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Yea I vote inconclusive as well due to Aizen not being able to put Toneri down due to huge AP/durability advantage and likewise Toneri not being able to put Aizen down due to his Regenerationn.
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Aizen vs Toneri Otsutsuki
- Thread starter Shadowbokunohero
- Start date
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ItalianGuy1234 said:
Fragor didn't show anything above Large Island Level if we are generous, saying that he burned Daigai Ichigo's arm only means that Daigai Ichigo is Large Island Level in durability bro.
This is a lot more destructive than anything shown by Aizen and Kenpachi and yet Naruto survived it. Aizen can throw all the Fragor that he wants, it will be the equivalent that Shukaku does the same with Bijudama and that isn't Shukaku (Ichibi) has the least chance against Toneri.
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I'm giving this to Toneri via hax. Aizen has no response to Toneri's Puppet Cursing Sphere (What he uses on Hinata). KS is useless here in a 1v1. Toneri can't kill Aizen, but he can make him a slave.
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@Dariel
That's not how it works. It's DC you're talking about. It's different from AP.
That's not how it works. It's DC you're talking about. It's different from AP.
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TheFinalOrder said:
How in the hell is KS useless here?
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@Aizenishere
KS can't manipulate the ability to sense energy, Yamamoto even demonstrated this.
KS can't manipulate the ability to sense energy, Yamamoto even demonstrated this.
- Yes, I know, Aizen's reiatsu was only flowing in him due to stabbing him, but, if you go back to the scene, emphasis was only placed on Yamamoto possibly being mistaken if he were only using his eyes, thus, nothing factually backs up Aizen manipulating perception of energy.
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"Even if Aizen could, it's again, 1 on 1. So, he can't disguise his energy as anyones elses" See you just admitted he can... Otherwise what's the point of using it on Shinigami who can sense beings with Reiatsu? They didn't just mistake Momo for Aizen because they have a similar amount of reiatsu. So yes actually only reason Yamo could sense Aizen was because the bloody source of it was inside him. Who said? Why's it have to be another individual? Aizens reiatsu compared to Momo is already in the clouds.. If he manipulates energy sensing there's no reason he can't appear to be as useless as a rock and a rock look like him with his level of reiatu. After all.. he can't make an illusion out of anything but if he has something he can do whatever the **** he wants with it. Take Harribel as an example.. She thought she was confronting Aizen. I didn't see an individual after the illusion shattered. He ****** over many that can sense being with spiritual pressure when he alone (aside from Ichigo of course) is the one with the most of it.. So it's hard to mistake his level of reiatsu with anyone or thing.
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Burning Full Fingers said:
Yes I know, by powerscaling Aizen is such a thing, but not its Fragor. Aizen Fragors have much less power than their AP.
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As much as we know it's unlikely Aizen will use KS here, Would Toneri even use drain on Aizen here? Seriously. I'm pretty sure they're both so arrogant they'd enter a fist fight til the end of time before Aizen fires Fragors and Toneri uses his Wheelie.
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There is also something I wanted to point out, Toneri doesn't need to be a sensory ninja to face Aizen also. As a demonstration of this in chapter 616, when Naruto goes BM, Sasuke and Co who are all a continent away, can feel Naruto Chakra despite not being sensory Ninja.
They could percieve 6-C levels of Energy, despite not being sensory Ninja. Aizen here is putting out well above 6-C energy levels. He couldn't fool Toneri if he tried, he'd still be percieved.
They could percieve 6-C levels of Energy, despite not being sensory Ninja. Aizen here is putting out well above 6-C energy levels. He couldn't fool Toneri if he tried, he'd still be percieved.
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Do you mean it could be higher if he was Relativistic for example?
That would help but no I meant the resizing of seireirei would probably gove him moon level for that feat
That would help but no I meant the resizing of seireirei would probably gove him moon level for that feat
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@TheFinalOrder
**** yea he could be perceived... Until he used KS in which case no. No he would not at that point. Which i've explained above.
**** yea he could be perceived... Until he used KS in which case no. No he would not at that point. Which i've explained above.
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Aizenishere is right about the energy sensing aswell. Shunsui explained how shinigami see with their eyes and sensing of reiatsu. Yet KS is considered to render the entire gotei 13 useless.
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@Dariel
DC doesn't matter here.
In Dragonball a punch that damages a small area could be 3-A in AP but far less in DC. If it has the AP it's gonna hurt.. that's that.
DC doesn't matter here.
In Dragonball a punch that damages a small area could be 3-A in AP but far less in DC. If it has the AP it's gonna hurt.. that's that.
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@Aizenishere
I May be wrong. You do present a good case, though, that alone isn't sound enough as you're assuming they're using Energy sensing as a primary means if fighting, though i am remembering something that Shunsui explained to Lille about shinigami. Can't remember in detail, but I'll concede.
