An Issue with Shigaraki's Fear Manipulation.

[ShivaShakti]

I feel this ability should likely be removed.

The current justification is this scan. The claim is that with a mere gaze, Shigaraki frightened a group of people and "overwrote" Trumpet's ability to amplify their mental convictions. However, I feel that disregards the other context of the scene. This scene succeeds Shigaraki's battle with Re-Destro, with the latter having been defeated. His followers are perceptibly disturbed by this fact in this very scan: "The Supreme Leader... He's..." "This cannot be..."

Evidently, Shigaraki was not the sole factor which petrified them. They arrive right as their leader is defeated, and they are discountenanced as consequence.

Furthermore, this scene precedes Shigaraki's attainment of All For One. For him to have an inexplicable ability to "Induce Fear" would contradict the established power system. So insofar as there exists no further evidence, or any greater elaboration on this "ability", I believe it should be removed.

 

[Nierre]

Link doesn't work

 

[KingTempest]

Upload link to imgur, don't send it directly from fandom

 

[ShivaShakti]

The link should function now.

 

[KingTempest]

Doesn't look like fear manipulation, it just seems like they did gain fear and it overwrote Hanabata's ability

Looks more like social influencing from them watching Shigaraki whoop their leader's ass

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Shiggy's fear manip doesn't come from a quirk, it's just a natural ability he has. It's outside of the power system of quirks in the same way that there are multiple people without quirks that make them physically stronger or faster that have superhuman physical characteristics. I don't think the Trumpet thing was just them getting scared, I feel like if the quirk had a weakness of not being able to work on someone because of their mental state it would've been mentioned. If all it took was just being scared for it to not work, I don't think Trumpet would've been as shocked for his quirk to have been negated. AFO does something similar to this back in Kamino where when Deku and his group see him, they are immediately assaulted with visions of their deaths.

 

[Gitagon]

What about the incident with Deku and Bakugo in war arc? How is AFO and Shigaraki's ability to give people an 'image of death' categorized here? It isn't a quirk but simply inducing intense fear with their presence alone that an image of death forms in people's minds. If that isn't fear manip then I don't know what is.

 

[Onelixy]

There are several examples in the series where villains (and some heroes) have a presence that people struggle to overcome. Stain did this, Shigaraki has done this on at least two occasions, AFO has done this, and even small-Might against some thugs during the Deku vigilante arc.

It does seem like a perfect example of fear manipulation, but that's my two cents.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Shiggy's fear manip doesn't come from a quirk, it's just a natural ability he has. It's outside of the power system of quirks in the same way that there are multiple people without quirks that make them physically stronger or faster that have superhuman physical characteristics. I don't think the Trumpet thing was just them getting scared, I feel like if the quirk had a weakness of not being able to work on someone because of their mental state it would've been mentioned. If all it took was just being scared for it to not work, I don't think Trumpet would've been as shocked for his quirk to have been negated. AFO does something similar to this back in Kamino where when Deku and his group see him, they are immediately assaulted with visions of their deaths.

I don't feel comparing his Fear Inducement to physical statistics is adequate. It has been exhibited that strength far beyond the threshold of a typical human is attainable without a quirk (Nomu and Shigaraki following his "Body Modifcations" are examples of this.) Fear Manipulation however is an ability of its own, and I would require further evidence of this being plausible outside of a Quirk. Furthermore, this is as I stated in the OP, Shigaraki prior to attaining All For One. All For One's instance of "Fear Inducement" may be assumed to be a quirk, however Shigaraki would lack this argument.

What about the incident with Deku and Bakugo in war arc? How is AFO and Shigaraki's ability to give people an 'image of death' categorized here? It isn't a quirk but simply inducing intense fear with their presence alone that an image of death forms in people's minds. If that isn't fear manip then I don't know what is.

Refer to my statement above. Shigaraki in this scene does not yet possess All For One.

There are several examples in the series where villains (and some heroes) have a presence that people struggle to overcome. Stain did this, Shigaraki has done this on at least two occasions, AFO has done this, and even small-Might against some thugs during the Deku vigilante arc.

It does seem like a perfect example of fear manipulation, but that's my two cents.

Are they ever elaborated on as abilities?

