Arceuid Remake page

[BasedNecoScaler69]

There hasn't been a page for remake tsuki for about a year and a half, so i thought

( im not sure if i need CRT's for new pages but made one to be on the safe side.)

BasedNecoScaler69/sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Do I need a CRT to apply a completely new page? im still somewhat new to the wiki

 

[Violatas]

Do I need a CRT to apply a completely new page? im still somewhat new to the wiki

I'd assume so. Also

Island level (Stated to be able to win against a Servant

This is kinda why I was thinking it'd have been best to wait before making Remake profiles, because I'm not sure if we should apply this to Remake Arc since that was referring to her OG self. There's been no discussion on how any of this would be handled. Personally I wouldn't unless there was evidence support it should apply, but that's discussion for another day

 

[Violatas]

Oh forgot to say, but nice Beatrice avi. Umineko more like UmiPEAKo

 

[Paul_Frank]

There is so much wrong with this sandbox even besides the formatting issues

Firstly, scrap all the Neco Arc stuff there, I've said it like 4 times already, they are not the same being

We have an entire species for Neco Arc, which isn't true ancestor, we have an entire lore for her and her species, with the great cat village, we know they're there because of Zelretch, Aoko says as much, and that's why they live in the Wizards Box (Ahnenerbe), we literally see Arc and Neco Arc on screen at the same time, with Arc running her over in Carnival Phantasm for instance, hell, Nasu refers to them as seperate things himself, such as whenever he compares the power of the two of them, etc. A single Teach Me Ciel Sensei where she responds as if she were Arc does not mean she's actually Arc with all of this in mind.

Secondly, that statement used to justify her last rating is not for that form. The Ciel route had Luminous Body, not Archetype Earth. Further, that statement is probably not the best to use in general, for a few reasons. Firstly, since it's talking about Luminous Body Arc and not AE, it's literally impossible for it to be true, even besides that, we know it's not true because Altrouge is equal to Arc. That statement is also contradicted by another, more consistent one Nasu later gave, that she's specifically the strongest in Tsukihime and Mahoutsukai, which leaves room for his other statements like ORT being "the superboss stronger than the last boss" to still be true, among whatever other statements there are

I want to portray this sequence (Arc VS Roa), up until the last moment, to the best of my ability. I’ll really drive home her being the strongest being in the setting of Tsukihime and Mahoutsukai no Yoru.

You're also missing things, among other things, her dimensional travel/teleportation from her independent action description. You also somehow are missing her main ability, the whole "is always above her opponents stats", or her mystic eyes increasing her AP too. It's also somehow entirely missing Luminous Body as a whole, which is uhh, a pretty major part of True Ancestors, since it gives a ton of powers, low godly to all of them, etc

Vlov's feat is also way above city level, so that rating is incorrect

 

[Shmooply]

Frank addressed basically all of my concerns. Disagree with the OP.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

There is so much wrong with this sandbox even besides the formatting issues

Firstly, scrap all the Neco Arc stuff there, I've said it like 4 times already, they are not the same being

We have an entire species for Neco Arc, which isn't true ancestor, we have an entire lore for her and her species, with the great cat village, we know they're there because of Zelretch, Aoko says as much, and that's why they live in the Wizards Box (Ahnenerbe), we literally see Arc and Neco Arc on screen at the same time, with Arc running her over in Carnival Phantasm for instance, hell, Nasu refers to them as seperate things himself, such as whenever he compares the power of the two of them, etc. A single Teach Me Ciel Sensei where she responds as if she were Arc does not mean she's actually Arc with all of this in mind.

Secondly, that statement used to justify her last rating is not for that form. The Ciel route had Luminous Body, not Archetype Earth. Further, that statement is probably not the best to use in general, for a few reasons. Firstly, since it's talking about Luminous Body Arc and not AE, it's literally impossible for it to be true, even besides that, we know it's not true because Altrouge is equal to Arc. That statement is also contradicted by another, more consistent one Nasu later gave, that she's specifically the strongest in Tsukihime and Mahoutsukai, which leaves room for his other statements like ORT being "the superboss stronger than the last boss" to still be true, among whatever other statements there are




You're also missing things, among other things, her dimensional travel/teleportation from her independent action description. You also somehow are missing her main ability, the whole "is always above her opponents stats", or her mystic eyes increasing her AP too. It's also somehow entirely missing Luminous Body as a whole, which is uhh, a pretty major part of True Ancestors, since it gives a ton of powers, low godly to all of them, etc

Vlov's feat is also way above city level, so that rating is incorrect

1. It’s not just that single ciel-sensel scene, it’s multiple

2. Luminous body’s power level isn’t exactly known, and archetype:Earth is confirmed to exist in the remake timeline with the fgo collab.
Also where would I put it? a separate f/go key? Also servant arc is Archetype, just stage 2 has the personality of normal arc
It’s stated nowhere that Altrouge is equal to Arc, just that they’re the two most suitable to succeed Crimson Moon. Also when was that statement made? The one I linked is an interview made shortly after the tsukihime remake.
Also ORT exists in Tsukihime, which would put Arc above it as well
3. I’m pretty sure those abilities don’t exist in Remake yet.
4. I wanted to be on the safe end and use his highest destruction feat, instead of using a statement that he could fell an entire nation ( an army, or the landmass?)

