Apotheosis: Daozis, True Gods and Saints are 1-A!? (new 1-A characters?)

[BoundlessDumbness]

Now, I want to present to you how Apotheosis is massively overpowered and broken series, as even a True Gods and Saints, can be 1-A's (and maybe it's time to rethink your 1-A qualifications)

Cosmology

The storyline currently takes place inside the saint's universe named "Universe of Great Expanse", which owned by Luo Xiao. This isn't your typical universe, as the universe was divided into 2 hierarchal realms: The Lower and Upper Realm, and the
transcendental realm, the God's Domain.

btw, this is the overview of the entire universe: (art's not mine, credits to Zero/Mass. simplified for easier understanding.)

• Lower Realm: At the very bottom of the Universe of Great Expanse is the Great Thousand World, or Lower Realm. This is a massive plane of one million, thirty-three, star sized planets each, all laid out on a grid. The worlds were originally divided by a Pseudo-Wall of Sighs until the Ancient Witch Clan destroyed the grid, united all the worlds.

• Upper Realm: The Upper Realm is often referred to as the Great Realm. It's important to note the this isn't just one, gigantic planet but 100,000 separate planets all ruled by the Clear Blue Sky Divine Path (will of the universe).

These Great Worlds are connected through Space Channels that allows normal beings to transverse the vast distances between worlds.

Do note that each Great World is SO MASSIVE than each Great Thousand World. A city (referred as "Holy City") of a certain Great World, is 1/10th the size of the Lower Realm.

• God's Domain: The God Domain(Endless God Territory) is a great ship and the internal world built by the head of the nine tribes of the Nine Li (Saint) race, Chi You, to save his people from the 100000 Xuan Yuan Protectors (Yellow Emperor Guards). He sent the ship off from the Source World(Mother World) as a final effort to save his clan and it is sailing through the sea of primordial chaos.

In terms of size, the ship is hundreds of thousands larger than the universe of any (Saint) Holy Being.

Feats

Now, what does it mean to become 1-A? These are the following criteria (based on the Tiering System standards):

1-A Tier second paragraph:

"However, do note that a character can qualify for this rating even if their verse does not have an infinitely-layered or equivalent cosmology, as long as it is either stated, shown or left very obvious that the character in question already bypasses the very nature of such structures altogether, in a way that simply "stacking" more of them logically would not allow one to reach their level of power / size."

And this paragraph plays a major role why True God and Saints are 1-A, a transcendental beings:

(Note: Heavenly=Divine, Path=Dao. The translations might interchange, but the words are literally the same meaning)

1. Divine Spark Plate + Divine Spark Condensation = Transcendental Beings

This might be overwanking, but on deeper analysis, possessing a Divine Spark Plate+Divine Spark makes you a transcendental being. Not only to any Saint's Universes, but also to the Heavenly Dao/Way, and can freely enter the God's Domain. Not only just Daozis who condensed a divine spark+possess a divine spark plate, but also the True Gods, and Saints.

So, why having these qualifications are 1-A feats? For example, what if the Universe of Great Expanse possess not just 2 hierarchal realms (Lower and Upper Realm), but infinite-layered realms? Even if you ascend to higher realms in these so-called infinite-layered realms, as long as you doesn't possess divine spark plate and condensed your own divine spark, you can't transcend and freely enter God's Domain.
Remember, "do note that a character can qualify for this rating even if their verse does not have an infinitely-layered or equivalent cosmology, as long as it is either stated, shown or left very obvious that the character in question already bypasses the very nature of such structures altogether, in a way that simply "stacking" more of them logically would not allow one to reach their level of power / size."

Even if you became on par or stronger than the transcendental Daozis, True God and Saints in terms of raw power, and even you destroy the infinite hierarchal realms on a saint's universe, you can't reach their level, because they transcended from your own plane of existence. You only transcend if you possess the divine spark plate+divine spark.

