a bunch of group and solo pictures over the past six years. And this picture would be one of the most important additions to that album. In a way, this would be a reunion for Miledi.

“I’m ready, O-chan.”

“Got it.”

Oscar put a small, palm-sized jewel in the center of the manor’s ruins. A second later, a golden glow enveloped the area. Oscar took out the jewel’s pair and held it in his hand. It was an artifact that allowed the user to recreate a vision of the past and project it anywhere. Expending a huge amount of mana, Oscar used his artifact to bring back a vision from eleven years ago. People moved backward in hyper speed while buildings were built and taken down in seconds as Oscar swam back through time. And eventually—

“Ah...”

The girl Miledi had been waiting for appeared. Belta Lievre. Her annoying smile was exactly as Miledi remembered it. Miledi unconsciously used gravity magic to float up into the air. Oscar followed after her, coming to a stop a short distance behind her. He watched quietly as the image of Belta stuck something into Miledi’s bed. Her expression was bright, and she was clearly excited for Miledi to find whatever she’d stashed.-Volume 6, Bonus Short Stories: You Did Good, Kid

Naiz​

Agree

Meiru​

Agree

Laus​

Agree, he probably should also get Supernatural Willpower, he seemingly was the only one of the Liberators who could break out off Eht's Divine Edict through sheer will

“I order you in the name of Ehit—shut your mouth,” an androgynous voice said, and Miledi’s mouth shut of its own accord. She glanced around in surprise. Oscar and the others tried to call out to her, but they couldn’t speak either.

“I order you—kneel.”

Everyone’s knees buckled, then their heads started lowering into a bow. A force so powerful it chilled Miledi and the others to their very cores was forcing their bodies to act against their will. And yet, they refused to kneel. Everyone in the world was watching them right now, so the one thing they couldn’t do was kneel before Ehit.

“Uwoooooooooooooooh!”

With a scream, Laus’s pitch-black mana surged and he freed Miledi and the others from Ehit’s control. Then, they all glared up at the sky.-Volume 6, Chapter 1

Vandre​

Agree, should also get Resistance to Magic and Status Effect Inducement

“I’m sorry, Van-sama!” Tordretta, who looked like a mini Margaretta, shouted at the same time. She was another one of the Schnee squad leaders, and she’d been facing off against Besshu and his Seraphic Eye, which could cripple anyone he looked at with numerous debilitating status effects.

Feeling despondent about her failure, Tordretta hurriedly launched her lightning-enhanced boomerang at Besshu to break his eye contact with Vandre.

“No need to panic, Tordretta! We’re wearing them down, so don’t worry!”

“Got it, Van-sama!”

Tordretta beamed, then turned back to Besshu and shouted, “But I’ll get at least one hit on you! This is for Van-samaaaaaaaaaaaa!”

Her squad bombarded Besshu from all sides while she launched herself at him to grapple in melee range.

“I’m not dead, you know...?” Vandre muttered under his breath.

Thanks to Adel reversing the debuff spell the knights were using, as well the Schnee clan’s innate magical resistance and their wyverns’ ability to zip around at high speeds, Tordretta and the others were just barely managing to keep themselves safe from the effects of Besshu’s Seraphic Eye, but Vandre was worried she might lose that edge if she lost her cool. There was no need for her to force herself to take Besshu out anyway, since their plan to whittle down the knights was working

Lyutillis​

Agreed she should also get a range upgrade to Kilometers

“Enchanted Forest Manifestor,” she declared, pointing her Guardian Rod toward the ground. A second later, pointed roots shot out of the ground underneath the knights, skewering them where they stood, thick branches lashed out like whips, and razor-sharp leaves cut through the knights’ armor.

Oscar, Laus, and Vandre had worked together using creation, metamorphosis, and spirit magic to create a special variety of seed that Lyutillis had then grown into a new species of monster—Enchanted Trents—using the powers of her Guardian Rod.

While their physical abilities were impressive, their real strength was in the fact that their special magic was Mana Absorption. They could suck out mana from the ground and use it for themselves, or give it to Lyutillis. And with the mana they provided her, Lyutillis was also able to cast a regular Forest Manifestor all the way over at the palace five kilometers away.-Volume 6, Chapter 1

Badd​

Agree, that stamina feat also gives Supernatural Willpower. Also Badd again has another lightspeed dodging

“How dare you make a fool out of me!”

“Calm yourself, Commander! The battle has devolved into a melee, we need your orders to fight effectively!”