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Disagree fra

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

That statement is also contradicted by another, more consistent one Nasu later gave, that she's specifically the strongest in Tsukihime and Mahoutsukai, which leaves room for his other statements like ORT being "the superboss stronger than the last boss" to still be true, among whatever other statements there are

Ah Tsuushin R. Those were nasu’s notes from over 10 years ago, so it’s less recent. Also nasu has made a variety of statements saying arceuid is either the strongest, or at least in the top 3

 

[Violatas]

It’s stated nowhere that Altrouge is equal to Arc, just that they’re the two most suitable to succeed Crimson Moon. Also when was that statement made? The one I linked is an interview made shortly after the tsukihime remake.

"[v] Melty Blood Act Cadenza PS2 Manual - Dictionary: Crimson Moon [Term], p.060
English
Japanese
Crimson Moon [Term]
Another name for the organism that was used as the template for the True Ancestors. Also known as the Crimson Moon Brunestud.
After he vanished, individuals close to him in power started being honored with the title of Brunestud.
However, in the long history of the True Ancestors, only two have ever received the name."

Altrouge, like Arc, was one of the only 2 True Ancestors considered close to Crimson Moon in power. Was explained in Kagetsu Tohya. Altrouge is mentally unstable though, which is why Arc was chosen as the vessel for Crimson Moon.
But yeah in lore, Arcueid and Altrouge are close in power

 

[Paul_Frank]

1. It’s not just that single ciel-sensel scene, it’s multiple

That still doesn't surpass the sheer amount of literally everything else, even if it was every Teach Me Ciel Sensei, considering again, she has an entire lore already, which explicitly applies since Remake Neco Arc is the same one from back in the OG Tsuki days in her own words, and in mats

2. Luminous body’s power level isn’t exactly known, and archetype:Earth is confirmed to exist in the remake timeline with the fgo collab.

That doesnt matter? I know AE exists, that doesnt mean the statement isn't about Luminous Body. What I said is the statement was about Luminious Body and not AE, which is also why that statement is inconsistent and likely better to not use. Luminous Arc is also just tier 1 anyway, her power is in fact, known

Also where would I put it? a separate f/go key?

No? Luminous body isn't even in FGO, you'd just give it a key called Luminous Body, and note that her base form becomes that, and then she can regen from it and go back to base

Also servant arc is Archetype, just stage 2 has the personality of normal arc

Okay? She's much weaker than AE but I don't see your point here

It’s stated nowhere that Altrouge is equal to Arc, just that they’re the two most suitable to succeed Crimson Moon.

It's in her FGO profile, it's said that the reason she can not be called the Ultimate "One" is because Altrouge is around.

In the world of Tsukihime, the strongest existence of a celestial body is known as the Ultimate One (Original One), a position that the awakened Arcueid is applicable for. However, until things are settled with Altrouge, a being 'that forms the celestial' on the same scale, she cannot be referred to as the 'ONE'.

This also further supports what I'm saying about that Lumi Arc 4gamers statement being bad, only AE (Awakened Arc) is even applicable for being the strongest existence, this means before that, there are people stronger than her, in other words, she can't be the strongest entity in Type-Moon in general at the end of the Ciel route.

Also when was that statement made? The one I linked is an interview made shortly after the tsukihime remake.
Also ORT exists in Tsukihime, which would put Arc above it as well

It'd put her above a sleeping ORT sure, and even that's just arguable because he "exists" he never appears.

3. I’m pretty sure those abilities don’t exist in Remake yet.

They do, they're on her servant profile even

4. I wanted to be on the safe end and use his highest destruction feat, instead of using a statement that he could fell an entire nation ( an army, or the landmass?)

I'm talking about with his city freezing feat, the actual feat is way higher than city level when calc'd

Ah Tsuushin R. Those were nasu’s notes from over 10 years ago, so it’s less recent. Also nasu has made a variety of statements saying arceuid is either the strongest, or at least in the top 3

Nasu himself says towards the end of that however, that in 2020, when he worked on Tsuki R, he took those notes and applied it to write the script of Tsuki R. So the stuff written in the notes that were released later on, are still accurate in that case

Also yes, Nasu does have a bunch of statements putting her in the top 3 a while ago, at best this would apply to AE, we know it can't be applied to normal Arc because we know people she would lose to.

