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Archie Sonic Upgrades; 2-C base cast, Tons of new Abilities and more

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Today we are upgrading Archie once again, beginning with more simple stuff, let's goooo!!!

Espio gets:
Likely Intangiblity (His Espio Man form has access to Chroma Camo, ability that makes one intangible, he is shown behind Mega Man when he uses it and his game counterpart can use it too, so he should ideally possibly have it)

Rouge gets:
Likely Energy Manipulation & Status Effect Inducement (Through Black Wave, although it was not shown what it does, it's pretty safe to say it works more or less the same as its' game counterpart)

Amy gets:
Attack Reflection (Is able to reflect and redirect energy/non-tangable attacks using Piko Piko Hammer, even Silver's psychokinesis)

Eggman gets:
A.D.A.M and E.V.E as his optional equipment, as for a time both of them were serving him as his creations.

A.D.A.M gets:
Resistance to Hacking (In an attempt to hack into A.D.A.M or controlled by him technology, technology that attempted to hack them will get infected and controlled by him instead)

Sonic gets a layered Mind Hax resistance through being unaffected by the incredibly powerful hex of Finitevus, which was capable of controlling Knuckles with his own mind hax resistance through being above Power Rings.

Silver possibly gets a Chaos Emerald and it's abilities as optional equipment (Due to 06 happening in the Archie universe and Shadow sealing Mephiles in scepter of darkness, it is possible that Silver would get access to an Emerald himself, as in the game two are needed in order to time travel and get Shadow to the point of sealing Mephiles, additionally one of Silver's mentors - Edmund, is seen with an emerald in Silver's vision, indicating that he possibly used it at some point)

By proxy, users of two Chaos Emeralds, Super Forms and above get Time Travel due to Shadow traveling to the past and future with Silver and Sonic.

Shadow possibly gets resistance to Technology Manipulation due to likely meeting Mephiles, who is capable of such, but doesn't affect Shadow's shoes.

Nanites gain resistance to Electricity (Unphased by 50000 Volts)

Shadow gets Forcefield Creation (Generated a forcefield)

Ultimate Annihilator gets Higher-Dimensional Manipulation through being able to erase Verti-Cal's and Horizont-Al's bodies.

2-C base cast:
Entire base cast scales to an unknown amount of "many" Universes, with Sally being concerned that anyone on the planet could be caught into one, by Sonic outscaling Ultimate Annihilator:

Upon creating Giga-Bot Prime, Robotnik claimed it to be his most powerful weapon to date, stating Sonic to be the only thing capable of powering it, after which he would proceed to strap Sonic to it, confirming the need in the Hedgehog for it to work. In addition to that, Power Gem used by Metal Sonic is stated by Eggman to be his most powerful power source besides Chaos Emeralds, making both Emeralds and Gems superior to Ore that was powering the Ultimate Annihilator, with Robotnik also claimining the C.Es as the most potent form of energy in the universe, as well as the most powerful natural force in the universe, additionally dubbed by Knuckles as the Ultimate Power Source, with Knuckles himself having knowledge of the Echidna history, all of which are coming from Downunda continent, on which the Ore used to power the UA was found in by Robotnik. Robotnik likely had to resort to using Ore due to lacking Emeralds and almost all his Power Gems being stolen at the time. Much later on, Death Egg MK2 is introduced and is repeatedly stated to be Eggman's greatest weapon, while being empowered by one Chaos Emerald, with main cast scaling to one Emerald through Naugus.

Agree: Theuser, Shake, Henryzx, Monsters_fight, Pepto, Elixir (Hax), Maverick, Elizhaa

Disagree: Elixir (2-C)

Neutral:
 
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All of the hax additions seem fine.

I... suppose I'm fine with the Tier upgrade. But we need to identify what's quantifiable as "many". Iirc I saw definitions implying "few" is like 2-3, "some" is vaguely higher, etc.
 
All of the "possibly" abillities should be at least "likely" if not straight up. Espio's intangibillity in particular is very blatantly shown to be something he can do in the panel, and this is backed up by the canon games in the contnuity. Otherwise, everything else seems fine, but shouldn't there be a power growth of some kind for the base cast to be 2-C? Having them scale to the Ultimate Annihilator from the start seems wierd.
 