Though along those same lines, using the same logic, one can also assume that because the Otsutsuki were versed in Genjutsu, they had teachings that allowed for resisting such things, especially as the Branch family was in control of the Otsutsuki in the moon as a whole. I can easily assume, like with most Earth based Ninja, Toneri would be able to tell he is in an illusion. He'd still be able to pinpoint Aizen through his methods of absorbtion.
I May be wrong. You do present a good case, though, that alone isn't sound enough as you're assuming they're using Energy sensing as a primary means if fighting, though i am remembering something that Shunsui explained to Lille about shinigami. Can't remember in detail, but I'll concede.
Though along those same lines, using the same logic, one can also assume that because the Otsutsuki were versed in Genjutsu, they had teachings that allowed for resisting such things, especially as the Branch family was in control of the Otsutsuki in the moon as a whole. I can easily assume, like with most Earth based Ninja, Toneri would be able to tell he is in an illusion. He'd still be able to pinpoint Aizen through his methods of absorbtion.
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@LAS
Then Yeah, I'm wrong here. I concede that sensing argument.
Then Yeah, I'm wrong here. I concede that sensing argument.
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Aizenishere said:
No friend, that Ichigo is such a tier in AP does not mean it is in durability, so to say that Fragor is for it is a faulty reasoning, basically use the fallacy of Begging the question to support the power of the Fragor. The durability of Post-Dangai Ichigo isn't the tier they want to make happen and therefore the Fragor either.
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@Dariel
Except that's now how bleach works.. AP = Dura. It's why Yhwach isn't a glass cannon and why Ichigo and Aizen got upgraded.
Except that's now how bleach works.. AP = Dura. It's why Yhwach isn't a glass cannon and why Ichigo and Aizen got upgraded.
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I dont understand what he said but the way reiatsu works means equal ap and dura.
Also change my vote to inconclusive aswell
Also change my vote to inconclusive aswell
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Oh yeah? Well I guess there is a series of calculations and information that justify such a thing, please facilitate them.
Likewise, the durability of several characters in Bleach is given by a series of powerscaling full of incongruities, such as Kenpachi having Multi Continent level durability to survive a Gremmy explosion, same explosion that is never Multi Continent Level, the only attack shown by Gremmy of that level is its giant meteorite, starting from there the base of other profiles is just as bad.
Likewise, the durability of several characters in Bleach is given by a series of powerscaling full of incongruities, such as Kenpachi having Multi Continent level durability to survive a Gremmy explosion, same explosion that is never Multi Continent Level, the only attack shown by Gremmy of that level is its giant meteorite, starting from there the base of other profiles is just as bad.
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That justify AP=Dura? Have you watched Bleach?
Kenpachi has his rating for casually slicing said meteor. And if he can do the damage he can tank just as much.
If you have such an issue with how the Bleach profiles are, stop derailing this thread and make a CRT thread. Or just go into the current bleach revision threads and find the reasoning for the upgrades etc.
Kenpachi has his rating for casually slicing said meteor. And if he can do the damage he can tank just as much.
If you have such an issue with how the Bleach profiles are, stop derailing this thread and make a CRT thread. Or just go into the current bleach revision threads and find the reasoning for the upgrades etc.
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Yes I've seen Bleach.
No, that logic is absurd, that you can damage something doesn't mean you can tank it. Do you really use a reasoning like that here? If Kenpachi can tank some of the level of the meteorite it gives proof that it is so, don't come with that kind of totally fallacious argument. This is not how things work, by damaging something you don't magically receive the ability to tank yourself that same thing. Show us the feat of Kenpachi by tanking some Multi Continent Level attack so that he has durability of that level.
Thank you, I will make such a thread in revision content forum, however I will not stop pointing out something that is wrong just because it says it in the profile even when it is wrong.
The Fragor isn't Multi Continent Level in any way, even the reasoning that puts the profile is absurd. The Fragor is MCL AP because it damages Ichigo, and Ichigo is MCL durability because it supports the Fragor WTF! from the Moon you can see that this argument is illogical, two statements that justify one another, is a tremendous fallacy.
No, that logic is absurd, that you can damage something doesn't mean you can tank it. Do you really use a reasoning like that here? If Kenpachi can tank some of the level of the meteorite it gives proof that it is so, don't come with that kind of totally fallacious argument. This is not how things work, by damaging something you don't magically receive the ability to tank yourself that same thing. Show us the feat of Kenpachi by tanking some Multi Continent Level attack so that he has durability of that level.
Thank you, I will make such a thread in revision content forum, however I will not stop pointing out something that is wrong just because it says it in the profile even when it is wrong.
The Fragor isn't Multi Continent Level in any way, even the reasoning that puts the profile is absurd. The Fragor is MCL AP because it damages Ichigo, and Ichigo is MCL durability because it supports the Fragor WTF! from the Moon you can see that this argument is illogical, two statements that justify one another, is a tremendous fallacy.
