Aizen vs Madara

[Aizenishere]

@Lorenzo

Because his final hogyokou form was stated to surpass all hollows and shinigami, we scale him to Kenpachi under the assumption he is stronger than that.

I didn't ask if he'd blitz to kill. I asked because if Madara does use Limbo Clones. Having the speed advantage to essentially ignore them would come in handy.

I think you mean why didn't just transform. Since I don't think he needs to adapt to blunt force. His healing already rendered that bit null as we saw haha. My answer to that would be plot since Kubo felt the need to not fill us in on anything aside from "he still has KS". I suppose you're right but I mean isn't it worse if the hogyokou had no involvement in him becoming hilariously more powerful? So then what the hogyokou spikes him past his limit then he trains mentality to reach his new limit? That sounds horrible (amazing) but horrible. What I'm getting at is it just looks like Aizen gets a zenkai boost basically. But he was never actually at risk of dying in his fight with Yhwach so I don't think it would warrant an adaptation even if he did still have the capability.

Making it..

 

[Litentric_Teon]

@Lorenzo

My fault bud, lol. It sounded similar to what Seth had said in his Kefla vs Anilaza video. I don't think he's a ****** or anything, lol. I give him his respect for he's been doing it for a long time. It's simply that most YouTubers don't have calculations as in depth as the ones on here or the OBD. It really hinders quite a few of them, imo. But he does, at least, have great dragon ball knowledge in general.

@Aizen

Meh, I guess I can't say it's mental training either. We don't really know what it is that caused him to get so much stronger. And as for Aizen not being at the risk of dying...he should've kept on fighting then, lmao. The Hogyoku should've healed him the way he did after being hit by the Mugetsu. But no, a hand through the chest puts him out of commission. Smh. I know the ending was rushed, but I would have much preferred a scenario where Ichigo and Aizen defeated Yhwach, rather than him being ended by a plot arrow that he should have saw coming in the first place.

Plot! Every anime/manga/manwha's best friend.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

the arrow was an idea all the way from the fullbring arc tho. like, it wasn't just made up outta nowhere

 

[Aizenishere]

@Litentric

I mean he did kind of shrug it off.. whilst the hand was in his chest he was smiling casually and said "so you thought you were looking at Ichigo Kurosaki? Fascinating" Another to take into account of course his whole plan was to wait on Ichigo. For whatever reason Kubo made Aizen very non-confrontational.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

@Lorenzo

The guy has ridiculous precognition. He should've seen it coming. The arrow was never stated to be able to null powers without hitting someone. (Also, that's news to me. Props to Kubo)

@Aizen

I'm not sure about shrug it off, lol. Folk have smiled while dying before. Not that he was dying, but I mean, folk reach differently when getting punched through the chest. Some scream. Some cry. Some die...some smile.

Yep, gotta wait on that main character. Can't move on without him unless he, ya know, dies.

 

[Aizenishere]

@Litentric

Right but after Ichigo did join the scene Aizen and him were lounging around having a casual convoe before he got absorbed. Point being there was no real threat on his life or rather to him at all really. For whatever reason he didn't regen but he was in no danger, and if he was in pain well shit he did a REAL god job of making seem like nothing more than a sting. "Oh you know my arms chilling over there, and my hearts oveeerrrr ahh there haHA yea..."

Yea I'm still confused about that. SOSUKE AIZEN. "Alright it's time for my ultimate keikaku..." *waits on Ichigo*

 

[Litentric_Teon]

@Lorenzo

I'm just gonna keep dying over hear from reading that.

@Aizen

Guess I mean to die today. Reading that is killing me too.

 

[Aizenishere]

What about that has you dead today?

 

[Litentric_Teon]

That image of him chilling with one arm and his heart just beating in the corner, giving him a mean side eye.

 

[Tincan123]

Both aizen and madara are wasted villians. They both had great potential but kubo made aizen the biggest troll in shonen jump and kishimoto replanced madara with a freaking rabbit. Inconclusion they both suck they should learn from uncle reinhard eugen tristan heydrich how to become a true villian

 

[GoldTempest]

Oh no, Seth the Programmer? Just no.

In my honest opinion, since I"m well versed in both of these series, these two are unbelievably even.

Kyouka Suigetsu's Hypnosis is absolutely perfect, and Aizen has like four defensive Kidou spells that he can use. Not to mention, I've seen him use the electric Kido spell on a massive scale, and seeing as how he didn't even use the incantation it's implied that it can be much stronger.

With that said, between Aizen and Madara casting illusions on one another, it becomes entirely dependent on who outlasts the other. Madara will dispell any and all illusions, Aizen will just cast them again since, once you've seen Kyouka Suigetsu once, you're always capable of being under its influence upon activation.

Going a little further, I don't see an end to the fight if we're going with their final forms (which are essentially immortal). However, it is implied that Madara can be killed in his end-game form before he turned into some stupid Rabbit Alien Grandma. So it can be said that Aizen will outlast him in a fight of endurance.

That's going off whatever is on the top of my head. I've read the thread up to a certain point but stopped halfway through when things trailed off and I just wanted to get my point across.

So my vote goes to Aizen.

