Applying DBZ Kai to DBS Anime

[StarShooter80]

This thread is relatively straight forward, we'll be applying the scaling changes the Dragon Ball anime has in contrast to the manga. The most notable scaling changes being:

• King Vegeta blowing up a string of planets in a flashback.
• Frieza destroying innumerable stars.
• Kid Buu destroying a galaxy overtime (Not enough for a higher speed rating than what he has currently, this is just to make it so then he and Goku have MFTL+ flight speed at this point).
• Buuhan's outside space feat.

And here's the blog:

Dragon Ball Anime: Statistical Ratings

vsbattles.fandom.com

If you notice any Toei feats that aren't here, then they were either removed in Kai or were toei movie additions (examples being Broly destroying south galaxy, or Vegeta blowing up Arlia). Most of these are uncontroversial, the only one that really needs further clearance is Buuhan's feat.

While this feat is already accepted for Toei, the main issue that was brought up in previous discussions was that it becomes an outlier because of the bog feat/feats, but that's flawed. Super Buu was struggling far more when performing his feat, bleeding from his hands and loosing his mind in a blind rage, he even had Vegito congratulate him for showcasing such power. Buu is not able to replicate this power again normally, it's his absolute upmost. Meanwhile a suppressed Beerus and Goku in bog were only destroying the universe as a result of the clashes in their fight, and were performing their feats much more casually in comparison. The bog feats are not at all an anti-feat towards Super Buu's outside space feat, if anything it showcases a linear progression of power.

Anyways most of these multipliers are already accepted, the only one that was added was Super Saiyan Rosé being as powerful as Super Saiyan Blue, and Broly's Wrath State x10 multiplier. The different Broly statistic ratings also warrant him having multiple keys for each fight/part of fights. All of this is already accepted inverse scaling between characters. The last and most obvious thing to note is to begin replacing manga scans with anime ones for the profiles, and by extension the references for said scans, that would be all.

Major thanks to @CryoTheMayo for assisting in the blog with the math for some segments.

Only counting mod votes:

Agree:

Neutral:

Disagree:

 

[McFriesGuy075]

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It looks very good to me these things.

In the scene where Kid Buu is destroying the galaxy, the Goblo brand (a Brazilian TV channel)

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I agree.

 

[TiltedFN]

How do the humans benefit from this? Tien, krillin, maybe even yamchd some others probably. Is that accounted for?

 

[StarShooter80]

How do the humans benefit from this? Tien, krillin, maybe even yamchd some others probably. Is that accounted for?

Only counting for humans that have DBS anime profiles or keys:

• Krillin stays at his current ratings (he only just gets even bigger values)
• Roshi becomes High 5-A in Res F, then 4-A by the ToP
• Tien becomes 4-A in his ToP key

That's really it

 

[Fezzih_007]

And here's the blog:

whas't up with the random ass quote and image on the blog?

 

[StarShooter80]

whas't up with the random ass quote and image on the blog?

aura farming

 

[Nierre]

in theory this looks fine but hopefully tomorrow I can look thru it more thoroughly

 

[DaimDB]

Follow

 

[MeiouHades]

Looks good but I got a couple of problems though they're likely just mistakes. For one, I don't see the King Vegeta calc applied in the blog, since it takes Oozaru Vegeta to be Low 4-C even though base Vegeta should be above King Vegeta's Low 4-C feat anyway and Goku should downscale from that. Secondly, why's first form Frieza 45 Ronnatons when the DBS Broly calc puts him at 14 Quettatons?

Also agree with the 2-C stuff, there's no reason for it to be an outlier.

 

[StarShooter80]

Looks good but I got a couple of problems though they're likely just mistakes. For one, I don't see the King Vegeta calc applied in the blog, since it takes Oozaru Vegeta to be Low 4-C even though base Vegeta should be above King Vegeta's Low 4-C feat anyway and Goku should downscale from that

King Vegeta's feat is only High 5-A not Low 4-C, and it's here in blog

Secondly, why's first form Frieza 45 Ronnatons when the DBS Broly calc puts him at 14 Quettatons?

