Alien X vs HA DIO

[Greenshifter]

All of his abilities have 2-A range, his BFR and EE have such, so there's no reason to assume the non-TS abilities don't.

You really accounted for a peak AX didn’t you . (Don’t get me wrong I have more stuff for AX but saying that without CRT is really stretching it)

Guess I’ll wait for Chariot to come here and confirm this (I know it’s on the page but I remember something vague about touching). Don’t forget that Dio doesn’t know where the PD is though, I know he can teleport to it if he wants but he won’t be aware AX has a PD in the first place.

 

[Greenshifter]

Corrupts

How does this work? Dagon and Corrodium couldn’t corrupt Ben as long as he’s transformed and Alien X has body control on a molecular level.

 

[StrymULTRA]

How does this work? Dagon and Corrodium couldn’t corrupt Ben as long as he’s transformed and Alien X has body control on a molecular level.

It's basically mind hax + whoever is having that dark aura

 

[StrymULTRA]

Don’t forget that Dio doesn’t know where the PD is though, I know he can teleport to it if he wants but he won’t be aware AX has a PD in the first place.

That is true, but he can still BFR the body on a 2-A distance away from the PD or just erase the body

 

[Greenshifter]

It's basically mind hax + whoever is having that dark aura

Doubt it works on AX then.

That is true, but he can still BFR the body on a 2-A distance away from the PD or just erase the body

Yeah since TS has 2-A range Dio should take this quite easily, I’ll vote him for now, unless his stuff isn’t as OP in pre-absorption as it is in post.

Although out of curiosity what’s the activation speed of his time stop and how good is his mindhax resistance?

 

[FRIMI]

Celestialsapians can instantly warp to and from the forge of creation, right? BFR shouldn't work

 

[Greenshifter]

Celestialsapians can instantly warp to and from the forge of creation, right? BFR shouldn't work

It does. AX lacks range for now due to 2-B multiverse. Also they use portals for that, not teleportation.

 

[FRIMI]

that's weird, but ok ig

 

[FRIMI]

anyway, yeah if TS can affect all of Alien X, I also vote for Dio

 

[StrymULTRA]

Although out of curiosity what’s the activation speed of his time stop

All the abilities but TS are 2-A in range, and it is thought-based like the Canon DIO.

how good is his mindhax resistance?

Baseline 3D

 

[Greenshifter]

but TS

Oh it does depend on whether AX can time reverse or not then. I’ll retract my vote for now. It’s getting quite complicated then so I’ll come back to this tomorrow.

 

[FRIMI]

I haven't said it yet, but basically if Alien X is able to do anything before or during the time stop, he simply punches Dio, no hax, no nothing, and Dio is instantly atomized just by the AP gap which tbh is kind of the MOST in character thing for Ben to do as Alien X

 

[manu_zarri]

So now we are using Pre-Absorption Dio?

 

[StrymULTRA]

So now we are using Pre-Absorption Dio?

Yeah, Post Stomps

 

[Cloozuma]

Hmm what are the wincons?

 

[StrymULTRA]

HA DIO can Time Stop + Corrupt/Soul Steal/Erase (All of these 3 of a 2-A range)

AX instead can Mind Hax or Rewind Time from its Pocket Dimension ot the point before DIO stopped time, which is separated from the Universe, trought a wave, however the wave being able to act in the Stopped Time is up to debate.

 

[Cloozuma]

Yeah DIO OH takes this. Given that his TS only needs a thought, he can just EE Alien X then proceeds to deactivate time stop, unless there's something needed for DIO's TS.

Also Alien X needing to wait for the 3 personalities to make a decision is a thing.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also Alien X needing to wait for the 3 personalities to make a decision is a thing.

That's not a thing anymore in Omniverse and SBA makes the Omniverse version used over the UA one

 

[Cloozuma]

That's not a thing anymore in Omniverse and SBA makes the Omniverse version used over the UA one

Uhh wasn't it? I watched the episode and there were still multiple personalities

 

[StrymULTRA]

Uhh wasn't it? I watched the episode and there were still multiple personalities

Not anymore as I said

 

[Greenshifter]

There are still multiple personalities but Ben “got the keys to Alien X” which means he doesn’t need to debate with them anymore to do stuff.

