Another CRT on DxD and Sirzechs Gremory

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok so my last CRT was only for the tiers. This will actually get into the real deal. I don't expect anyone to argue on 1 and 2.

1. A revamp on Sirzechs' profile, and by that i mean getting a better quote for sirzechs as well as a new pic for his profile. I NEED IT.

2. Is adding more info on his "summary", to add other stuff because 1 sentence doesn't do it justice. I need this too.

Now here is where i will start with more important topics:

3. Sirzechs' Immunity to Power Nullification . Now i don't mean on all of his powers, but rather on his Power Of Destruction. Coming from what the page for Power Nullification says on our wiki, it states this:

rendering the target a normal being.

Power Nullification applies to stuff that is not "normal" but rather "enhanced" via some kind of power or hax. Which is not the case with Sirzechs' true form as he IS energy. That is his true and normal state of being, he was born as power of destruction and he exists as mere energy. So power nulling his true form won't do anything, if anything power nulling his base form would transform him into power of destruction form, since the base form is a concealed form of Sirzechs, not his real form. Some similar examples here would be:

Majin Buu won't turn yellow when you power null him, he will stay pink, even though that is not normal for us, it's normal for him.

A ghost won't turn human if you power null him (assuming it's not a human who can take the form of a ghost with powers, im assuming it's an actual ghost).

A dream won't turn into reality and vice versa. etc etc.

PoD Form is Sirzechs' normal form, there isn't any more "nulling" to do once he is in that form, therefore power nullification should be useless on him (note im not talking about demonic power, mind reading, memory manipulation etc etc, im specifically talking about his PoD form). This immunity wouldn't apply to special types of Power Nullifications who based on how they may work they may even bypass this immunity, though under our definition for Power Nullification Immunity would apply.

4. Durability Negation on Sirzechs' power of destruction. The ability to erase individual particles out of existence (matter manipulation), the ability to erase souls (soul manipulation) and the ability erase the mind (mind manipulation) all fall under the Durability Negation page. And Sirzechs has all 3 of them in 1 move.

5. Non-Corporeality is missing from Sirzechs' profile. Considering the fact that he is literal "nothingness energy". He is stated to be literal Power Of Destruction. It is stated in the profile in the description of his powers:

Human-Shaped Aura of Destruction: Sirzechs' true form. He can convert himself into the Power of Destruction that destroys everything regardless of his will.

But the power itself is missing from his "powers and abilities".

Ok then that's a wrap.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I really need to get the first 2 points out of the way. I need more stuff as soon as possible.

 

[VoidGoji]

Theres no immunity to PNull, and void energy =/= energy of destruction. He can be PNulled, which will nullify the effects of PoD, not his true form/state of pure energy.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Theres no immunity to PNull, and void energy =/= energy of destruction. He can be PNulled, which will nullify the effects of PoD, not his true form/state of pure energy.

Well nullification usually works by rendering someone in base rather than just destroying the power. That won't be a null to him, it will be a null to PoD, you would have to null PoD into making it so that PoD is just normal energy. But he himself is immune to Power Null.

 

[VoidGoji]

The only immunities that exist are immunities garanted by lacking something.


No soul = Immunity to Soul hax.

No mind = Immunity to Mind hax.


And so on

 

[Firephoenixearl]

As i said there are different types of Power Nulls. The most common definition is 1 of these 2:

1. Is technically separating the power from the user effectively rendering them unable to use it. Examples:

Power Nulling Medaka's All Fiction.

Literally separating All Fiction from Medaka, so that Medaka will be unable to reach All Fiction and therefore use it.

2. Undoing your ability to use that power. This instead of separating your power from you, it just makes you unable to use it. Examples:

Medaka still has All Fiction, she cannot use it anymore (she lacks the mastery etc etc).

Naruto and Rassengan. He still has chakra, an abudance of it, he cannot transform that chakra into the rassengan anymore, he is unable to do it.

Goku and Ki Blast. He still has Ki, he cannot convert it into a Ki blast or control it to fly.