An error on my behalf it's meant to be 45 Quettatons not Ronnatons, that's been quickly fixed

 

[MeiouHades]

King Vegeta's feat is only High 5-A not Low 4-C, and it's here in blog

Oh alright. Though we probably need a recalc for this later using the inverse square law but yeah it's fine for now

An error on my behalf it's meant to be 45 Quettatons not Ronnatons, that's been quickly fixed

Via upscaling I presume?

 

[StarShooter80]

Via upscaling I presume?

Typo, I accidentally used Ronnatons for Oozaru Nappa lastly in the Saiyan Saga, and from that point I was using that unit instead for most of the Frieza Saga

 

[Omegas03]

Why doesn't Buuhan just scale from 3 universes? If the vice shouting is HIS power shouldn't his strength scale already to it? Why 1/50th?

 

[StarShooter80]

Why doesn't Buuhan just scale from 3 universes? If the vice shouting is HIS power shouldn't his strength scale already to it? Why 1/50th?

It's really clear his outside space scales above any of his regular attacks, it forced a suppressed SSJ Vegito to power up even further, who previous was enough to thrash Buu embarrassingly. As the feat was performed Vegito actually compliments Buu on the power he's outputting, when outside of that he just kept insulting Buu for how weak he was.

 

[TiltedFN]

It's really clear his outside space scales above any of his regular attacks, it forced a suppressed SSJ Vegito to power up even further, who previous was enough to thrash Buu embarrassingly. As the feat was performed Vegito actually compliments Buu on the power he's outputting, when outside of that he just kept insulting Buu for how weak he was.

Bruh, vegito told buu to use the power he displayed on himself. It clearly scales to his regular attacks.

 

[StarShooter80]

Bruh, vegito told buu to use the power he displayed on himself. It clearly scales to his regular attacks.

That doesn't really imply Buu was actually able to afterwards

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

The part about buuhan and base vegito being equal, is that correct? I remember base vegito being matched by buuhan at the start when he was still figuring out his body, towards the end shin noted that buuhan could barely mount an offence, and vegito easily caught and tossed an energy ball buuhan made with both his energy and some from the planets he's destroyed or so (unless this part was toei alone) base vegito should be stated t be above buuhan value imo

Bruh, vegito told buu to use the power he displayed on himself. It clearly scales to his regular attacks.

Buuhan never once so much as made vegito blink, let alone forced him to actually put effort aside from his vice shout, it's clearly not something he could do normally at that point even if he could learn to

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

The blog seems good, but I must point out two observations:

The first one is that SSJ2 Goku is the one that fought against a suppressed Kid Buu (who was still stated to be the strongest Buu), while SSJ3 Goku fought a full power Kid Buu, as is being showcased in the scan, so both SSJ3 Goku (Kid Buu fight) and Full Power Kid Buu should be 4x 3 Universes

The second one is that according to Goku himself after being humiliated by Beerus, said not even SSJ3 Vegito (as he stated that not even the fusion would be enough against him, so he must be counting on SSJ3 on top of that too) would stand a chance against a suppressed Beerus, while SSG Goku was confident in fighting that Beerus and fought him relatively well afterwards

 

[StarShooter80]

The first one is that SSJ2 Goku is the one that fought against a suppressed Kid Buu (who was still stated to be the strongest Buu), while SSJ3 Goku fought a full power Kid Buu, as is being showcased in the scan, so both SSJ3 Goku (Kid Buu fight) and Full Power Kid Buu should be 4x 3 Universes

I could see this working

The second one is that according to Goku himself after being humiliated by Beerus, said not even SSJ3 Vegito (as he stated that not even the fusion would be enough against him, so he must be counting on SSJ3 on top of that too) would stand a chance against a suppressed Beerus, while SSG Goku was confident in fighting that Beerus and fought him relatively well afterwards

That's already accounted for in the SSG multiplier

 

[TiltedFN]

That doesn't really imply Buu was actually able to afterwards

Thats something you need to prove lmao. Buu listened to him after he calmed down and put that power into a very powerful attack. Vegito could easily just use more power.