 

[Gitagon]

I don't feel comparing his Fear Inducement to physical statistics is adequate. It has been exhibited that strength far beyond the threshold of a typical human is attainable without a quirk (Nomu and Shigaraki following his "Body Modifcations" are examples of this.) Fear Manipulation however is an ability of its own, and I would require further evidence of this being plausible outside of a Quirk. Furthermore, this is as I stated in the OP, Shigaraki prior to attaining All For One. All For One's instance of "Fear Inducement" may be assumed to be a quirk, however Shigaraki would lack this argument.

Refer to my statement above. Shigaraki in this scene does not yet possess All For One.

Are they ever elaborated on as abilities?

Most series do not have fear manip elaborated as an actual power. It is just a way to show the strength of one character, usually their will, over another.

So for example, Stain's words had heroes at Kamino frozen in fear and even made Endeavor take a step back. But we know Endeavor is thousands of times stronger than Stain. He could have oneshot him easily yet Stain's aura still managed to push Endeavor back. Obviously this isn't a power that needs elaboration, it just shows how strong Stain's convention is. After-all most examples of fear manip are usually mental.

 

[Abstractions]

He could have oneshot him easily yet Stain's aura still managed to push Endeavor back.

I personally don't really enjoy the justification of "He's evidently stronger therefore there's no reason to be frightened", there's evidently levels to it because Endeavor isn't affected to the same degree others are, so approximating it's potency becomes a difficult thing as there isn't a whole consistent metric to it. But there isn't strictly limiting an individual from frightening someone else despite holding power over them, otherwise things like clowns wouldn't be scary to anyone besides children or even better; creepy-looking children still frighten tons of people, we however wouldn't assign an ability to this because contextually it's something happening mentally within the subject's mind organically as a reaction to an action someone performs or how they look, it isn't an involuntary response because the creepy child is forcing it to be but rather the subject forcing it on themselves, if you catch my meaning.

I'm not necessarily giving you a no on the ability, just pointing out a flaw in that particular reasoning.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Most series do not have fear manip elaborated as an actual power. It is just a way to show the strength of one character, usually their will, over another.

So for example, Stain's words had heroes at Kamino frozen in fear and even made Endeavor take a step back. But we know Endeavor is thousands of times stronger than Stain. He could have oneshot him easily yet Stain's aura still managed to push Endeavor back. Obviously this isn't a power that needs elaboration, it just shows how strong Stain's convention is. After-all most examples of fear manip are usually mental.

Then they would have Social Influencing.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Alright, so I read the fear manip and social influence pages again to double check and I think it would be social influencing then. I didn't realize that it explicitly had to be an ability that causes fear in order to be fear manip. I figured something like (hypothetical case) a person looking at someone with a glare and that person dying of a heart attack caused by sheer fear would automatically be fear manip but I guess it would actually be social influencing.

 

[Gitagon]

Social influencing it is then. Not just Shigaraki but not a single character in MHA has a fear inducement quirk. So if it has to be an explicit power, I don't see anyone qualifying for fear manip.

 

[Onelixy]

Are they ever elaborated on as abilities?

I don't think it has to be an explicit power or ability. It's phrased as the ability to inflict "fear", and in this case, there's no explanation for it, but only a select few in MHA can pull it off and incapacitates the people experiencing it.

AFO and Shigaraki.
Stain.
All Might.

It does really seem like a presence or unique know-how other people struggle immensely with or simply can't overcome.
Unless "fear-inducing presence", or something like that exist, fear manipulation seems most accurate in my opinion, although it's a fair discussion.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

There's a bit in the fear manip page where it says that it's social influencing if the fear comes from demeanor. It has to be an ability that inflicts fear, not just the ability to inflict fear.

 

[KingTempest]

Needs to be supernatural fear, not just being scary

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Pretty sure this thread was made in the past already

 

[Abstractions]

Pretty sure this thread was made in the past already

I believe that was in regards to Stain, not Shigaraki. I suppose the thread is becoming more general as it goes on though.

 

[ShivaShakti]

I don't think it has to be an explicit power or ability. It's phrased as the ability to inflict "fear", and in this case, there's no explanation for it, but only a select few in MHA can pull it off and incapacitates the people experiencing it.