We don't really have Archie Sonic characters at different tiers, which is kinda weird imo. But I don't even know what the cut-off would be.
 
I agree with Hax upgrades.

Base abilities from 06 that not detailed by the encyclopedia should be a possibly rating, not an likely rating.

No to the 2-C base argument.

The argument hinges upscaling from Dr. Eggman, or rather Robo-Robotnik’s statement. However, Dr. Eggman never completed the Ultimate Annihilator. Robotnik Prime finally finished creating the U.A. moments before firing it and despite creating the Power Gems in Knuckles Chaotixs, specifically needed the Ore to complete it.

Given Eggman destroyed the alternate future using nukes, Eggman never completed or created the U.A. to upscale off of.
 
No to the 2-C base argument.

The argument hinges upscaling from Dr. Eggman, or rather Robo-Robotnik’s statement. However, Dr. Eggman never completed the Ultimate Annihilator. Robotnik Prime finally finished creating the U.A. moments before firing it and despite creating the Power Gems in Knuckles Chaotixs, specifically needed the Ore to complete it.

Given Eggman destroyed the alternate future using nukes, Eggman never completed or created the U.A. to upscale off of.
Part of it - yes, however Robotnik Prime still calls Chaos Emeralds as much more superior way of powering stuff than his ores, when already knowing about their existence from the past, Dr. Eggman knows about ores too, both from the TV program and delusions when he was crazy, he also knows about the UA in general, definitely knowing about it's power if he knows that it returned free will to the robians, all that plus the WOG still hypes up the Death Egg Mk2 as his most powerful and destructive weapon when using the main macguffin of the entire series. Power Gems were almost entirely stolen by that time, which is likely why he had to use the ore.

So yes, i'd say it still can be a thing
 
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Sure, but even so, Dr. Robotnik specifically needs the Ore over all other material, ei Power Gems, Chaos Emeralds, to make the Ultimate Annihilator operational. It’s not explained why but Planet Mobius could have some special properties that allow that.

And honestly, sometimes Eggman’s words can’t be accepted at face value. Especially when he is doing self evaluations. When it comes to Power Gems, Eggman called them the most powerful and had to be corrected by Orbot that the Chaos Emeralds are a thing. It shows Eggman doesn’t consider other aspects when hyping himself up.

When it came to Giga-Bot Prime, it was not called the most powerful, just latest and greatest weapon. That doesn’t necessarily translate to stats in his eyes, as the last “latest and greatest weapon” was his roboticizing touch.
 
Sure, but even so, Dr. Robotnik specifically needs the Ore over all other material, ei Power Gems, Chaos Emeralds, to make the Ultimate Annihilator operational. It’s not explained why but Planet Mobius could have some special properties that allow that.

And honestly, sometimes Eggman’s words can’t be accepted at face value. Especially when he is doing self evaluations. When it comes to Power Gems, Eggman called them the most powerful and had to be corrected by Orbot that the Chaos Emeralds are a thing.

When it came to Giga-Bot Prime, it was not called the most powerful, just latest and greatest weapon. That doesn’t necessarily translate to stats in his eyes, as the last “latest and greatest weapon” was his roboticizing touch.
In that case should Low 2-C, possibly/likely 2-C be fine?
 
In that case should Low 2-C, possibly/likely 2-C be fine?
I mean, probably not unless there are more supporting 2-C arguments.

Archie’s Low 2-C arguments off the top of my head are:
  • Pre-Great Harmony Chaos Emerald scaling
    • Infinite Energy for a single emerald
    • Universe + creation
    • Universe + durability
    • Base Knuckles the Living Chaos Emerald reshaping a single reality twice
    • Base Knuckles the Living Chaos Emerald breaking a Chaos Emerald with the only durability feat being Uni+
  • Naugus expanding the Zone of Silence beyond finite proportions with base magic
  • Dr. Robotnik and Sonic casually tanking the destruction of the Flickie Zone.
  • Mammoth Mogul Chaos Emerald Mobian Evolution scaling
The 2-C in comparison has scaling interpretation that can be argued against.
 