For instance Roa right after being turned is able to beat Altrouge, probably with her dog at that point, which is Type Moon level, and Altrouge herself is explicitly equal to Arc etc. There's quite literally no way to scale any non AE Arc that high, so that's clearly who those statements would apply to

In this case however, AE isn't in Ciel's route, Luminous Body is, which is why I'm saying it's quite literally impossible for it to be true, and the one saying she's the strongest in Mahoyo and Tsukihime is much more accurate. Like I said above when I posted the FGO profile excerpt, AE is the one that is the strongest existence of this celestial body along with Altrouge (the of this celestial body is also important because it excludes aliens, like ORT, since he's of a different celestial body). If AE is when she gets to be the strongest being of the celestial body, then the 4gamer interview which is talking about Lumi Arc can't be correct.

A more accurate justification for Archetype Earth's rating then, would be noting that when Awakened, she and her sister are the strongest of this celestial body, both being on the same scale so neither can be called the "one", and then note that this puts her above whatever other tier 1 characters are from Earth (non Types)

I believe we were also going to wait till Far Side was out to make pages since it's easier to just have everything available when making them rather than having to update it as it goes

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

That still doesn't surpass the sheer amount of literally everything else, even if it was every Teach Me Ciel Sensei, considering again, she has an entire lore already, which explicitly applies since Remake Neco Arc is the same one from back in the OG Tsuki days in her own words, and in mats

That doesnt matter? I know AE exists, that doesnt mean the statement isn't about Luminous Body. What I said is the statement was about Luminious Body and not AE, which is also why that statement is inconsistent and likely better to not use. Luminous Arc is also just tier 1 anyway, her power is in fact, known

No? Luminous body isn't even in FGO, you'd just give it a key called Luminous Body, and note that her base form becomes that, and then she can regen from it and go back to base

Okay? She's much weaker than AE but I don't see your point here

It's in her FGO profile, it's said that the reason she can not be called the Ultimate "One" is because Altrouge is around.


This also further supports what I'm saying about that Lumi Arc 4gamers statement being bad, only AE (Awakened Arc) is even applicable for being the strongest existence, this means before that, there are people stronger than her, in other words, she can't be the strongest entity in Type-Moon in general at the end of the Ciel route.

It'd put her above a sleeping ORT sure, and even that's just arguable because he "exists" he never appears.

They do, they're on her servant profile even

I'm talking about with his city freezing feat, the actual feat is way higher than city level when calc'd


Nasu himself says towards the end of that however, that in 2020, when he worked on Tsuki R, he took those notes and applied it to write the script of Tsuki R. So the stuff written in the notes that were released later on, are still accurate in that case

Also yes, Nasu does have a bunch of statements putting her in the top 3 a while ago, at best this would apply to AE, we know it can't be applied to normal Arc because we know people she would lose to.

For instance Roa right after being turned is able to beat Altrouge, probably with her dog at that point, which is Type Moon level, and Altrouge herself is explicitly equal to Arc etc. There's quite literally no way to scale any non AE Arc that high, so that's clearly who those statements would apply to

In this case however, AE isn't in Ciel's route, Luminous Body is, which is why I'm saying it's quite literally impossible for it to be true, and the one saying she's the strongest in Mahoyo and Tsukihime is much more accurate. Like I said above when I posted the FGO profile excerpt, AE is the one that is the strongest existence of this celestial body along with Altrouge (the of this celestial body is also important because it excludes aliens, like ORT, since he's of a different celestial body). If AE is when she gets to be the strongest being of the celestial body, then the 4gamer interview which is talking about Lumi Arc can't be correct.

A more accurate justification for Archetype Earth's rating then, would be noting that when Awakened, she and her sister are the strongest of this celestial body, both being on the same scale so neither can be called the "one", and then note that this puts her above whatever other tier 1 characters are from Earth (non Types)

I believe we were also going to wait till Far Side was out to make pages since it's easier to just have everything available when making them rather than having to update it as it goes

Yea waiting for Far Side makes more sense in hindsight
Also putting arc above all earthborn characters would make her stronger than ryougi, no?

 

[Paul_Frank]

Yea waiting for Far Side makes more sense in hindsight
Also putting arc above all earthborn characters would make her stronger than ryougi, no?

Than 3 non void ones yeah, the root itself wouldn't really count as "of earth" even if Shiki is born on Earth

 

[Avengershows]

That doesnt matter? I know AE exists, that doesnt mean the statement isn't about Luminous Body. What I said is the statement was about Luminious Body and not AE, which is also why that statement is inconsistent and likely better to not use. Luminous Arc is also just tier 1 anyway, her power is in fact, known

Isn't it kinda really easy to scale Luminous Body Arc because she like, literally starts sucking up all the textures on the Earth and can store them in herself

 

[Violatas]

Isn't it kinda really easy to scale Luminous Body Arc because she like, literally starts sucking up all the textures on the Earth and can store them in herself

That's why she's tier 1 yes.

Anyways @Marshadow29 since you agree it'd have been best to wait on Far Side, I think this should be closed