 

[MeiouHades]

That doesn't really imply Buu was actually able to afterwards

That's something you'd have to debate like Tilted said. The feat is otherwise exactly the same as the Toei version, no need to change it here if it wasn't changed there either.

 

[Omegas03]

Another nitpick I have is Superhero arc Base Gohan being 51.2 quadrillion opposed to post ToP Base Goku's 512 quadrillion.

If Base for Base around the ToP Goku and Gohan were relative while SSB and Ultimate Gohan were also around the same strength shouldn't this mean Superhero arc Base Gohan would be ~ to post ToP Base Goku too? Since Superhero Ultimate scales to around or a bit above post ToP SSB.

Not just this, but scaling Ultimate Gohan to Evolved Blue tier is weird, since they never accounted for these forms in the movies and the maximum power Piccolo saw or sensed from them was regular SSB/Ikari Broly who was evenly matched with it.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I’d suggest removing the likely from the ratings. The multipliers are accepted, so there’s no point of adding it on there.

 

[Omegas03]

this probably goes in hand with Super scaling and may affect the ratings here a bit so I'll just link it to see if it gets a bit more attention

Vegito and Zamasu upgrade thread (closed without any staff input, so I had to open a new one).

 

[Omegas03]

Another nitpick from me is this

• After replicating Goku's style, Goku Black tanks attacks from Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta, then overpowers him in base: 6.4 Billion x 3 Universes (2-C) & likely 1.892 Nonillion c (Massively FTL+)
  • Super Saiyan Rosé is Goku Black's version of Super Saiyan, but its power is comparable to that of Super Saiyan Blue: 51.2 Quadrillion x 3 Universes (2-C) & likely 15.136 Undecillion c (Massively FTL+)

Shouldn't the regular SSJ multiplier be applied at this point? As Rose is the equivalent for SSJ1 in the anime.

Wouldn't the scan mean SS Rose in Black matches Blue, not the form itself? I think it makes more sense this way.

Black overpowering Blue Vegeta, becoming Rose and stabbing him just for Goku and Trunks to be able to somewhat keep up with him just after that makes little sense if Black became millions of times stronger than all of them.

50x should make more sense, and its in line with Black surpassing everyone else in arcs prior (10x Goku and Hit from U6).

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

That doesn't really imply Buu was actually able to afterwards

Man, didn't we already stablished and accepted in this forum that Buuhan scales to 2-C physically?. We already went through this. We are going backwards

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Another nitpick from me is this




Shouldn't the regular SSJ multiplier be applied at this point? As Rose is the equivalent for SSJ1 in the anime.

Wouldn't the scan mean SS Rose in Black matches Blue, not the form itself? I think it makes more sense this way.

Black overpowering Blue Vegeta, becoming Rose and stabbing him just for Goku and Trunks to be able to somewhat keep up with him just after that makes little sense if Black became millions of times stronger than all of them.

50x should make more sense, and its in line with Black surpassing everyone else in arcs prior (10x Goku and Hit from U6).

Agreed.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Buuhan never once so much as made vegito blink, let alone forced him to actually put effort aside from his vice shout, it's clearly not something he could do normally at that point even if he could learn to

No, we already accept the feat scales to his overall stats in this wiki. You probably just missed the thread

 

[StarShooter80]

Thats something you need to prove lmao. Buu listened to him after he calmed down and put that power into a very powerful attack. Vegito could easily just use more power.

That actually got cut

I wasn’t trying to duck your initial argument or anything, I just couldn’t see how just the Vegito statement would’ve been enough

Another nitpick I have is Superhero arc Base Gohan being 51.2 quadrillion opposed to post ToP Base Goku's 512 quadrillion.

If Base for Base around the ToP Goku and Gohan were relative while SSB and Ultimate Gohan were also around the same strength shouldn't this mean Superhero arc Base Gohan would be ~ to post ToP Base Goku too? Since Superhero Ultimate scales to around or a bit above post ToP SSB.

I probably missed that I’ll change it later

Not just this, but scaling Ultimate Gohan to Evolved Blue tier is weird, since they never accounted for these forms in the movies and the maximum power Piccolo saw or sensed from them was regular SSB/Ikari Broly who was evenly matched with it.