2. Secondary Beings and "Omnipotence"

(Note: Geniune=True, Yuan=Energy, translation difference due to various scanlations on the manhua)

Secondary Beings are called to the entities that inhabits inside a saint's universe. They are beings that is made of True Yuan essence. Secondary Beings are a stereotype to those who lives inside the saint's universe.
So why does being a "Secondary Being" is insignificant?

Do remember that: "by perceiving them as akin to fiction or something similarly insignificant."

There are 2 reasons why being a "Secondary Being" is an insignificant, and can be portrayed as "unreal" entities:

a. They are made of True Yuan Essence. True Yuan Essence was used by almost cultivators inside the saint's universe (except one person, apotheosis readers knew who is this person). The main and unique characteristics of True Yuan is "power of visualization" (low-end Reality Warping) and "Strength of Belief" (high-end Reality Warping).

Now if something can create existence from nonexistence using just the True Yuan (Genuine Energy) by using billions of entities, Saints doing the same thing is an easy feat, because they are "omnipotent" inside their Universe. But the inhabitants inside the Saint's Universe, why are they insignificant, and worse, will turn into nonexistent outside God's Domain? because of:

b. Being born from True Yuan (Geniune Energy) is considered as unreal entities in God's Domain
this is the most important reason why Secondary Beings can't transcend to God's Domain. Because once a Secondary Being leaves the saint's universe unwanted, they turn into a clump of True Yuan energy and became inexistent, akin as defying the Heavenly Way/Dao and leaving the Domain (Saint's Universe). Unless you possess the divine spark plate and condensed a divine spark.

3. Beyond the Heavenly/Divine Dao (Temporal) and The Saint's Universe (Spatial)

Saints are entities that controls a universe, and at the same time possess a divine dao inside their own universes. Divine Dao is the one who controls and records the fate of the universe, both past, present, and future. Basically, a universe has their own Divine Path/Dao, which owned by a certain Saint. Being the owner of the Divine Dao, or even beyond the Divine Dao, are considered as transcendental being, a fateless one, not to mention Daozis and True Gods. Transcending the Divine Dao=transcending the temporal rules of the Saint's universe.

The spaces on a Saint's Universe is considered as very different compared to God's Domain. Because a Saint's universe is considered as "unreal" spaces that is made by the Saints, and the God's Domain is the real world. So transcending the "unreal" spaces=transcending the spatial rules and transcending to the "real world".

Conclusion

- Daozis, True Gods and Saints are Transcendental Beings
• Daozis are 1-A (lowest)
• True Gods are 1-A (higher)
• Saints are 1-A (highest)

-Any living beings that lives inside the saint's universe, and those who can't transcend due to the lack of posession of Divine Spark Plate + didn' condense a Divine Spark is considered as insignificant and unreal beings.

- Daozis, True Gods and Saints transcends spatiotemporal rules of their verse, especially Saints that created the Heavenly Way and the Domain/Saint's Universe.

Thank You for reading!!

 

[Lormac_CC]

This isn't even enough for low 2-C

 

[Everything12]

The only thing that can stretched to even be close to even Low 1-C is the last part about Real World's, but even that is not given enough explanation to get even a Possible Low 1-C rating.

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

This isn't even enough for low 2-C

Why? Is there any reasons why even their tiers can't reach low 2-C?

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

The only thing that can stretched to even be close to even Low 1-C is the last part about Real World's, but even that is not given enough explanation to get even a Possible Low 1-C rating.

What are the lacking qualifications for them to become 1-A? i

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

there isn`t even profiles for the verse.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Why? Is there any reasons why even their tiers can't reach low 2-C

Because there is nothing, a universe made of higher and lower planes. Now the last scan about the real world says something about universes

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

Because there is nothing, a universe made of higher and lower planes. Now the last scan about the real world says something about universes

what if the saint's universe has infinite-layered hierarchies? it's still invalid because even how potent the true yuan as you ascend to the higher realms, you can't transcend to God's Domain because if you do so w/o the possession of Divine Spark+Divine Spark Plate, you will be turn into a clump of energy when you go out to God's Domain.