Lelei strode up to stand by Kaime and used her mana—which was now silver thanks to her apostleification—to create another arrow. As Badd stared at the mana-rich arrow, his expression turned grim.

Lelei loosed it, sending the arrow streaking toward Badd at the speed of light. Until now he’d acted like he’d been toying with his opponents, but Badd had to dodge it in earnest. He jumped to one side and deflected the arrow with his scythe. The arrow ended up slamming into a nearby pillar and blowing right through it with ease. Lelei’s arrow was clearly enhanced with disintegration magic.

“They need two to three seconds to charge their disintegration magic! You can tell they’re doing it when they concentrate their mana in one spot!” Badd shouted while dodging another barrage of Kaime’s feathers. Meanwhile, he kept an eye on Lelei’s arrow, which did a U-turn midair to chase him down once more.

Egxess let out a roar and a black aura surrounded it. The scythe almost looked frustrated that it had failed to absorb the arrow’s mana in one go.-Volume 6, Chapter 1

He also has some sort of danger sense too

“Commander Lelei, I have an urgent report! The effects of our debuff magic appear to be neutralized!”

“Gah, but we only ever showed that to the heretics once!”

In fact, Oscar had only ever heard about the debuff spell, not seen it, but he was such a skilled synergist that a secondhand account had been enough intel for him to work with.

The nape of Badd’s neck prickled, and a second later, he felt a burning sensation on his skin.

“Shit.”

A tendril of smoky, poisonous mana appeared from the other side of the pillar and attempted to envelop Badd.-Volume 6, Chapter 1

Apostles​

Agree, they should also get Resistance to Durability Negation? Attacking them from their inside, won't work normally

“It finally worked! That’s what you get, you ******* piece of shit!”

Even though Nadia’s job was healer and she was literally a doctor, she was fighting on the front lines rather than staying with Diene...and the reason for that was that Nadia Piscott was a master of unarmed martial arts. Moreover, she incorporated healing magic into her fighting style. She overhealed her opponent’s organs, causing them to work so hard they destroyed themselves.

Her special magic, Mana Penetrator, allowed her to directly apply mana to her patients’ bodies to heal them more effectively, but it also let her bypass her opponents’ defenses to destroy their innards. Before, the effects of the knights’ holy armor and their apostleification had kept her own magic at bay, but now that Morcus’s stats had been lowered and hers boosted through evolution magic, she could actually make use of her ability.-Volume 6, Chapter 1

Type 8 Immortality: Eht can resurrection them if he wants to, hence they are immortal

Sensing a familiar presence behind her, she turned around and said, “I see you survived, Hearst-sama.”

“Us apostles are simultaneously one and infinity. As an immortal being, it would be impossible for me to die.”

It was indeed the same Hearst that Meiru had sealed away that came to stand next to Lelei. The injuries she’d suffered from Revival Reversal were completely gone.

“There’s no need to act humble. We all know that you’re the first of our lord’s apostles, as well as his favorite.”

Hearst didn’t reply. She almost seemed to be feeling regret over the fact that her master had needed to heal her not once, but twice now, so instead, she asked in a pointed voice, “Shouldn’t you be worrying more about yourself? You lost everything.”-Volume 6, Chapter 1

​

​

​

General Additions​

Agree, as for concept magic, not an expert on concept manipulation, so i will trust Elizhaa's judgement there.

Miscellaneous​

Agreed, also apparations i beleive qualify for type 1 and 2 abstract existence, and should apply to Eht as well, in his "soul" form anyway.

Stats and Hax Scaling Blog​

This is all good.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

New Keys​

So Liberators are scaling off the 14.19 Megatons, Apostles being 5x above that being 70.95. I understand this, but why exactly do End of Zero Liberators scale to Main Story Shea's 192.75 Megatons feat?

I am guessing that had to do with the Bonus Story where Hajime and co met the Liberators in the past (have yet to read this), if so that's cool i guess, otherwise, there would be no reason to scale the Liberators who appeared thousands of years ago to the main cast.

I was scaling them to that since Apostles showed to be equals to Hajime, and Hajime is comparable to Shea (at that point he is actually a bit stronger but don't really matter much) who did the crater feat, so that was the reason to why I was scaling their stats to Apostles in general.

