Anti-Spiral vs Arceus

[The_real_cal_howard]

Anti-Spiral's low end for AP and high end for speed. Peak Arceus.

 

[PaChi2]

The probability of Arceus winning is... 0.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

...

Is that a vote, or..?

Should I switch it to Lucemon?

 

[PaChi2]

Nah.

I said that because Anti-Spiral has probability manipulation ovo

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

You're messin' with my head, man!

 

[Kepekley23]

Never tell me the odds!

 

[Schnee_One]

Pretty sure Dialga or Palkia can handle AS.

Not sure why we're jumping to Arceus immediately.

 

[SuperBearNeo_X]

Arceus due to better haxes

 

[Schnee_One]

Arceus due to better haxes

Literally one of the absolute worst reasons you can actually use.

 

[Kepekley23]

Arceus should take it. His acausality counters Anti-Spiral's time-related abilities quite nicely, and Anti-Spiral has no counter to Existence Erasure. Arceus's BFR is also far better than Anti-Spiral's.

 

[SuperBearNeo_X]

Literally one of the absolute worst reasons you can actually use.

Explain how when greater hax is a legitimate reason

 

[DodoNova2]

if AS is not even big enough for SM, I do not see him beating Arceus

 

[NeoZex6399]

@Kep

Well, considering that Giratina lacks concept of time and space I'm pretty sure that Arceus resists Time Manipulation by default.

 

[Schnee_One]

Because it isn't a legitimate reason.

Saying "Greater hax" when both have very wide and varied sets of abilities is vague and not a reason worth counting a vote for.

 

[Kepekley23]

@Kep

Well, considering that Giratina lacks concept of time and space I'm pretty sure that Arceus resists Time Manipulation by default.

Isn't that what I said...?

 

[NeoZex6399]

@Kep

Right... I'm sorry.

But well, maybe Arceus could just make time go backwards until AS disappears from existence.

Apparently AS doesn't resist this.

 

[Aeyu]

AS can literally attack all points in a temporal dimension at once, though. Also, iirc, didn't Arceus' Void Manip only really work on boulders? Not sure that would work on the AS, especially when the dude is intangible and non-corporeal.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I hardly see how either of those means you can no-sell void manip.

Also, attacking all points in a temporal dimension shouldn't do anything to Arceus in the slightest given Dialga.

 

[Kepekley23]

As long as EX exists and doesn't have a resistance, he can be affected.

 

[Schnee_One]

As long as EX exists and doesn't have a resistance, he can be affected.

I mean. Unless the void Manipulation has been shown to effect a 2B it isn't working.

 

[Kepekley23]

By the same logic, a 7-A would win against a 7-B with Existence Erasure that wasn't shown to affect 7-As.

Arceus can erase the CT, so yeah, it affects 2-Bs.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im pretty sure that's not how that works as resistance is a thing for a reason.

If Anti-Spiral had resistance to it when facing [Insert Here] and then compared that to Arceus's, you'd have a point. But that isn't the case.

AS has no resistance to such hax so there's no reason why it wouldnt work just because he's 2-B also.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I am 99% sure Arceus' Existence Erasure has not been shown to work on the CT.

 

[Schnee_One]

By the same logic, a 7-A would win against a 7-B with Existence Erasure that wasn't shown to affect 7-As.

Arceus can erase the CT, so yeah, it affects 2-Bs.

3D Scale to a 4D scale kinda throws that analogy out the window.

 

[Kepekley23]

Arceus can create the members of the CT as an afterthought IIRC. No reason why it wouldn't work on them.

 

[Schnee_One]

Im pretty sure that's not how that works as resistance is a thing for a reason.

If Anti-Spiral had resistance to it when facing [Insert Here] and then compared that to Arceus's, you'd have a point. But that isn't the case.

AS has no resistance to such hax so there's no reason why it wouldnt work just because he's 2-B also.

Except we've had multiple discussions about this and quite frankly, it has to be shown to work on a 4D scale and the scale of the characters in order to work.

 

[Kepekley23]

4-D:

x.x.x.t (Arceus has been shown to be able to very casually affect T)

3-D:

x.x.x

It would work.

 

[Joseph619]

Arceus' Existence Erasure has pretty limited potency/range by feats, I don't see why it would affect Anti Spiral. Not all hax scale to attack potency. Especially since Anti Spiral is a 4-D being

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Thing is though, Arceus's Existence Erasure should be upscaled from the CT's for, well, obvious reasons and there's no reason why Arceus couldnt erase the CT at any moment anyway.

 

[Joseph619]

For example, a decent example of Existence Erasure is Dormammu erasing Eternity , as Dormammu has actually feat of affecting a 4-D non-corporeal character with the hax.

 

[Joseph619]

Thing is though, Arceus's Existence Erasure should be upscaled from the CT's for, well, obvious reasons and there's no reason why Arceus couldnt erase the CT at any moment anyway.

I thought we didn't scale hax between characters on the wiki?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Considering we're talking about characters who are direct parts of Arceus himself, they'd be exceptions IIRC.

And we already do that with some of Arceus's stuff like space-time hax too me thinks. But don't quote me on that.

 

[Joseph619]

Space-time hax is standard abilties of almost every 4-D+ character though. Existence Erasure is very specific and a quite broken ability, therefore it goes under scrutiny much more. That's why we have these requirements for the stronger haxes.

 

[Kepekley23]

To say Arceus's Existence Erasure wouldn't affect a 4-D is to say a 4-D's existence is somehow better than a 3-D's.

Which is completely untrue.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Dialga and Palkia vs Darkrai. Enough said.

 

[Kepekley23]

4-D > 3-D in AP.

However, the idea that a 4-D somehow gains resistance to hax is misguided at best. Your shadow is 2-D, doesn't mean you can pick it apart.

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, if you erase my shadow from existence, I don't die

 

[Joseph619]

4-D > 3-D in AP.

However, the idea that a 4-D somehow gains resistance to hax is misguided at best. Your shadow is 2-D, doesn't mean you can pick it apart.

How do you determine what's NLF then? Pretty sure I remember the wiki consensus that lower dimensional hax doesn't work on higher dimensional entities without proof. Dimensional tierinng difference is much more than simple attack potency gap.

Also I don't get the shadow analogy.

 

[Kepekley23]

If the 4-D doesn't have the feats, he doesn't have the feats. A 4-D doesn't gain resistance to hax just because he has an extra dimension.

 

[Kaltias]

To lower dimensional hax? It does.

That said Dialga and Palkia erased Darkrai so Arceus can affect 2-Bs