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

there isn`t even profiles for the verse.

In fact, there is an Overview of the entire universe+simple art

 

[Lormac_CC]

what if the saint's universe has infinite-layered hierarchies? it's still invalid because even how potent the true yuan as you ascend to the higher realms, you can't transcend to God's Domain because if you do so w/o the possession of Divine Spark+Divine Spark Plate, you will be turn into a clump of e

There are no Infinite layered hierarchy. I don't see how not having an energy stuff means proof for 1-A

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

There are no Infinite layered hierarchy. I don't see how not having an energy stuff means proof for 1-A

"However, do note that a character can qualify for this rating even if their verse does not have an infinitely-layered or equivalent cosmology, as long as it is either stated, shown or left very obvious that the character in question already bypasses the very nature of such structures altogether, in a way that simply "stacking" more of them logically would not allow one to reach their level of power / size.[2]"

Basically it means that even the verse doesn't have infinite-layered hierarchies, as long they are transcended from that plane, that even if you stack infinite-layered realms logically, they can't reach their tier, as stacking these realms infinitely, no matter what, you are still bound by the heavenly way and the domains of the Saint. Do read the 1-A tier qualifications.

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

There are no Infinite layered hierarchy. I don't see how not having an energy stuff means proof for 1-A

1. They are transcendent from their plane of existence, even their cosmology doesn't possess infinite layered-realms

2. They are transcendent to the spatiotemporal rules of their cosmology

I didn't see any wrong in these conclusion

unless you downgrade their verse and ignore their transcendental rules

 

[Lormac_CC]

However, do note that a character can qualify for this rating even if their verse does not have an infinitely-layered or equivalent cosmology, as long as it is either stated, shown or left very obvious that the character in question already bypasses the very nature of such structures altogether, in a way that simply "stacking" more of them logically would not allow one to reach their level of power / size.[2]"

Yeah like the root from nasuverse

Basically it means that even the verse doesn't have infinite-layered hierarchies, as long they are transcended from that plane, that even if you stack infinite-layered realms logically, they can't reach their tier, as stacking these realms infinitely, no matter what, you are still bound by the heavenly way and the domains of the Saint.

Meh this is hard to explain, can someone help. Characters not having range to reach a place does mean 1-A

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

Yeah like the root from nasuverse

Meh this is hard to explain, can someone help. Characters not having range to reach a place does mean 1-A

So if you said that if one of the transcendent beings can destroy a saint's universe, you might consider them as 1-A? because Saints can.

On apotheosis wiki (because it's not shown on the manhua yet, only from the novel) there is a measurement of one's strength called "great god's strenth" and 1 great god strength can destroy hundreds or thousands of saint's universes. and Saints have at least 10 great god's strength.

 

[Lormac_CC]

1. They are transcendent from their plane of existence, even their cosmology doesn't possess infinite layered-realms

2. They are transcendent to the spatiotemporal rules of their cosmology

I didn't see any wrong in these conclusion

unless you downgrade their verse and ignore their transcendental rules

Those aren't really transcendence, check the FAQ for when something is transcendent

 

[Lormac_CC]

So if you said that if one of the transcendent beings can destroy a saint's universe, you might consider them as 1-A? because Saints can

Destroying a 3-A structure isn't 1-A

On apotheosis wiki (because it's not shown on the manhua yet, only from the novel) there is a measurement of one's strength called "great god's strenth" and 1 great god strength can destroy hundreds or thousands of saint's universes. and Saints have at least 10 great god's strength.

Still not transdence

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

Destroying a 3-A structure isn't 1-A

Still not transdence

So basically u scaled the saint's universe as "3-A" because the work of fiction stated it as "universe"?