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If you cant understand that ap isnt dc you are wasting your time.
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The only one illogical here is you screaming NLF. Monster Aizen is High 6-A scaling to Kenpachi and Dangai Ichigo is High 6-A scaling to Aizen.
Ok you've seen bleach.. so then you know how this works since any fight involving Kenpachi and a few instances with Aizen show that Reiatsu translates to AP and Durability. Yes we do use reasoning like that here when it is the case. Right will by this wikis standards the only one wrong here is you unless you can prove otherwise in a CRT not a vs thread. quit whining and stop derailing this thread. Btw wish you the best of luck in your CRT m8. I hope you find the closure you seek
Ok you've seen bleach.. so then you know how this works since any fight involving Kenpachi and a few instances with Aizen show that Reiatsu translates to AP and Durability. Yes we do use reasoning like that here when it is the case. Right will by this wikis standards the only one wrong here is you unless you can prove otherwise in a CRT not a vs thread. quit whining and stop derailing this thread. Btw wish you the best of luck in your CRT m8. I hope you find the closure you seek
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Do you understand what a fallacy is? literally I don't mention at any time NLF, my friend there are many types of fallacy not only that for love of everything holy.
Sorry my friend, saying that things work in a magical and exclusive way in Bleach doesn't support what you say. First you say that if Kenpachi destroys anything then he is able to resist it and now you jump to that in the cases of Aizen and Kenpachi eiatsu is translated to durability in a magical way, demonstrates with evidence what you say that is the basics when debates. Shows where it is appreciated that Kenpachi has a durability of the level you say, that will receive the name of proof, which is something that is used when you want to sustain what you say, launch the claim that things work well just because yes don't have anything of validity. Show the feat of Kenpachi resisting an attack of that level, things aren't in a way just because you say it.
Fragor can't be MCL because it damages Ichigo and in turn Ichigo is MCL because Fragor resists, anyone can notice the illogicality of that reasoning.
That is so unless you prove that one of the two is by a test that confirms it, I hope you can supply it and not believe that your word is enough and enough to support what you say. Thank you very much I appreciate your wishes, you better brother.
Sorry my friend, saying that things work in a magical and exclusive way in Bleach doesn't support what you say. First you say that if Kenpachi destroys anything then he is able to resist it and now you jump to that in the cases of Aizen and Kenpachi eiatsu is translated to durability in a magical way, demonstrates with evidence what you say that is the basics when debates. Shows where it is appreciated that Kenpachi has a durability of the level you say, that will receive the name of proof, which is something that is used when you want to sustain what you say, launch the claim that things work well just because yes don't have anything of validity. Show the feat of Kenpachi resisting an attack of that level, things aren't in a way just because you say it.
Fragor can't be MCL because it damages Ichigo and in turn Ichigo is MCL because Fragor resists, anyone can notice the illogicality of that reasoning.
That is so unless you prove that one of the two is by a test that confirms it, I hope you can supply it and not believe that your word is enough and enough to support what you say. Thank you very much I appreciate your wishes, you better brother.
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- Thread starter
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Dude... AP/DC work the same way, heck not even counting bleach.. most verses, if you can destroy a City it's likely that you can tank it, 99.9 percent of the profiles work like this. Bleach's energy like most other shounen can be used to improve your physical stats, or allow you to release a burst of energy or create techniques ect, unless it's specifically shown that the said character is glass canon which in Bleach is completely impossible as that's how their mechanics work, if their Reatsu allows High 6-A striking strength then it will translate to Durability by default.
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@Dariel
I saw fallacy and jumped on the closest abbreviaton I could think of to get my point accross.. Which clearly it hasn't. nd mb on the wrong term but you got the point with that at least.
M8.. I'm doing my best to explain it to you.. It all goes hand in hand. I'm trying to explain how things are viewed in this Wiki these tiers don't just fall out of the sky. It's not my fault that you can't comprehend it. So what I advise is you make a CRT and hopefully either whatever you argue get's accepted or someone explains better than me why these characters are the tiers they are.
TLDR: Make a CRT...
I saw fallacy and jumped on the closest abbreviaton I could think of to get my point accross.. Which clearly it hasn't. nd mb on the wrong term but you got the point with that at least.
M8.. I'm doing my best to explain it to you.. It all goes hand in hand. I'm trying to explain how things are viewed in this Wiki these tiers don't just fall out of the sky. It's not my fault that you can't comprehend it. So what I advise is you make a CRT and hopefully either whatever you argue get's accepted or someone explains better than me why these characters are the tiers they are.
TLDR: Make a CRT...
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@Shadow
I mean.. wow that was actually a pretty good summary.
Thanks
I mean.. wow that was actually a pretty good summary.
Thanks
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Aizen wins. Aizen will just keep getting stronger after taking damage. Toneri has no seals that are suitable enough to seal Aizen with.
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