Both of these would be outright useless vs Sirzechs. Because you cannot separate what is esentially one. You cannot separate sirzechs from PoD, as they are the same thing. You also cannot remove Sirzechs ability to use PoD as it's literally parts of himself, he literally throws parts of himself.

Note: That i did put the "some power nulls may work". The only power null that will work is not a power null. It's actually Superpower Manipulation. Using Superpower Manipulation as Power Nullification would be possible if you did something like this:

Rather than trying to stop sirzechs from using PoD, since it's not possible. With Superpower Manip you would be able to change PoD, to make PoD not be PoD anymore. So to change the whole point of his power. To let him use PoD, but to make PoD utterly useless. Example:

Changing PoD into PoH (power of healing), so that each and every ball actually heals you instead of erasing you.

And stuff like that. Though those are all special types of Power Nullification, not from their literal definiton on our wiki and such. So immunity to it does work.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The only immunities that exist are immunities garanted by lacking something.


No soul = Immunity to Soul hax.

No mind = Immunity to Mind hax.


And so on

And not always. If you cannot logically be subdued to something then it will grant immunity. The easiest way is that one, not the only way. If your soul is in a different place (not your body), than you are immune to astral projection, even though you still have a soul.

 

[TriforcePower1]

It would just be resistance, not immunity, even assuming it's legit. Some character are capable of nulling even your essence and your identity (Yhwach comes to mind, but there are definitely others).

 

[TriforcePower1]

About the fourth, that's just basic EE. You can add on his AP that he can negate dura via PoD, though.

 

[RM97]

I agree with SchroKatze's reply above. You can power null the effects of PoD and it'll just null him. And no, Power Null can be of different types such as erasing your power sets, Nullifying the effects of your power, reversing Causality to make you lose your acquired power, outright making you powerless as if you never had them in the first place and you're a normal being,etc. So unless Sirzechs has any feat of resisting power null directly or indirectly, I don't think he'll get it.

Agree with Durability Negation cuz it's obvious.

I'm a bit iffy on the Non-Corporeality part as the statement could just be a metaphorical statement and his true form would have Passive PoD Aura. So yeah, need more evidence imo.

 

[ALRF]

Might bring quotes for Non-Corporeality instead of relying on Wiki quotes.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes but still they are "irregular power nullifications". Going by what is used as our definition, he should have immunity.

@RM97. Reversing causality won't work. He was PoD since the begining. You can't make him "never having" those powers, since he IS the power.

The only ways to power null are irregular power nulls. So basically other powers that work like power nullification. Erasing the fact that PoD "erases" will work, so removing the special traits from PoD making it just normal energy instead of erasing energy will work as a null, that's not rly our definition of power null doe. Power Null is in our page described as "the ability to turn another one into a normal being", and the most

Particularly powerful users can not only nullify powers that have been activated but prevent them from being used in the first place or even seal or steal abilities

These cases wouldn't work, besides i doubt everyone who has "resistance to power null" in this wiki has actually resisted ALL the possible powers that can power null from causality manipulation, to superpower manipulation, to power erasure, to conceptual manipulation to idk what other stuff can be used as null.

About the non-corporeality. It is already in the profiles as i stated. Besides as Azazel himself stated he is "the personification of PoD" "he is a compressed form of PoD in a humanoid shape" and as Ise states all the time "Sirzechs in his power of destruction form". From Sirzechs' soul not being erased by PoD, to him erasing stuff around him as a baby etc.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Again, assuming it's legit, it would still be resistance. Immunity is NLF.

 

[ALRF]

Non-corporeality is not on his profile. All of that is only fluff words

You'd practically need more solid evidence

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Again, assuming it's legit, it would still be resistance. Immunity is NLF.

Hmm. Ok then, i was going for immunity since, it's not depended on the potential but rather on the type. But ok if that actually counts as "resistance" then i don't mind.