First of all, it doesn't possess the characteristics of universe at all, as it must be connected to the higher domain, the god's domain. Then the possession of Divine Spark+Divine Spark Plate is considered as invalid and useless because if it's a "real" space (which is an "unreal" space) they can ascend and descend freely from God's Domain, w/o turning into an energy. The Divine Dao musn't be limited from the saint's universe, but even higher than the god's domain, as the saint's are still bound by the Divine Daos (who predicts the future and records the past, in sense, a "timeline")

So it basically not a 3-A at all. In terms of size, it's universal, but it's structure and complexity ain't universal level at all

 

[Lormac_CC]

So basically u scaled the saint's universe as "3-A" because the work of fiction stated it as "universe"?

First of all, it doesn't possess the characteristics of universe at all, as it must be connected to the higher domain, the god's domain. Then the possession of Divine Spark+Divine Spark Plate is considered as invalid and useless because if it's a "real" space (which is an "unreal" space) they can ascend and descend freely from God's Domain, w/o turning into an energy. The Divine Dao musn't be limited from the saint's universe, but even higher than the god's domain, as the saint's are still bound by the Divine Daos (who predicts the future and records the past, in sense, a "timeline")

So it basically not a 3-A at all. In terms of size, it's universal, but it's structure and complexity ain't universal level at all

Ok, it is a low 2-C structure

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

Ok, it is a low 2-C structure

btw, I can't find the transcendental FAQ's. Do you have the link?

 

[SweetDao]

I might be completely off topic, but I was also interested in the ratings of this verse (Saw someone claiming the MC could be 1-A or even more)

But since I don't want to go and read a novel that long (lazy as ****) I just scrolled through the wiki and found this :


"Greater Dimensions, the same as they exist, are a confusing topic. One important concept is that simply being greater dimensional doesn't make a lifeform stronger than every other lifeform in the preceding dimensions.

Firstly, this is because of the way of cultivation. Cultivation helps lifeforms become stronger by absorbing energy of their respective dimension. This is the one major difference in apotheosis.

Secondly, greater dimensional is not a tier of cultivation but a complete transcendence. This means that cultivation is unique to different dimensions due to differences in the constitution of the respective dimensional energy.

Finally, a greater dimension doesn't exist as a greater world but as a completely higher form of existence in terms of space and sometimes time."

I don't know if that can help or not.

 

[Lormac_CC]

btw, I can't find the transcendental FAQ's. Do you have the link?

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Lormac_CC]

I might be completely off topic, but I was also interested in the ratings of this verse (Saw someone claiming the MC could be 1-A or even more)

But since I don't want to go and read a novel that long (lazy as ****) I just scrolled through the wiki and found this :


"Greater Dimensions, the same as they exist, are a confusing topic. One important concept is that simply being greater dimensional doesn't make a lifeform stronger than every other lifeform in the preceding dimensions.

Firstly, this is because of the way of cultivation. Cultivation helps lifeforms become stronger by absorbing energy of their respective dimension. This is the one major difference in apotheosis.

Secondly, greater dimensional is not a tier of cultivation but a complete transcendence. This means that cultivation is unique to different dimensions due to differences in the constitution of the respective dimensional energy.

Finally, a greater dimension doesn't exist as a greater world but as a completely higher form of existence in terms of space and sometimes time."

I don't know if that can help or not.

Won't really grant anything without context

 

[SweetDao]

Won't really grant anything without context

As I said, I just scrolled through the wiki, I honestly don't know if it's legit or just the personal fabrications of the wiki.

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

"They can qualify, however, if said "higher plane" is defined as having a relationship of qualitative superiority over lower realms in one way or another, such as by perceiving them as literal fiction/unreality (or being comparatively more "real" in nature), encompassing them in an infinitesimal portion of itself, residing in a higher state of being altogether, and etc."

This piques my interest. As I stated before, anything that is made of True Yuan, is considered as "Unreal"

Read the 2nd Reason "Secondary Beings and Omnipotence"

 

[Lormac_CC]

This piques my interest. As I stated before, anything that is made of True Yuan, is considered as "Unreal

Which was why Everything12 told that low 1-C is a possibility but that wouldn't be enough for low 1-C

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

Tiering System FAQ

A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Okay, I'll explain why True Yuan Beings are "unreal"

On this part, it stated that "the space of the saint's universe" is considered as "unreal"

What's the space (or let's say, the entirety of Saint's Universe) made of? It's made of True Yuan.