AFO and Shigaraki.
Stain.
All Might.

It does really seem like a presence or unique know-how other people struggle immensely with or simply can't overcome.
Unless "fear-inducing presence", or something like that exist, fear manipulation seems most accurate in my opinion, although it's a fair discussion.

All For One's fear inducement is arguably a quirk he may have assimilated.

For other instances however, more evidence must be presented. Simply being intimidating or frightening would be Social Influencing without further factors.

 

[Onelixy]

For other instances however, more evidence must be presented. Simply being intimidating or frightening would be Social Influencing without further factors.

It doesn't fit VsBattle's current description of social influencing if you ask me, nor the section on fear manipulation referring to social influencing (more on that below).

To reinforce why I stand by my previous arguments. It looks like some select few characters in the series have the capability and ability to incapacitate and stop people around, regardless of whether the reaction is rational or not. Such as a crowd of pro heroes in front of Stain still freezing up after he lost to three students. This was also applied directly in combat with Shigaraki, as he was about to get both Deku and Bakugo if not for Gran Torino's clutch save. Which is incompatible with the description of social influencing, but compatible with fear manipulation.

I also think your scan works against you, as mentioned at least once above. Trumpet's reaction is not justified ("Impossible!") if people just could get scared and the effects get overwritten. His reaction suggests it's extraordinary, and not supposed to happen. And earlier in the fight, the people "incited/inspired" flew face-first into death by Shigaraki. It wasn't until he gave that gaze, they all froze up and even Trumpet's quirk which made them all able to essentially commit suicide moments earlier, wouldn't work.

The mentioned examples above, in my opinion, far exceed;

"simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanor, qualified as social influencing"

and since

"fear manipulation would allow the user to inflict fear regardless of these factors"

which is what we see with Stain, where there's no rational factor for any of the pro heroes to freeze and fail to act. Moreover, Shigaraki incapacitates both Deku and Bakugo in combat by just being in his presence.

But I guess that's our arguments clashing. Let's see what the team finds more convincing.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Needs to be supernatural fear, not just being scary

The level of fear is supernatural (freezing people in place, showing people visions of their own death, canceling out superpowers), it just isn't done with an ability.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Disagree with this for multiple reasons

In the scan shown, Shigaraki's Fear Inducement is completely supernatural. These were all people that were already willing to die for Re-Destro's cause, and they were further amped up in morale via Trumpet's Quirk, yet a mere glance completely canceled it out and left them afraid. Plus, later on after getting All For One, Shigaraki has the same Fear Inducement as All For One, which caused a fear so great that it caused hallucinations of death and nearly puking on the spot out of fear.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Disagree with this for multiple reasons

In the scan shown, Shigaraki's Fear Inducement is completely supernatural. These were all people that were already willing to die for Re-Destro's cause, and they were further amped up in morale via Trumpet's Quirk, yet a mere glance completely canceled it out and left them afraid. Plus, later on after getting All For One, Shigaraki has the same Fear Inducement as All For One, which caused a fear so great that it caused hallucinations of death and nearly puking on the spot out of fear.

Exactly this^

A mere glare from Shigaraki overwrote a Quirk’s Mind Control, that’s absolutely supernatural

 

[SuperStar]

I don't think it has to be an explicit power or ability. It's phrased as the ability to inflict "fear", and in this case, there's no explanation for it, but only a select few in MHA can pull it off and incapacitates the people experiencing it.

AFO and Shigaraki.
Stain.
All Might.

It does really seem like a presence or unique know-how other people struggle immensely with or simply can't overcome.
Unless "fear-inducing presence", or something like that exist, fear manipulation seems most accurate in my opinion, although it's a fair discussion.

In All Might's case, it was supposed to be changed to Social Influencing, never did tho

 

[KingTempest]

Nevermind, that justification look valid then

Edit: I need to read the chapter over cause everybody saying something different

 

[ShivaShakti]

Disagree with this for multiple reasons

In the scan shown, Shigaraki's Fear Inducement is completely supernatural. These were all people that were already willing to die for Re-Destro's cause, and they were further amped up in morale via Trumpet's Quirk, yet a mere glance completely canceled it out and left them afraid. Plus, later on after getting All For One, Shigaraki has the same Fear Inducement as All For One, which caused a fear so great that it caused hallucinations of death and nearly puking on the spot out of fear.