Given that his TS only needs a thought

Just to be clear the pocket dimension is unaffected by the time stop and one could argue that Alien X can reverse time in the universe during Dio’s time stop to before he stopped.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Just to be clear the pocket dimension is unaffected by the time stop and one could argue that Alien X can reverse time in the universe during Dio’s time stop to before he stopped.

Question, how can they perceive the time being stopped in the PD?

 

[Greenshifter]

kind of the MOST in character thing

I mean he uses more hax than usual though. From what we’ve seen against fodder he first haxes (mindhax and TK for instance) and then starts punching.

 

[Greenshifter]

Question, how can they perceive the time being stopped in the PD?

Good question, I think there would be a discrepancy between the things Alien X’s body is supposed to do after certain thoughts from Ben and what he actually does (nothing). Meaning they’d be aware that something’s off. Another way to see it would be like looking inside a time stopped universe from the outside, which would probably be the same as what people who resist a time stop see.

 

[FRIMI]

Question, how can they perceive the time being stopped in the PD?

well any interaction with the time stream is detectable in the ben 10 verse

 

[StrymULTRA]

well any interaction with the time stream is detectable in the ben 10 verse

How is detectable tho. I'd need more details

 

[FRIMI]

Greenshifter, I'm pretty sure you can explain the specific applications of the sotobro effect better than me. Last I remember, Alien X was able to experience the sotobro effect, right?

 

[Greenshifter]

specific applications of the sotobro

You mean the fanon that the Ben 10 fans brought up after everyone was salty from Ben losing to Green Lantern, instead of just arguing acausality type 2 or 4 via WoG?

Clockwork: Hey! Whoa! Who's this?

Ben 10,000: Clockwork. He's got time powers -- speed-up, slow-down, forward, back.

Professor Paradox: Because Eon is another version of Ben. he may sense the resulting Sotobro effect.

Ben 23: "Sotobro Effect"?

Ben 10,000: A sort of ripple in the timestream that Clockwork causes when he uses his powers.

Clockwork: Then we'd better not risk it.


(No Watch Ben transforms into Clockwork)

Vilgax: A Chronosapien!

Clockwork: Here goes nothing!

[ Cranking ]

[ Biomnitrix powers down ]

Vilgax: How...?

Clockwork: Let me guess -- Chronosapien time bomb? Paradox was right. Once I transformed, I could see the Sotobro Effect. Just figured I'd suck the ripple back in.


Explanation: It seems that in Ben 10 time related abilities cause an effect that other people who have time abilities can detect and reverse. I don't this is too relevant here tbh but maybe it's a bonus for AX, Serena was able to sense everyone in the universe dying by the Annihilaargh after all so he has some good cosmic awareness.

But like even if you were a normal being and you were to look through a portal at a realm stuck in time then chances are that you'll see it as if you resist, cause I really don't see how you'd see it otherwise (although I'm not ruling out the possibility of Dio looking as if he just got infinite speed, just seems weird to me due to how fiction treats relative time after a specific event). (If you really want to break your mind then maybe Alien X's body follows the flow of time of the PD due to his acausality type 2 to the point he literally just blinks out of existence during the time stop and reappears the moment after it deactivates)

 

[StrymULTRA]

Is Time Stop included as an "alteration of the time stream"?

 

[Greenshifter]

"A sort of ripple in the timestream that Clockwork causes when he uses his powers."

Clockwork has time stop, despite not demonstrating it, so yes.

Also just to be clear Alien X never appeared in the episode where they talked about the Sotobro effect (so he obviously didn't react to it), he just has the best cosmic awareness in the verse, that's all.

 

[StrymULTRA]

So AX seeing what happens in the TS is legit.

Now, can the wave move in the TS despite the potency of the latter?

 

[Greenshifter]

Now, can the wave move in the TS despite the potency of the latter?

Million dollar question, the thing is what happens to the wave when it hits the layer of time stop? Like if AX keeps sending out more waves, then I don't think time can contain the waves anymore that are targeting itself so it might start to break down (like it's very nature, so like if Alien X makes it so time doesn't function like the time Dio is used to manipulating then his ability might just straight up fail, similar to how he can't directly manipulate mana but has to alter the universe in order to be able to do so, but in reverse. This is applied on his page as information manipulation btw), the question is how much "time" it takes for time to give up basically, although if Dio hits the wave then he'll probably be set back to his previous position as well (this is starting to sound like GER lol).

 

[StrymULTRA]

Bump