Anima: Beyond Fantasy Magic Revision

[Hl3_or_bust]

This is basically to just create a standard for what Magic in Anima counts as for page updating.

• Magic is a fundamental element of existence that can alter the essence/concept of reality. [conceptual Reality Warping]
• Magic is composed of the spiritual energy of the world, standing as an aspect of the Flow of Souls that ignores physics and logic. [Evidence for soul screwery]
• By merging with different souls, elements, or emotions, Magic can change its properties and diversify. [conceptual Fusionism, although it's not exactly combat applicable]
• Magic is "the power of souls" that revolves around Wizards, who act as living portals that allow it to manifest in the physical world. [More evidence for soul screwery]
• Magic is a way to control existence and its rules, with every gesture and verse used to create a spell being spoken directly to the soul of the world itself. [ Law Manipulation]
• Those with The Gift unconsciously use Magic throughout their life, even if they are not aware of their power. [ Instinctive Reaction]
• Magic as a force is beyond all belief and philosophy, shapes life, gives rise to dreams, acts as the essence/concept of everything, and is the basis for every other kind of energy. [ Life Manipulation, Dream Manipulation, and more evidence for soul stuff]
• Those with The Gift can perceive the supernatural. [ Extrasensory Perception]
• Spells are formulas used to contain Magic into specific forms and are compared to mathematical calculations. [ Mathematics Manipulation]
• Even if two Wizards learn the same spell, their own circumstances will result in fundamentally different formulas with which to contain Magic.
• The various Magic Theorems create conceptually divergent spells to achieve the same effect and are merely different interpretations and differently focused versions of Magic. [ Resistance to Power Mimicry]
• Onmyudo involves using cosmological energies to influence the five basic elements and all life. Additionally, Onmyudo was so powerful that, even when used by mortals, it warped the various spiritual planes of Samsara. [ Energy Manipulation, Elemental Manipulation, and more soul stuff]
• Vodoun is based on the idea that everything is tied to everything else, allowing its users to influence anything, even concepts and spirits, by doing something seemingly unrelated and even bind spells to a target's soul. Moreover, "the elements", which are placed at a higher scale than souls, can also be manipulated this way. [ Causality Manipulation and more soul stuff]]
• Shamans create spells and magical effects by drawing spirits into reality and influencing them, similar to Summoning. [ Summoning]
• Natural Magic is a chaotic, unpredictable energy that imitates magic and lacks any formulas with which to create definite spells. [ Chaos Manipulation and Power Mimicry]

In VSBW terms:

• All Magic has a conceptual scale of Reality Warping, Soul Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2), Life Manipulation, Dream Manipulation, Fusionism, Law Manipulation, and Mathematics Manipulation. It also has Energy Manipulation, Elemental Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, Summoning, Chaos Manipulation, Power Mimicry and Resistance to Power Mimicry due to all Theorems scaling to each other, as they are just different interpretations of magic.
• Those with The Gift have Instinctive Reaction and Extrasensory Perception.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Ok.

 

[Antoniofer]

Reality Warping is kind of redundant as our own Magic page define it as such, is the most common way of RW.

Is also important to notice that someone that use Magic do not manipulate the soul of other or any element (not by standard, with the correct spell one can do everything), in general what the description refer is that with the gift one manipualte the energy of the Nexus to perform countless of effects (such does mentioned in OP), but by simply having the Gift (that by the way, is a metarol term, similar to Nephilim) do not allow someone for having powers like Causality Manipulation.

The correct term would be Aether Manipulation, or pretty clomagic., cuz despite being stated to power that "shapes existance", we known they are other two kind of powers that differ from magic, in order to not take everything too literal.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Not really? That page is rather outdated and most magic doesn't outright manipulate reality like the page says it does.

Nope. That is literally what Magic does to achieve its effects, not the effects themselves, so it does have those things. Literally where did I type that having The Gift gives causality manip.

Aether Manipulation is an extremely arbitrary ability that doesn't apply here no matter how you try and tack it on. Magic shaping existence and sharing this property with other powers doesn't invalidate said property without a really damn good reason, which afaik doesn't exist in this case.

 

[Lapsad]

Most of all , magic user suppose to added conceptual type 2 ?

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Most of all , magic user suppose to added conceptual type 2 ?

Souls in Anima were determined to be type 2 concepts here

 

[Antoniofer]

Not all RW needs to warp space, time and cosmic forces, even mundane effect such creating fire is considered RW if is performed by the same means.

Is within the list, isn't it? I pressumed you refered that is one of the powers granted by Magic by default, if you didn't mean that, then I apologies. Someone that uses magic manipulate the energies of the Nexus, yes, but putting that will just make people believe someone with magic can by default manipulate the dreams of others for example (there's the Dream subpath for that). Simply creating an ice spike or launching a fireball do not do anything more that, the only path that actually does something by being casted normally is Necromancy, and yet it would take a millenia to cause any significant damage.

Other few things, the gift allows one to see the supernatural energies, but is still unable to see spiritual beings, psionics and physical energies (such sound). Anyone capable to use magic neither have the abilities that grants onmyodo, shamanism nor voodoo, someone needs to study the theorme, such the Jayan shaman or Kingsly.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Not really no. Having such limited reality warping usually requires quite a bit of evidence for it to not just be fire manip.