Evidently you didn't read the original thread.

They were already perceptibly disturbed by the fact that Re-Destro was defeated, so evidently Shigaraki wasn't the sole factor in that scene.

Shigaraki doesn't have All for One in that scene. All For One is not exactly pertinent to this thread.

 

[CloverDragon03]

And you’re evidently ignoring the fact that these people would die for Re-Destro’s cause already and their morale was boosted even further by Trumpet’s Quirk

Yet, a glance from Shigaraki negated all of that

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Evidently you didn't read the original thread.

They were already perceptibly disturbed by the fact that Re-Destro was defeated, so evidently Shigaraki wasn't the sole factor in that scene.

Shigaraki doesn't have All for One in that scene. All For One is not exactly pertinent to this thread.

Trumpet literally used a quirk that SUPERNATURALLY amped their morale and willpower, with the troopers already willing to die for the sake of the cause, and Shigaraki negated it

 

[Nullflowerblush]

If their morale was simply boosted, then all Tomura has to be is really intimidating.

 

[TheRustyOne]

This is a hot take I bet, highly doubt anyone will agree with me or understand me.

Fear Manipulation is the ability to make someone feel fear in a supernatural way. Something that has no logical reasoning behind it. Students being afraid and imagining their own death because they saw a single man seemingly wiped out multiple top Pro Heroes and an entire city block with a single attack isn't a supernatural reason for them to be afraid. They are perfectly justified to be scared, and even hallucinate.

In order for AFO's thing to be an actual ability, other people besides the children he scared would have to show something. But it was only for them, and there is no confirmation that he even knew they were there. Best Jeanist who was still conscious, and AFO knew he was still alive. Didn't have any problem or visions himself.

Shigaraki is very weird, the people he stopped aren't normal. Those people watch Shigaraki dust dozens if not hundreds of them beforehand, and they still charged him. Some of these people have also willingly become suicide bombers, smiling right before they explode and die.

They watched Shigaraki decay the majority of their city, and saw Re-Destro without his legs and Shigaraki standing above him. Trumpet's Incite further strengthens not just the body, but the minds of these people as well. Yet Shigaraki stops all of them with a glance back.

They didn't stop when Shigaraki slaughters dozens of others with a single touch, they didn't stop or hesitant to become living bombs, and they didn't stop and were going to charge him despite seeing Re-Destro lose and the majority of their city decayed. They only stopped when Shigaraki looked at them, which makes no sense.

Incite wouldn't work in the first place if they were already too scared to go up against Shigaraki. Incite only works on people who truly consider Trumpet to be a worthy leader. If they didn't have faith they wouldn't have moved forward to begin with. And Incite was also negated, a supernatural ability was negated by his stare.

There is no logical explanation here, even though I heavily dislike fear manipulation for Shigaraki I cannot understand why these people would only show fear in that moment. Only when Shigaraki looked at them, and at no other point when he attacked them beforehand. Even though he's killed so many of them beforehand.

AFO having fear manipulation is a no go for me. Shigaraki thing is stupid and makes zero sense, I don't want to talk about it anymore so I'm neutral on whatever everyone agrees on. All Might scaring away two thugs despite them fully knowing he lost his strength, I have no idea how to feel about that.

He didn't even go all buff, and this is like the only time this aura has been used against people stronger than themselves in a useful manner. Stain didn't make Endeavor run away, just made him take one step back. All Might had these guys running for their lives, even though they can easily kill him.

I don't know about All Might either, so I'll just stay neutral as well. Also I despise social influencing as an ability with every single fiber of my soul. That is not a joke and I can't agree with any person having it whatsoever. So please don't ask me about it. I don't want to even think about it.

Personally if I had control over this I'd remove Fear Manipulation from all of them, with no Social Influencing. But that's just my personal bias.

This is all I'll say on the matter. My apologies if I come off as antagonistic. Note: I'm not calling anyone out or trying to insult anyone.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Trumpet literally used a quirk that SUPERNATURALLY amped their morale and willpower, with the troopers already willing to die for the sake of the cause, and Shigaraki negated it

Evidently not well enough, because they were already disturbed by by Re-Destro's defeat. Shigaraki "Negating" it himself isn't unequivocally implied.