Though that being said now that you mention it is also a true that always have be considered a possibility that the Apostles could had become stronger stat wise from Zero to the current era, in which case it would make sense to scale the Apostles AP, and thus Liberators last key, to 5x based on the fact that they were far above the Liberators in their previous key with their amps (specifically how they stomped Laus even with his 5x Limit Break). However considering how they showed to be far above the previous key Liberators even with all their growth through Zero plus their amped state (like, Laus for example lost his arm with his 5x amp after a short clash with a Apostle) then I believe is also a equally valid possibility that the reason to why they could always trash the Liberators was because they scaled (stat wise) to Hajime party even since Zero era (which kinda make senses considering how the labyrinth prepared people to face Ehit forces and how those who completed it in the current era showed to be able to fight Apostles).

Maybe their new key could have two ends? Something like 'at least 7-B (70.95 Megatons), possibly 7-A (192.75 Megatons)'? I'm fine with that though could also accept if is decided to use only one end, though in the case that the 70.95 Megatons end is choose then would probably be needed to add a new key to Apostles in Zero era to reflect that part in their stat section.

Miledi​

This is all good, she should also get Danmaku

The previous crt already covered that, just still not in the profile just to wait for this one to end and apply everything in one go. Still work as an extra scan though.

Oscar​

Agreed, he should also get Retrocognition

Yeah, forgot about that.

Laus​

Agree, he probably should also get Supernatural Willpower, he seemingly was the only one of the Liberators who could break out off Eht's Divine Edict through sheer will

Yeah, valid since everyone else was affected and he ultimately got to free everyone using his all. Is also something that could be considered consistent with how his son Sharm had a similar feat of fight back against Apostles mind manip by sheer will (that scene was really moving).

Lyutillis​

Agreed she should also get a range upgrade to Kilometers

Like with the above Miledi case in the previous crt that was upgraded, though this still a good feat.

Badd​

Agree, that stamina feat also gives Supernatural Willpower. Also Badd again has another lightspeed dodging

He also has some sort of danger sense too

Yeah, there is also the feat when one of the paladins was able to send him flying at lightspeed, which seems to support that at this point lightspeed was a thing.

That seem like the instincts that the Arifureta character have in general (at least everyone relevant), still a good feat for Badd himself.

Apostles​

Agree, they should also get Resistance to Durability Negation? Attacking them from their inside, won't work normally

Type 8 Immortality: Eht can resurrection them if he wants to, hence they are immortal

Huh, that could also sort of explain and support how they are actually able to resist the Invasive Ruin (the metamorphosis parasite) of Vandre unless he control it directly powering it.

Didn't thought about that in the moment, but guess is fair.

General Additions​

Agree, as for concept magic, not an expert on concept manipulation, so i will trust Elizhaa's judgement there.

Miscellaneous​

Agreed, also apparations i beleive qualify for type 1 and 2 abstract existence, and should apply to Eht as well, in his "soul" form anyway.

Alright.

Stats and Hax Scaling Blog​

This is all good.

So to confirm, you are fine with the original ancient magic scaling that I posted? Or you prefer if we use instead numbers?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

At least 7-B (70.95 Megatons), possibly 7-A (192.75 Megatons) is fine with me.

Numbers would be better for hax scaling honestly, generally when talking about layers the idea is that if character a uses say mind hax and another, character b resist, character b has baseline resistance, if another character, character c comes and mind hax character b that's 1 layer, essentially you have to affect someone who resists.

In Arifureta the characters get many power ups, and their magic gets stronger, and they scale above other peoples magic, so going by that certainly their hax isn't baseline, it's much stronger, but if we are going by what i understand is the general thing, then i don't really think it has all those layers.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

At least 7-B (70.95 Megatons), possibly 7-A (192.75 Megatons) is fine with me.

Numbers would be better for hax scaling honestly, generally when talking about layers the idea is that if character a uses say mind hax and another, character b resist, character b has baseline resistance, if another character, character c comes and mind hax character b that's 1 layer, essentially you have to affect someone who resists.

In Arifureta the characters get many power ups, and their magic gets stronger, and they scale above other peoples magic, so going by that certainly their hax isn't baseline, it's much stronger, but if we are going by what i understand is the general thing, then i don't really think it has all those layers.

Ok, with that I thing everything is settled in principle, so tomorrow will try to begin to edit the profiles and apply everything from this and last crt.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Just noticed something but Alva should also get the abstract existence since he is basically like Ehit (though obviously weaker power wise).

 

[Noneless21]

What type of abstraction though? Conceptual?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

What type of abstraction though? Conceptual?

He is a being similar to apparitions like Ehit (which is why he can't be in the physical plane without a vessel the same way as Ehit).