Another Wizard101 CRT

[Ben_CleverName]

Currently, the Player (Arc 3), the Bat, and Mellori are listed as "At least Low 2-C, possibly higher"... but I believe that they should be tiered at Low 1-C.

First, let's go over the reasonings listed as to why they are rated the way they are.

At least Universe level+, possibly higher (Defeated a weakened Grandfather Spider and could hold off The Storm Titan for quite some time, although, he was clearly far inferior to him, and the Titan was battling against the Titanic Lullaby, which previously put him into an eternal sleep).

The Storm Titan is already labeled as Low 1-C on their profile so in order to do battle with the Storm Titan the Player would have to be Low 1-C as well. The Player's Scion spells are already accepted as being Low 1-C so that alone is a possible method for damaging them, but the problem is that it was never stated or implied that the Scion spells were their only means of attack. The quest dialogue only states that the Player has to break the Storm Titan's Trident, but we're never told how they were supposed to do it, so I see no reason to assume that the Player would only have Low 1-C AP with their absolute strongest spells. As for why destroying the Trident would be Low 1-C, it's because it's the Storm Titan's weapon of choice, and it (alongside the Paradox Chain) was providing the Titan with enough strength to combat the Titanic Lullaby. Breaking the two of them left the Storm Titan vulnerable to the Titanic Lullaby and that was the main strategy for defeating the Titan (The Player had to break the Trident and Mellori had to break the Paradox Chain). There's also the fact that the Player is able to survive direct attacks from the Storm Titan himself, albeit devastating attacks.

If accepted, this would scale the Player, Mellori, the Bat, and Grandfather Spider (Without his heart) at Low 1-C. The Bat would scale to Low 1-C due to being equal with Mellori and the Player (As well as participating in the fight against the Storm Titan), and Grandfather Spider would scale to Low 1-C due to being completely unphased by Mellori's attempt to kill him as well as incapacitating her with a single spell.

It may seem strange for Spider to be Low 1-C despite allegedly needing preparation to perform a 2-A destruction feat, but it's important to note that he never intended to pull that feat off in the first place. There are several pieces of evidence to back that claim. Spider admits that he was waiting for Mellori and the Player to catch up to him in Mirage, despite it being a risk to his "master plan to destroy the Spiral". Spider also exclaims that he now has the key to reclaiming his heart and that the restoration of the Sands of Time was just a triviality immediately after incapacitating Mellori. It's also important to note that Mellori did not grow in power between her battle in Mirage and her battle in Empyrea. Finally, Spider states that he knew Mellori and Bat would deliver him back to Grandmother Raven in the Primordial Forest, and that being there with Raven was all that he ever wanted.

Agree: Antvasima, Elizhaa, AmeliaSCooper, Zenkaibattery1, Cropfist, SuperAPM
Disagree: Ionliosite

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

No CRTS right now until forum move + prep is done.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

Darn, here I was thinking it was finally time. Oh well... it can wait.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

As he said, we still are holding off on CRTs until all the tasks and projects on Antvasima's thread have been completed.

I will close this for now.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

As Content Revisions Threads are allowed now, I've reopened this thread.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

And I was only nine days too early.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

Bump.

 

[Antvasima]

This seems to make sense, but we preferably need more input from staff and experienced members.

 

[Antvasima]

@Elizhaa @Zenkaibattery1 @AmeliaSCooper @Ionliosite

Are you willing to help out with input here?

 

[Elizhaa]

The Low 1-C proposals look fine, to me, from what I read.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

Zenkai has said that they're sick and will likely be inactive for a couple of days, but I could message them on Discord about it for when they get back.

 

[Antvasima]

Elizhaa:

Thank you for helping out.

Ben:

Okay. That is fine.

 

[AmeliaSCooper]

Logic on this all seems sound from what I've read here and know of the game, I agree with the low 1-C proposals.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Yeah, Low 1-C sounds good

 

[Antvasima]

It would be good if @Ionliosite could comment here as well before we go ahead with this revision.

 

[Ionliosite]

... Why I being on contacted for this verse out of all things? I obviously don't agree with Tier 1, but I don't care enough about this to make an argument, so go ahead.