So what does Living Beings inside the saint's universe are made of? They are made from True Yuan (if used a reverse logic)

So the living beings that lives inside the saint's universe, to their cognition, anything that is made of True Yuan is considered as "real", while those transcendental beings like Saints, everything who is made from True Yuan essence is considered as "unreal" because the True Yuan's cognition of being "real" is only inside to the saint's universe, and anything that is "real" inside a saint's universe, once got out, is considered as "nonexistent"

and it fits to the criteria of "They can qualify, however, if said "higher plane" is defined as having a relationship of qualitative superiority over lower realms in one way or another, such as by perceiving them as literal fiction/unreality (or being comparatively more "real" in nature), encompassing them in an infinitesimal portion of itself, residing in a higher state of being altogether, and etc."

 

[Lormac_CC]

Okay, I'll explain why True Yuan Beings are "unreal"

On this part, it stated that "the space of the saint's universe" is considered as "unreal"

What's the space (or let's say, the entirety of Saint's Universe) made of? It's made of True Yuan.

So what does Living Beings inside the saint's universe are made of? They are made from True Yuan (if used a reverse logic)

So the living beings that lives inside the saint's universe, to their cognition, anything that is made of True Yuan is considered as "real", while those transcendental beings like Saints, everything who is made from True Yuan essence is considered as "unreal" because the True Yuan's cognition of being "real" is only inside to the saint's universe, and anything that is "real" inside a saint's universe, once got out, is considered as "nonexistent"

and it fits to the criteria of "They can qualify, however, if said "higher plane" is defined as having a relationship of qualitative superiority over lower realms in one way or another, such as by perceiving them as literal fiction/unreality (or being comparatively more "real" in nature), encompassing them in an infinitesimal portion of itself, residing in a higher state of being altogether, and etc."

Man you just made things even worst.

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

Which was why Everything12 told that low 1-C is a possibility but that wouldn't be enough for low 1-C

I'll add a feat why does the God's Domain and Saint's Universe is different. Is because that God's Domain is made of Primordial Chaos.

Now this energy is special, as anything that is created from it is considered as "real" in god's domain, because God's Domain is made of primal chaos

(Note: God's Domain=Holy Domain)

on that part, we can see that anything that is made from primal chaos won't be limited by the Heavenly Dao, and they can freely enter and exit to the internal world that is made of Primordial Chaos. Now what is God's Domain made of? They are made of primal chaos. What is God's Domain stated as? it's a real world:

In conclusion, everything is considered as "real" in god's domain, because everything is made from Primordial Chaos, and everything that is made from "True Yuan" is considered as "unreal" by them, eveb though beings that are made from True Yuan considered everything that is made from true yuan "real"

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

Man you just made things even worst.

No. If both beings are derived or born from the same energy, they would consider each other as "real", and there will be no form of hierarchy of reality since both are made from either True Yuan or Primal Chaos.

 

[Lormac_CC]

In conclusion, everything is considered as "real" in god's domain, because everything is made from Primordial Chaos, and everything that is made from "True Yuan" is considered as "unreal" by them, eveb though beings that are made from True Yuan considered everything that is made from true yuan "real"

It doesn't qualify for low 1-C.

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

Man you just made things even worst.

Because they are True Yuan beings (they are made of lower level energies), their Reality is weak from the perspective of those who are born from primordial chaos, a even a saint's universe can’t bear a presence of a Saint, as it will be unstable and can be destroyed, that’s why Saints aren’t allowed inside of a Universe.


They have rudimentary sets of reality. (Universes are based of how much a Saint know about reality itself. A universe is basically like a dream/synthesis (as the humanoid robot, A Fu, stated) of what A Saint know, that’s is explained about Laws and Karma (wind, thunder, fire, earth, ect. laws). You must be proficient and know that level of Law. Basically a Universe itself is just a synthesis of Saint Knowledge.