 

[Tman766]

Going by what is used as our definitio

They still fall under the Power Nullification category lmao. A lot of Characters' power null in the wiki doesn't match up with what's stated in the wiki i.e "Turning into a normal being" yet they still have power null in their page. Just because the Wiki's page doesn't elaborates on the topic doesn't mean we can find loopholes and make an excuse for them.

And also Immunity Ôëá Resistance. So no even if Sirzechs has resistance to power null it won't equate to him getting Immunity to Power Null.

Agree with the Durability Negation as EE is meant to grant you that ability in most cases.

Like ALRF said, you'd need to provide evidence for that Non-Corporeality part (would be nice if it's screenshot or page number of the LN). And that last sentence didn't make any sense tbh. By default you'd be unaffected by your own hax. Look at Toppo who had Aura of Destruction around his body yet it didn't kill him or anything. It's not even close to the evidence required for Non-Corporeality.

 

[Tman766]

But the question remains, has Sirzechs Lucifer resisted power null?? or was described or stated to be unaffected by Power Null?? Because if not, then I'll have to disagree with that unless evidence is provided.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

You got a better quote for Sirzechs? Dunno if there's another render for him.

About the non-corporeal stuff, it should be in Volume 12 and / or Volume 21.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

You got a better quote for Sirzechs? Dunno if there's another render for him.
About the non-corporeal stuff, it should be in Volume 12 and / or Volume 21.

…….The shaking stops. Then there was silence within the shrine. What appeared in the middle was power of destruction in the shape of a human. The new form of power of destruction looks at Hades.

[In this form, the power of destruction spreads without my command. Without any barrier of field, it will make everything go back to nothingness. ―It was fortunate that this shrine was made very strong. It seems like this place will last longer.]

The new form of the power of destruction is none other than Sirzechs himself.

So this is the true form of Sirzechs……

Are you telling me that insane quantity of power of destruction compressed itself into the form of a human……? But the quantity of aura I can feel with my skin……! From the amount of aura I can feel right now……. Isn't it ten times more than that of the former Lucifer!?

(oh btw @Burning since i am on the chapter:

"Many of my chores have already been completed, so I came here to act as reinforcements for the allied forces in Japan. I then learned that you and Apophis were fighting against each other within this black barrier. It is most likely impenetrable for those without sufficient strength."

Apophis truly was powerful. Unless someone possessed sufficient strength, they would not be able to break through this barrier.

This would prove that Sirzechs > Heavenly Dragon since he managed to get through the barrier and even overwhelm trihexia's core who did the same and even managed to strengthen the barrier.)

"As your brother-in-law, I really want to have the opportunity to fight together with you. But anyway, this is also my last act of selfishness."

Your words, what do you—. I didn't understand the true meaning behind Sirzechs-sama's words, but the Maou-sama continued to elevate his aura which embodied the power of destruction. The entire island was trembling—. His aura soared up again, and the demonic energy of destruction enveloped Sirzechs-sama's entire body! What appeared in his place was a dense concentration of the aura of destruction which had converged into a humanoid form, an absolute existence. I-Is this Sirzechs-sama's true form? Just by feeling the atmosphere he exuded from beside him, it made me understand that this was an immense aura beyond all imagination…. This is a Super Devil. The current Maou Lucifer! Even Ddraig leaked a breath of admiration at the sight of this.

[…This is Rias Gremory's ani. An irregular among the Devils. …A true monster.]

Having become the incarnation of destruction, Sirzechs-sama laughed.

[Fufufu, I think that your transformation is also very irregular right, Ddraig? —So how about the crimson Maou and crimso[9] Dragon Emperor stop this monster together?]

—What! …I haven't had an invitation that could be any more exciting than this!

"Yeah!"

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

>This would mean that Sirzechs > Heavenly Drago

We already talked about that, and I'm not interested in continuing until we get more info. Sirzechs teleported into the barrier space after Ise's final attack turned Apophis to dust. Trihexa's consciousness warped into it by distorting space. Nothing to do with strength, and Ise would have destroyed the barrier if it wasn't for outside interference.