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I mean, probably not unless there are more supporting 2-C arguments.

Archie’s Low 2-C arguments off the top of my head are:
  • Pre-Great Harmony Chaos Emerald scaling
    • Infinite Energy for a single emerald
    • Universe + creation
    • Universe + durability
    • Base Knuckles the Living Chaos Emerald reshaping a single reality twice
    • Base Knuckles the Living Chaos Emerald breaking a Chaos Emerald with the only durability feat being Uni+
  • Naugus expanding the Zone of Silence beyond finite proportions with base magic
  • Dr. Robotnik and Sonic casually tanking the destruction of the Flickie Zone.
  • Mammoth Mogul Chaos Emerald Mobian Evolution scaling
The 2-C in comparison has scaling interpretation that can be argued against.
There are some in fact, from the Emeralds
 
Well, never mind. At most, those scans with the half emeralds and Wily’s universe would cover 2 universes.

but since we are dealing with arguments of infinite size universes with emeralds of infinite energy with an infinite multiverse with the Ultimate Annihilator stated to have touched every universe in said infinite multiverse- gasp

Uni+ (ei, an infinite size universe) would cover 2 infinite universes for the emerald’s capabilities.
 
Well, never mind. At most, those scans with the half emeralds and Wily’s universe would cover 2 universes.

but since we are dealing with arguments of infinite size universes with emeralds of infinite energy with an infinite multiverse with the Ultimate Annihilator stated to have touch every universe in said infinite multiverse- gasp

Uni+ (ei, an infinite size universe) would cover 2 infinite universes for the emerald’s capabilities.
So your verdict is?
 
Low 2-C for the verse. It’s consistent with non-emerald feats, like Sonic and Robotnik tanking the Flickie Zone destruction or Sonic reversing the Quantum dial from ripping the space-time continuum to create a black hole.

Heck, there is an argument Archie’s super forms don’t increase physical ap all that much and Sonic and Knuckles’ base ap (x 1000) destroyed the unstable zone back in Super Sonic vs Hyper Knuckles.
 
Individual Emeralds being referred to as the greatest source of power in the universe would also support them upscaling from the Ultimate Annihilator's power source
 
Personally, I think the Death Egg MK II should at least upscale from the UA.
I agree but mostly for the Post-Great Harmony scaling. Death Egg MK II should massively upscale beyond the capabilities of the U.A.

Still disagree with a single Chaos Emerald upscaling from the U.A. “The ultimate source of power” could be in reference to their infinite, inexhaustible energy source and/or when at least 7/11 Pre-Great Harmony Emeralds are gather, they can achieve energy reaching higher dimensional.

If we take the “a single Chaos Emerald > all other energy sources” without thinking about how it balances with the story, an Emerald would be 2-A to upscale from the energy of the Zone Cop’s computer tracking every character in the 2-A multiverse.
 
If we take the “a single Chaos Emerald > all other energy sources” without thinking about how it balances with the story, an Emerald would be 2-A to upscale from the energy of the Zone Cop’s computer tracking every character in the 2-A multiverse.
Not really, because this is not a 2-A feat
 
Hm. Maybe I was thinking that cause the scans of the Perpendicular Zone, No Zone, implies it’s the size of the multiverse itself.

If each character’s variation is tracked throughout the infinite multiverse, and each universe is infinite in size, implying an infinite amount of individuals, would the energy tracking them all really be high 3-A?
 
Hm. Maybe I was thinking that cause the scans of the Perpendicular Zone, No Zone, implies it’s the size of the multiverse itself.

If each character’s variation is tracked throughout the infinite multiverse, and each universe is infinite in size, implying an infinite amount of individuals, would the energy tracking them all really be high 3-A?
Yep. You need a temporal or higher dimension to go to tier 2.
 
Isn't this a speed feat and not AP? I thought that was already accepted as infinite speed justification.
Alternate future timelines not detailed in the speed section. Besides, it’s a speed feat for the Zone Cops to observe every monitor, not for the energy behind the monitors themselves.
 
I don't know if having energy to have monitors that can see the future is tier 2. I feel like that's hax+high 3-A, but I am not sure. More opinions would be appreciated.
 
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