And the Universe is just Energy + power source to produce immortality for the saints. And not a real "reality" itself. Being a reality is just an effect of their cultivation method, and the cognition of the True Yuan entities to each other.

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

It doesn't qualify for low 1-C.

so you just denied the fact between their "real-unreal" cognition as form of transcendence? isn't just a bias? You're completely biased to the size and complexity of the verse and just ignore the transcendence qualifications of True Yuan living beings and Primordial Chaos living beings.

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

It doesn't qualify for low 1-C.

if you can state that the congnition of "real-unreal" between these transcendent and non-transcendent entities is false, then it's a win-win.

You just throwing random tiers w/o proof, and if you can't even give an explanation, then my statement is valid and none debunked it.

 

[Lormac_CC]

so you just denied the fact between their "real-unreal" cognition as form of transcendence? isn't just a bias? You're completely biased to the size and complexity of the verse and just ignore the transcendence qualifications of True Yuan living beings and Primordial Chaos living beings.

Bro, calm down, you should try understanding things, tiers are also given based on context. There are verses that have reality fiction and dream stuff but don't qualify for a higher tier. This verse is quite similar, the reason why things are unreal is because they aren't made from a particular energy why the real things are made from that energy, not that those in there higher planes are complex that they view the lower as unreal. If the lower plane was made off same energy as the higher plane then I am pretty sure they wouldn't be unreal. This isn't really transdence. You should understand what transdence means and when it is valid.

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

Bro, calm down, you should try understanding things, tiers are also given based on context. There are verses that have reality fiction and dream stuff but don't qualify for a higher tier. This verse is quite similar, the reason why things are unreal is because they aren't made from a particular energy why the real things are made from that energy, not that those in there higher planes are complex that they view the lower as unreal. If the lower plane was made off same energy as the higher plane then I am pretty sure they wouldn't be unreal. This isn't really transdence. You should understand what transdence means and when it is valid.

then give me those "certain fictions" that has the same situation as this .

The FAQ's didn't really stated other forms of "real-unreal" cognition, as long they view the lower realm/reality as "unreal", they are transcendent. What do you mean by that? Or you're just saying that FAQ's lacks more definitive answer? then they shouldn't just generalize the form of "real-unreal" cognition if it's only on the specific scope then .

 

[Everything12]

Well someone is certainly biased, I can say that much. So should I close this? As it's clearly not going anywhere as the thread maker clearly desires only the answers they already believe is correct and will not be dissuaded from it.

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

Bro, calm down, you should try understanding things, tiers are also given based on context. There are verses that have reality fiction and dream stuff but don't qualify for a higher tier. This verse is quite similar, the reason why things are unreal is because they aren't made from a particular energy why the real things are made from that energy, not that those in there higher planes are complex that they view the lower as unreal. If the lower plane was made off same energy as the higher plane then I am pretty sure they wouldn't be unreal. This isn't really transdence. You should understand what transdence means and when it is valid.

then you just stated there are form of "real-unreal" cognition hierarchies happening then .

but as I said, all forms of "real-unreal" cognition is supported on FAQ's as transcendentals. The FAQ's generalized it all and it isn't specified what form of "real-unreal" cognition is it.

 

[BoundlessDumbness]

Well someone is certainly biased, I can say that much. So should I close this? As it's clearly not going anywhere as the thread maker clearly desires only the answers they already believe is correct and will not be dissuaded from it.

Can I ask if you support the "real-unreal" cognition of the higher and lower planes of existence? because the FAQ's stated that if there is a form of hierarchy of reality, then it's a 1-A feat.

 

[Tarang123]

Quickly skimming over this CRT and yeah there’s nothing even close to 1A here. I’ll give a more detailed response much later

 

[Lormac_CC]

Well someone is certainly biased, I can say that much. So should I close this? As it's clearly not going anywhere as the thread maker clearly desires only the answers they already believe is correct and will not be dissuaded from it.

Please do