 

[ShivaShakti]

And you’re evidently ignoring the fact that these people would die for Re-Destro’s cause already and their morale was boosted even further by Trumpet’s Quirk

Yet, a glance from Shigaraki negated all of that

He didn't. They were already disturbed before he gazed at them.

 

[Therefir]

Evidently not well enough, because they were already disturbed by by Re-Destro's defeat. Shigaraki "Negating" it himself isn't unequivocally implied.

Disagree, they were about to attack Shigaraki until he stared at them, they know that Shiggy defeated Re-Destro.

Chapter 239
MLA Civilian: The grand commander... He is...
MLA Civilian: No way!

Notice how in these panels they aren't trembling or anything, they still tried to defend their leader even after knowing what happened.

Trumpet: Everyone! Save our grand commander!

After this, Shiggy simply stares at them and they immediately retreat in fear. This fear is completely irrational and does not come from Shiggy's power or the fact that he defeated their leader, it simply manifested after he stared at them.

 

[Therefir]

@Kingofwolves999 @Insert_creative_name_here_12 @Earthyboy
I know this thread has already been done before but your input would be appreciated here.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Uh, what?

The fear aspect of MHA is a completely different ability that isn’t linked to quirks or power level or anything. It is linked solely tot he willpower of the individual and enforcing it upon others.

Stain put fear in both Endeavor and Gran Torino, both characters who could easily defeat him. This was not a fear born from “oh no the serial killer is scary” or some ridiculous feat Stain did prior to even REMOTELY make them scared of him. It is attributed to his willpower and strength of character. His conviction was so strong that he made it a tangible presence that struck irrational, paralyzing fear in characters that had no business being afraid of him or even knowledgeable of his abilities to be slightly intimidated. Even people that JUST FOUGHT HIM were affected by this “presence.” He just got his shit rocked by three high schoolers and they nearly pissed themselves seeing him step forward not even at them. That is fear manipulation, not social influencing.

This of course then sets a precedent. There exists an ability in MHA that is wholely separate from quirks that stems from an individual’s conviction or willpower, rather than their strength.

We see this again from All Might when he fights Deku and Bakugo, where Deku says that All Night’s presence is comparable to Stains, and is why he runs from him so much. Of course, Deku is an All Might fanboy, so that can’t be fully attributed to fear manip on All Might’s part, hence why it is an example of social influencing. This is shown further when he, in his skinny form and just after getting blown out of his car, paralyzes two villains by telling them to move aside because of his conviction to help Deku. That is a more solid evidence of fear manipulation since they were resolved to fight him and remarked that they could beat him due to how weak he looked. They didn’t care he was number 1 after seeing his appearance, yet he paralyzed them with words alone.

Then there’s AFO, who is so obviously using the same style of ability Stain has that its ridiculous to claim otherwise. Making people who have no idea of your abilities or power besides a single showing hallucinate their deaths is not normal. That is not typical fear. That is supernatural as hell. And it’s not even something that can be put on as them being scared of his strength, because Deku directly says HE made them feel that fear. Not his attack or showing of power or defeating the heroes. AFO’s presence made them hallucinate from fear. This is especially ridiculous since Deku himself has seen and done stronger things than AFO’s air cannon, so there’s no reason he should have been scared of that to the point of seeing his death. Absolutely no he should lose this ability.

AFO’s fear Manip is further backed by Machia directly stating that it is his presence that makes people submit. Yes, he fights, but the “presence” of someone is what makes them Machia’s “king.” So even Machia acknowledges the supernatural aspect of the fear Manip.

And now, we come to Shigaraki, who literally has better showings than anyone else because he combines multiple. Shigaraki has the direct fear of COUNTERING A QUIRK with his simple gaze. The people under Trumpet’s quirk are literally being mentally amplified to not fear death and obey what he says without question. There is no reason whatsoever that anything Shigaraki does should override this ability unless he himself does something supernatural. They didn’t care that Re Destro was defeated, or that he destroyed the city. Trumpet told them to go down there and they were absolutely going to do so. They feel no fear. Several of them literally have run into death vs the League of Villains with no qualms whatsoever because of this quirk. His supernatural ability is making them do this.