Is there any evidence to combat my claims?

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

I have one. if we are using butterfly aizen, he has neither the speed, power, AP, defense, and basically allllll his stats<<< madara. if we use the supposedly stronger aizen (the one that became yawbach's throat puncher lvl by just counting sheep in his chair), he still wont win. he has likely lost the speed and power he had (likely. cuz IF -IF!!- he still has the hogyouku, then he can teleport and shit), as well as his other possible means to win. another thing is: he isn't frieza, who has only trained in his life for 4 months (like, ever). aizen kinda reached all the possible ceilings when talking bout limits, so his growth in the chair is most likely skill related (aka, he went over his techniques to find flaws, made new kidos maybe, played some chess with himself as to not get bored -but since he won, he got mad that he lost and killed himself, but he was stupid thou lol, since he is kinda immortal. foolish aizen- etc.)

 

[Aizenishere]

@Lorenzo

We're not using butterfly. We're using the strongest forms of both combatents. Even in the Anime he lost teleportation in his final form so it's not suprising he no longer has it. He is still faster than Madara. Mach 4000 to Madaras Mach 3400 iirc. He showed that against Yhwach. And he's stronger than before so idk why you're saying he lost any speed and power (Unless you're referring to abilities in which case all he's missing is some nukes)

 

[TataHakai]

Madara was mach 3400? Nani? Juubidama has a mach 5000 calc on OBD

 

[TataHakai]

Not to mention Madara at Full power slapped away Sasuke who could Blitz a Naruto who Dodged a light speed attack from Point blank range

But that's a can of worms i don't want to nor need to open

Lol @ Aizen being faster than Madara

 

[Aizenishere]

He is though.. At least according to the wiki.

Massively Hypersonic+ (Can keep up with Naruto and Sasuke simultaneously; Around Mach 3277)

and Aizen indirectly scales to ichibei iirc whos Mach 3995. So yea he is faster.

If you want to play the light speed card then Seths video points out both of them are FTL. Of course if that's the route you wanna take Temari is also 3-A

 

[TataHakai]

Well seth is a dumbass, thankfully i don't need to look at his video to know that Naruto dodged a Light speed attack from like 2 meters away which is Relativistic whichever way you look at it

Considering much weaker characters are already close to Sub Relativistic and Above that and Guy himself could move at "Arguably" Relativistic speeds it would fit in with the Scaling too considering Naruto had the best reactions amongst the characters at the time

Anyway Madara is much faster, hell the Kages in the Last movie could react to mach 7500 Meteors and Madara scales way above them.

 

[Aizenishere]

Then prove the wiki wrong and make a CRT.

 

[Aizenishere]

"Seths a dumbass"

I mean he supports you in that Madara is FTL.. It's just if we take that route Aizen is also FTL. No matter how you look at it they're comparable when it comes to speed.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

pretty much. seth is a ******* ******, and the wiki makes no use of context, they only look at feats.

 

[Bepo4151]

Well seth is a dumbass, thankfully i don't need to look at his video to know that Naruto dodged a Light speed attack from like 2 meters away which is Relativistic whichever way you look at it

Except in the manga he dodged the swing of Madara head, not the lightfang itself.

Sage Art Storm Release Light Fang in the manga.

 

[DMUA]

Banned Topic. It's been debunked multiple times.

"The possibility for Madara Uchiha and the rest of the Naruto franchise characters to move at light speed has already been discussed and debunked repeatedly. Currently, any repetition of said discussion is highly annoying and not subject to discussion."

 

[TataHakai]

Well seth is a dumbass, thankfully i don't need to look at his video to know that Naruto dodged a Light speed attack from like 2 meters away which is Relativistic whichever way you look at it

Except in the manga he dodged the swing of Madara head, not the lightfang itself.

Sage Art Storm Release Light Fang in the manga.

Or Madara shot it at Naruto, Naruto dodged and Madara swung

Which the Positioning prior to the dodge supports

Which the Anime supports, likeMultiple times

Hell even the way the Rod is cutsupports the fact that Madara shot it at Naruto first, then after he dodged he swung it to catch Naruto

Unless you want to assume he swung it before it got to Naruto which would only mean Madara can swing his head before a light speed attack travels 2 meters which would be Relativistic/Sub Relativistic+ nonetheless

Point.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

@tatahakai... dude.. uve just debunked life lol. but yeah, pretty good point. im not goo with math and such, im only good with biology, so this is outta my league, but if u ever wanna know why tha **** that squirrel that was ran over is still moving in the middle of the street, then I can help.

 

[Aizenishere]

Again if that's how you wanna play Aizens also FTL so there is no real advantage given in speed either way.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

yeah, but what would even make light speed? he has no feats to put him. madara isn't light speed. far from it, but he can attack and dodge at said speed, while aizen cant. for one, aizen cant even damage him. that cut to the throat was so much pis its sad.

 

[Aizenishere]

No he can't. That's why it's a banned topic on this site. And if you say he can then we're essentially playing by Seths rules and he explains why Aizen is FTL.

"Can't even damage him"

I mean.. why not? If it's because of the immortality then neither of them are going to kill eachother.