Those abilities are the mechanics behind the spells themselves, something that can easily just be explained.

Its still ESP for extremely obvious reasons. The Theorems are repeatedly stated to just be different interpretations of magic that are both true and false due to its nature, simply being more focused in certain ways than others.

 

[Antoniofer]

Ok, so we got that clear, guess there's no issue as long that is explained.

And about the type 2, not sure if Bambu finally accepted it, but to be clear, what does involve to destroy a type 2 concept? That I believe is what soul in Anima are being suggested to be.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

aight

There really isn't any way for it to not be type 2. It fits every property that a type 2 concept should have. Outright destroying a soul is a very high-level thing in Anima, but damaging or manipulating one is rather common, to the point that there's an entire type of spell that specifically does it better than normal.

 

[Antoniofer]

Better get Bambu or any other admin for if hasn't been confirmed.

But iirc, destroying a type 2 concept would involve erasing someone through time; is important to notice that destroying the soul of someone in Anima don't do that, but since there's no current spell that could don't restore a destroyed soul as time magic is nerfed by Ormus (Ormus nerf a bunch of stuff), someone whose soul has been "uncreated" (note: being uncreated doesn't mean uncreated by the spell of the same name) simply will not come back.

Otherwise, these uncreated beings are still remembered and if they had childs, they'll still exist; Rah, Nascal and Ghestalt were for example uncreated, but their memories and actions remain in the world.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Like I said, there's literally nothing else it can be, but if you want.

That doesn't have anything to do with whether a concept is type 2 or not.

 

[Antoniofer]

Ah no? Then doesn't matter; guess I'll message Bambu tomorrow to get a confirmation.

 

[Edwellken]

Can you maybe clarify in the op what scan correlates to what abilities you listed? Reality Warping, Soul Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation are self explanatory, but Life Manipulation, Dream Manipulation etc not so much.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

That's a good idea, yeah

I'll add that when I get the chance

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, Bambu doesn't have much more add, so we either look for some other Admin or let it be; I ignore the meaning of type 2 concept so can't say much about it.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

added the stuff

 

[Edwellken]

I guess one thing at a time

Soul Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation, Reality Warping and Extrasensory Perception: Agreed, because duh.

Life Manipulation, Dream Manipulation, Fusionism, Causality Manipulation: I mean yes, but it's more something that magic itself does and not really applicable to people who use it. Aka putting it on profiles for people who can just use magic would be misleading and imo not really accurate anyways.

Law Manipulation: Agreed, and there's actually more evidence to support this than what you showed, in fact.

Mathematics Manipulation: Ehhh, leaning towards no tbh unless there's more stuff for this. It's just people happen to be using mathematical formulas as a base for other types of effects. Idk though.

Energy Manipulation and Elemental Manipulation: For Onmyodo and Vodoun specifically, agreed. (I didn't see anything in the Vodoun scan that implied Causality manip btw).

Summoning: For Vodoun and Shamanism specifically, agreed.

Chaos Manipulation: Agreed.

Power Mimicry: I mean, idk if they mean "mimic" in the sense that power mimicry implies, but rather that Natural Magic "mimics" the effects of traditional spells despite not using actual structured formulas. Neutral, leaning towards no.

Instinctive Reaction: I see what you're going for, but I don't think it qualifies for what our page implies here. They use magic unconsciously, yes, but not to react to things without thought. I guess it could qualify for "Minor" IR, but idk really.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

Probably not a great time but I only just remembered about this

>Life Manipulation, Dream Manipulation, Fusionism, Causality Manipulation: I mean yes, but it's more something that magic itself does and not really applicable to people who use it. Aka putting it on profiles for people who can just use magic would be misleading and imo not really accurate anyways.

I mean, for one the last two are things that form personalized magic, something rather important to how no two people have exactly the same magic, and from Vodoun respectively. The other two are byproducts of magic existing at all, which someone who uses it in a world that doesn't normally have it would probably cause to some degree.

>Mathematics Manipulation: Ehhh, leaning towards no tbh unless there's more stuff for this. It's just people happen to be using mathematical formulas as a base for other types of effects. Idk though.

I'd need to recheck, but the whole "spells = mathematical formulas" thing is repeated several times across both the Core and Magic books.

>(I didn't see anything in the Vodoun scan that implied Causality manip btw)

iirc we discussed this over discord, but Vodoun works under the principle that everything is linked to everything else, meaning that you can manipulate someone or something through a seemingly unrelated object or action, mainly in the form of rituals.

>Power Mimicry: I mean, idk if they mean "mimic" in the sense that power mimicry implies, but rather that Natural Magic "mimics" the effects of traditional spells despite not using actual structured formulas. Neutral, leaning towards no.

I guess that makes sense.

>Instinctive Reaction: I see what you're going for, but I don't think it qualifies for what our page implies here. They use magic unconsciously, yes, but not to react to things without thought. I guess it could qualify for "Minor" IR, but idk really.

Minor IR is probably a good descriptor, since this isn't exactly like "dude guy uses his IR to instantly cast Holocaust of Dark"

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

bump