Shigaraki overcomes this by staring at them.

That is such blatant fear manipulation it’s ridiculous. He stares at people amplified to not feel fear or care for their deaths, and they stop in fear.

This is compiled further during the war where he makes Deku and Bakugo hallucinate their deaths, similar to how AFO did at Kamino. He has the exact same presence as him, and it’s not due to his strength. Deku and Bakugo were MORE than resolved to defeat an All Might tier enemy. Deku particularly has been preparing for this for nearly a year at this point. He has every advantage going into this fight, all the drive and willpower to do so, and still he sees his death just from SEEING Shigaraki in the flesh.

One thing I would like to note however is that, despite seeing their deaths, Deku and Bakugo still were going to fight Shigaraki. Deku, in his hallucination at least, is even seemingly charging at Shigaraki to fight him despite dying, while Bakugo is aiming to blast him. So if anything, they should have resistance to fear manip for being subjected to Shigaraki’s fear manipulation and still trying to fight him.

Essentially: no, he should not lose his fear manipulation. It is a legitimate ability within MHA that is separate from quirks but VERY much present. The presence and willpower of characters has been an important factor since chapter 1 when talking about what All Might did to society, and has been a consistent theme of breaking limits and awakening to your true power. Trying to state otherwise is simply wrong.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Disagree, they were about to attack Shigaraki until he stared at them, they know that Shiggy defeated Re-Destro.

Chapter 239
MLA Civilian: The grand commander... He is...
MLA Civilian: No way!

Notice how in these panels they aren't trembling or anything, they still tried to defend their leader even after knowing what happened.

Trumpet: Everyone! Save our grand commander!

After this, Shiggy simply stares at them and they immediately retreat in fear. This fear is completely irrational and does not come from Shiggy's power or the fact that he defeated their leader, it simply manifested after he stared at them.

No. Their dialogue alone insinuates that they have been discountanced. They likely fled in fear of Shigaraki's display of power, not because of an inexplicable ability.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Uh, what?

The fear aspect of MHA is a completely different ability that isn’t linked to quirks or power level or anything. It is linked solely tot he willpower of the individual and enforcing it upon others.

Stain put fear in both Endeavor and Gran Torino, both characters who could easily defeat him. This was not a fear born from “oh no the serial killer is scary” or some ridiculous feat Stain did prior to even REMOTELY make them scared of him. It is attributed to his willpower and strength of character. His conviction was so strong that he made it a tangible presence that struck irrational, paralyzing fear in characters that had no business being afraid of him or even knowledgeable of his abilities to be slightly intimidated. Even people that JUST FOUGHT HIM were affected by this “presence.” He just got his shit rocked by three high schoolers and they nearly pissed themselves seeing him step forward not even at them. That is fear manipulation, not social influencing.

This of course then sets a precedent. There exists an ability in MHA that is wholely separate from quirks that stems from an individual’s conviction or willpower, rather than their strength.

We see this again from All Might when he fights Deku and Bakugo, where Deku says that All Night’s presence is comparable to Stains, and is why he runs from him so much. Of course, Deku is an All Might fanboy, so that can’t be fully attributed to fear manip on All Might’s part, hence why it is an example of social influencing. This is shown further when he, in his skinny form and just after getting blown out of his car, paralyzes two villains by telling them to move aside because of his conviction to help Deku. That is a more solid evidence of fear manipulation since they were resolved to fight him and remarked that they could beat him due to how weak he looked. They didn’t care he was number 1 after seeing his appearance, yet he paralyzed them with words alone.

Then there’s AFO, who is so obviously using the same style of ability Stain has that its ridiculous to claim otherwise. Making people who have no idea of your abilities or power besides a single showing hallucinate their deaths is not normal. That is not typical fear. That is supernatural as hell. And it’s not even something that can be put on as them being scared of his strength, because Deku directly says HE made them feel that fear. Not his attack or showing of power or defeating the heroes. AFO’s presence made them hallucinate from fear. This is especially ridiculous since Deku himself has seen and done stronger things than AFO’s air cannon, so there’s no reason he should have been scared of that to the point of seeing his death. Absolutely no he should lose this ability.