Piccolo was witnessed Goku and Vegeta’s strength in the ToP in their SSBKKx20/SSBE tiers (Not saying he sensed it but he should be able to determine their strength anyway). Some Super Hero promotional material also states the Gammas are at the same level as current Goku and Vegeta

Wouldn't the scan mean SS Rose in Black matches Blue, not the form itself? I think it makes more sense this way.

The statement only refers to the forms, it doesn’t mention any of the users in the strength comparison

Man, didn't we already stablished and accepted in this forum that Buuhan scales to 2-C physically?. We already went through this. We are going backwards

I’m not saying this is an environmental destruction feat?

 

[TiltedFN]

That actually got cut

 

[StarShooter80]

Not that statement, I was referring to Buu “putting that power into a very powerful attack”

 

[TiltedFN]

Not that statement, I was referring to Buu “putting that power into a very powerful attack”

So just because kai cut the attack? That is not a valid reason. Vegito was simply stronger lmfao. That doesn't warrant cutting the scaling. It needs to stay.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

So just because kai cut the attack? That is not a valid reason. Vegito was simply stronger lmfao. That doesn't warrant cutting the scaling. It needs to stay.

This ^

 

[StarShooter80]

So just because kai cut the attack? That is not a valid reason. Vegito was simply stronger lmfao. That doesn't warrant cutting the scaling. It needs to stay.

What? Part of your argument was based off of the attack following the Vegito statement. When I told you that got cut, you then accused me of saying the Vegito statement never happening in Kai. And now you’re saying this??

I’ve never said Vegito wasn’t superior to outside space

 

[TiltedFN]

What? Part of your argument was based off of the attack following the Vegito statement. When I told you that got cut, you then accused me of saying the Vegito statement never happening in Kai. And now you’re saying this??

I’ve never said Vegito wasn’t superior to outside space

I also told you that vegito can easily just use more power, which he absolutely can. Even after the attack was thrown in the original, he proceeds to absolutely negative diff buu either way. This is not a defeater to my argument. Buu was absolutely using the power he displayed against vegito. But the point, is that it doesn't matter anyway. Vegito is too strong regardless. Also, why wouldn't the vegito statement be enough? This is basic dragon ball, its literally just buu's ki.

 

[StarShooter80]

This is not a defeater to my argument. Buu was absolutely using the power he displayed against vegito. But the point, is that it doesn't matter anyway. Vegito is too strong regardless. Also, why wouldn't the vegito statement be enough? This is basic dragon ball, its literally just buu's ki.

I don’t really see how the Vegito statement alone is enough to support that, in Kai it’s never followed up in anyway, Buu just relaxes himself, charges at Vegito and then gets thrashed

But the point, is that it doesn't matter anyway. Vegito is too strong regardless.

Again I’m not saying Vegito scales under outside space? Unless you mean something else regarding his strength

 

[TiltedFN]

I don’t really see how the Vegito statement alone is enough to support that, in Kai it’s never followed up in anyway, Buu just relaxes himself, charges at Vegito and then gets thrashed

The question should be why it wouldn't be enough? And like I said lmao, only the punches are missing, buu still gets neg diffed in either version. Erasing the scaling is stupid.

Again I’m not saying Vegito scales under outside space? Unless you mean something else regarding his strength

You're using the cut punch scene to say buu doesn't scale to outside space with regular attacks which is wrong. Its literally his ki.

 

[StarShooter80]

The question should be why it wouldn't be enough? And like I said lmao, only the punches are missing, buu still gets neg diffed in either version. Erasing the scaling is stupid.

Buu’s strike could actually land on Vegito and actually press him a bit, he gets neg diffed yes it does follow up the statement in Kai. The statement in Kai is just not properly followed up

You're using the cut punch scene to say buu doesn't scale to outside space with regular attacks which is wrong. Its literally his ki.

I’m not sure how that correlates with Vegito being stronger regardless, but I’m not denying that fact that it’s a ki attack, it’s just an amplification