 

[Rikimarox2]

You are a wizard, Ion

 

[Antvasima]

Ionliosite:

Well, it seems like you were listed in the verse page, so your input would be appreciated.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

1-A Wizard 101 via ripoff CHIM when?

 

[Antvasima]

Please only add constructive evaluations to content revision threads.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

So right now it seems to be 4 agree 1 disagree. Should we keep waiting for more input?

 

[Antvasima]

I would prefer some more staff input. Are there any discussion moderators or administrators that you think would be willing to help? I can call them here in that case.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

I don't really know anyone who would answer me. I've tried asking for input in general by posting the thread on Discord multiple times, but every time I was ignored, so yeah, your help would be appreciated.

 

[Antvasima]

@SomebodyData @Dragonmasterxyz @Monarch_Laciel @Andytrenom @Dargoo_Faust @Wokistan @Mr._Bambu

Would any of you be willing to help us with evaluating this suggested revision?

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with this.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

What should we do since nobody is responding? Just keep waiting?

 

[Antvasima]

@DarkDragonMedeus @AKM sama

Would you be willing to help with evaluating this?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I mnot Knowledgeable on W101 but if what I read is correct, than this seems about right I guess.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Seems fine if other staff agree.

 

[AKM sama]

could hold off The Storm Titan for quite some time, although, he was clearly far inferior to him

in order to do battle with the Storm Titan the Player would have to be Low 1-C as well

I am curious as to what is the basis of the current justification listed on the profile? Because it states that he was "far" inferior to him, so holding the Storm Titan off would easily make sense if only the strongest attacks are Low 1-C. Based on that justification, if true, The Player doesn't necessarily has to be Low 1-C in all entirety.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

Honestly I never really understood why that was worded the way it was because it makes the difference between them seem larger than it actually was in that fight. Like, if the Titan wasn't being held down by the Titanic Lullaby at the time then the outcome could've possibly been different, but the wording makes it sound like the player and their partners were completely out-classed in that situation when they simply weren't. The Titan had to recharge himself through the Paradox Chain three times during the fight because the Player was doing so much damage to them at the time. But there's also the fact that the player has to endure attacks directly from the Titan during the whole ordeal, and the Storm Titan was actively damaging and was going to destroy the Chaos Heart before the player and co stopped them.

 

[AKM sama]

Like, if the Titan wasn't being held down by the Titanic Lullaby at the time

Does that mean the Titan wasn't at full strength?

 

[Antvasima]

AKM and Medeus:

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

Does that mean the Titan wasn't at full strength?

He was basically combating sleep the entire time, so to an extent yes, but not to the point to where his tier should've been affected one way or the other. The Titanic Lullaby doesn't reduce a character's AP or anything like that, it's just really good sleep hax.

 

[AKM sama]

If someone is combating sleep then obviously they are not at their full strength. To what point their AP can drop is something that cannot be quantified without explicit evidence, so I am not sure about this.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

I understand where you're coming from but even while weakened the Storm Titan was actively damaging and on the verge of destroying the Chaos Heart which has Low 1-C durability, and there's no reason to assume his attacks would be any weaker on the player. Although to be fair I kept forgetting to link the Chaos Heart's profile before now so I can understand why you'd be skeptical without that information.

 

[AKM sama]

Okay, that seems fine then.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

So it seems we have 6 who agree, 1 who disagrees and 2 who are neutral/unsure. Should we gather more input?

 

[AKM sama]

After reading the durability section, it appears that Chaos Heart's durability comes from the fact that it withstood attacks from the Storm Titan.

Durability: Low Complex Multiverse level (Because of the Aethyr surrounding it, Grandmother Raven needed to summon the Storm Titan to destroy the Chaos Heart for her. The heart withstood several attacks from the Storm Titan before they were finally stopped by the Player.)

So this is a case of circular scaling. You can't scale the Chaos Heart to Storm Titan and then use it back to scale the Storm Titan to Chaos Heart.

 

[Ben_CleverName]

I noticed that myself, and I agree the reasonings are bad and need to be changed.

The Chaos Heart scales to Low 1-C on account of being the main source of power for Grandfather Spider, to the point that it puts him on par with Grandmother Raven and Bartleby who were accepted as Low 1-C here.