AFO’s fear Manip is further backed by Machia directly stating that it is his presence that makes people submit. Yes, he fights, but the “presence” of someone is what makes them Machia’s “king.” So even Machia acknowledges the supernatural aspect of the fear Manip.

And now, we come to Shigaraki, who literally has better showings than anyone else because he combines multiple. Shigaraki has the direct fear of COUNTERING A QUIRK with his simple gaze. The people under Trumpet’s quirk are literally being mentally amplified to not fear death and obey what he says without question. There is no reason whatsoever that anything Shigaraki does should override this ability unless he himself does something supernatural. They didn’t care that Re Destro was defeated, or that he destroyed the city. Trumpet told them to go down there and they were absolutely going to do so. They feel no fear. Several of them literally have run into death vs the League of Villains with no qualms whatsoever because of this quirk. His supernatural ability is making them do this.

Shigaraki overcomes this by staring at them.

That is such blatant fear manipulation it’s ridiculous. He stares at people amplified to not feel fear or care for their deaths, and they stop in fear.

This is compiled further during the war where he makes Deku and Bakugo hallucinate their deaths, similar to how AFO did at Kamino. He has the exact same presence as him, and it’s not due to his strength. Deku and Bakugo were MORE than resolved to defeat an All Might tier enemy. Deku particularly has been preparing for this for nearly a year at this point. He has every advantage going into this fight, all the drive and willpower to do so, and still he sees his death just from SEEING Shigaraki in the flesh.

One thing I would like to note however is that, despite seeing their deaths, Deku and Bakugo still were going to fight Shigaraki. Deku, in his hallucination at least, is even seemingly charging at Shigaraki to fight him despite dying, while Bakugo is aiming to blast him. So if anything, they should have resistance to fear manip for being subjected to Shigaraki’s fear manipulation and still trying to fight him.

Essentially: no, he should not lose his fear manipulation. It is a legitimate ability within MHA that is separate from quirks but VERY much present. The presence and willpower of characters has been an important factor since chapter 1 when talking about what All Might did to society, and has been a consistent theme of breaking limits and awakening to your true power. Trying to state otherwise is simply wrong.

1. This thread is not about Stain, AFO, or All Might

2. All evidence of fear inducement being a "Universal" power is quite circumstantial with no confirmation.

3. There were more factors than Shigaraki's mere presence in this scene, and if we assume he has an inexplicable ability to induce fear to the degree of "negating" a quirk, what exactly prevents us from assuming that the quirk itself has limitations? They were already disturbed by Re-Destro's defeat as displayed above.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

1. This thread is not about Stain, AFO, or All Might

2. All evidence of fear inducement being a "Universal" power is quite circumstantial with no confirmation.

3. There were more factors than Shigaraki's mere presence in this scene, and if we assume he has an inexplicable ability to induce fear to the degree of "negating" a quirk, what exactly prevents us from assuming that the quirk itself has limitations? They were already disturbed by Re-Destro's defeat as displayed above.

1. My argument is predicated on the notion that Shigaraki’s ability is not limited to himself, giving credence to its existence. You can’t just ignore several other characters backing up instances of an ability similar to this, then say there’s not enough evidence to suggest Shigaraki should keep his ability.

2. There’s more evidence that fear manipulation via willpower is a thing than there is that the verse should be tier 7.

3. All of those factors go out the window when Trumpet uses his quirk. The instant he tells them what to do, they should go do it. It is never said his quirk failed, that it reached a limit, that what Shigaraki did was too much, that they lost faith, NOTHING that would suggest a failing occurred in his quirk or that what happened was too much for his quirk to overcome. The only thing that happened that Trumpet himself stated is that Shigaraki cancelled out his quirk. Specifically, he says it was “drowned out.” That means that something is taking over his quirk, and that something is fear. Something Trumpet’s quirk should be removing from these individuals in the first place. Couple that with the several instances of fear manipulation from beforehand, that you are attempting to ignore, and there is no doubt that it was Shigaraki himself, not his actions, that resulted in his quirk not working.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Also still ignoring making literal hallucinations of death in two characters resolved to fight him that already knew of his power level just from appearing next to them.