Ise beat Trihexa's consciousness the same way Sirzechs did. They both overwhelmed it, and it couldn't harm them. Although, it gradually started adapting to them. The only thing is that PoD can erase stuff while Ise's physical attacks can't, and he didn't use any energy attacks. You can see that Blazing Inferno completely disintegrated Trihexa's consciousness.

 

[Vergil_Lucifer]

Also Sirzechs prefer to escape and not took Blazing Flame on himself.

 

[The_Causality]

Hmm....

If Lucifer is the power of Destruction who => a Power

If you Power Nulled him it's not supposed to be .... Nullified?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Hmm....

If Lucifer is the power of Destruction who => a Power

If you Power Nulled him it's not supposed to be .... Nullified?

The word play there xD. Power Null works on the powers an individual has, not on powers without an individual. It renders somebody unable to use a power, but if you are the power itself then stuff changes. Though different power null will work differently on Sirzechs.

So would "Limited Resistance to Power Null" work? Since it's limited to the type of power null?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I looked a little and I didn't see a better render for him.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok so i guess Dura Neg can be added to his profile.

Power null should be added as resistance?

And Non-Corporeality not yet?

Is that the moral of the story?

 

[RM97]

Dura Neg, Yeah definitely.

Power Null, Not enough evidence tbh.

Non-Corporeality, IMO yeah.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Dura Neg, Yeah definitely.
Power Null, Not enough evidence tbh.

Non-Corporeality, IMO yeah.

Well power null is not sth that need evidence.

Kind of like how we give Soul Manip Immunity to someone who lacks a soul, or how we give immunity to physical dmg to someone lacking a body.

Someone who shares his existence with a power, should be immune to having his power nullified. That's what i was going for.

 

[VoidGoji]

The point is: Lacking a soul is the only way to get immunity to soul hax.

Theres zero evidence for power null resistance here, its entirely based on assumptions.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The point is: Lacking a soul is the only way to get immunity to soul hax.
Theres zero evidence for power null resistance here, its entirely based on assumptions.

As i said, it's not an evidence. Same as how someone who lacks a soul doesn't need an evidence of some sort (besides the evidence for lacking a soul i mean) to prove he has immunity.

Now it should be immunity imo since the power doesn't exist, the power is fighting you personally (kinda). So separating Sizechs and PoD is impossible since Sirzechs and PoD are the same being, the same existence. And rendering him unable to use it is still, well...impossible, no matter how you null my body, it will still have a body temperature, no matter how you null sirzechs he will still be a ball of PoD, because he is that.

Get my point? Power null is a skill/hax that works on powers, but PoD is not sirzechs' power, it's part of his being, like actually him. PoD is sirzechs, it's not a power, PoD is an existence here.

That was why i thought of immunity but since some types of power nulls may work some said it's resistance. But i'd say something more like "limited immunity to power null" so that it's limited to the type of power null rather than the potency of it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok so final thoughts, can everyone pls give their input in a: Yes

Yes

Yes

Manner? If you don't agree then give your reason for why you don't agree.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok then since Dura Neg seems to be ok with ya'll then imma add it.

Power null....imma wait a bit more.

Non-Corporeality idk. It is seriously being used a TON, with stuff like Sirzechs being literal PoD and to how ppl refer to him as the personification of PoD, or ise calling true form sirzechs "sirzechs in his PoD" form and also the fact that everyone in DxD can interact with non corporeal beings. The explanation of his power also says he becomes Power of Destruction. And ppl like Sairaorg (completely untalented Devil, he just trained rly hard) can literally grab, crush and destroy energy... it would be impossible for anyone to prove Sirzechs' non-corporeality since anyone can interact via their own traits. Though him being literal energy and the statements of "turning into PoD", "humanoid PoD" "PoD form" "personification of PoD" "embodiment of PoD" etc etc as well as the clear result from being turned into nrg all point towards his Non-Corporeality.