Accelerator AP scaling back or not (continued from other thread)

[Scrlk666777]

This is a continuation of this Thread:3333544#377 as it was getting too long and since everything else wa agreed to except two things, i thought it best to continue this in a new thread.

The main debate is whether or not we should scale back Accelerator's 5-B key to Pre-headshot or not as well as the speed.

So should be upgrade Accelerator's pre-headshot to "At least 5-B, likely far higher" or keep it at "7-B, 6-A with borrowing earth's energy"

And should we keep the speed at High Hypersonic+ with Massively Hypersonic reactions or upgrade his speed to Sub-rel for pre-headshot?

Those who agree: Accelerate420, Zensum, TIHYDDWBE, Lazyhunter (AP), Scril666777

Those who disagree: Don'ttalkDT.

Those who are neutral: Malox1696, Lazyhunter (Speed)

If I missed anyone out please let you know and I'll add your name to the list of agree, disagree or neutral.

 

[Accelerate420]

I think Malox agreed, didn't he? I'll wait for his input though since I don't wanna assume. We should backscale everything including speed, yeah.

 

[Scrlk666777]

From what I remember I think he said he's okay with just upgrading the rellection to High 1-C. He might have changed his mind, if he does then I will change it to agree. I don't think he has disagreed though.

 

[Malox1696]

im ok with everything, im neutral on scaling the AP as it's not really needed thanks to reflection offensive property (up to h1c scaling for melee)

 

[Accelerate420]

We should make a CRT for that later once this finally gets settled.

 

[LazyHunter]

I have always been of the opinion that trying to assign a fixed value to Accelerator's AP is silly. From the start in OT3, his attacks hit exactly as hard as he wants them to hit. Like his redirection, his AP should be measured by the highest amount of energy he has been shown to manage for attacks, and since there's no explicit increase in power of his base form's vector manipulation (what's more, there was a downgrade in terms of calculation prowess), the current AP should be scaled backwards just like his redirection is. So I agree with this part.

Neutral on the Speed, I personally disagree with this rating but I know Kamachi's issues with speed in the series so I won't argue for it or against it.

 

[Accelerate420]

I have always been of the opinion that trying to assign a fixed value to Accelerator's AP is silly. From the start in OT3, his attacks hit exactly as hard as he wants them to hit. Like his redirection, his AP should be measured by the highest amount of energy he has been shown to manage for attacks, and since there's no explicit increase in power of his base form's vector manipulation (what's more, there was a downgrade in terms of calculation prowess), the current AP should be scaled backwards just like his redirection is. So I agree with this part.
Neutral on the Speed, I personally disagree with this rating but I know Kamachi's issues with speed in the series so I won't argue for it or against it.

Pretty much this. Accel is a tricky dude to AP since he's shown he can control the magnitude of his vectors as well and, in NT22, it literally states that 'he can only prioritize what is there, not what isn't. So he's reliant on external energy and manipulating that (or his own for that matter) so he's always been willy-washy in terms of AP since it would technically always scale to who he is fighting in most cases.

I think if we're backscaling AP, we may as well do speed as well but if it's a deal breaker I can settle on AP even if, ya know, they should both be backscalable.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Yeah, speed is a bit of a tricky one in Index, espeically when the feats of a character can show otherwise; saints are the prime example of this. Kamachi usually says the saints are only faster than the speed of sound, which if I remember correctly, is supersonic but saints have shown actual feats of being MHS.

Accel's speed has mostly been described as being instant, which is extremely vague since instant is open for interpretation.

 

[Accelerate420]

I think it's because Accel's speed is as fast as he needs it to be really. Unlike Saints he does not risk self destruction so he can keep up with even Nerfed Magic Gods and bulldoze through them and what not. However I was always of the opinion that his own kinetic vision itself has its form of limits, but that doesn't matter because 'lol vector field and calcing where imma be if i go x speed'

 

[Scrlk666777]

That's true and on top off that Elizard couldn't react to him punching her even though she managed to easily react to the on coming attack of the electron beam.

 

[Malox1696]

Neutral on the Speed, I personally disagree with this rating but I know Kamachi's issues with speed in the series so I won't argue for it or against it.

i actually agree on speed, even leaving aside the calculation, we know that KL which is Massively Hypersonic

can't even target coronzon with his spells (turn to 0), while accel could keep up with her

 

[Scrlk666777]

More importantly she couldn't react to him kicking her through several walls of concrete.

 

[LazyHunter]

If everyone else wants to scale Speed backwards I have nothing against it, I just pointed out that personally I'm giving up on characters' speeds in the series making sense so I'm not arguing for any of the sides on that part.

Obviously Accelerator can choose how fast he moves (and I guess somewhat boost his reactions alongside it, since he's not just shooting himself forwards, he obviously can react and take actions at supersonic speeds), it's just annoying that the speed disparity between pre-headshot Accelerator's feats and statements, who IIRC were "can move several times faster than a normal human/can move faster than a car", and current Accelerator keeps getting bigger.

 

[Malox1696]

yea maybe scaling speed pre head shoot might not work

 

[Scrlk666777]

The thing is back then Kamachi very much was iffy when it came to speed and pretty much said what sounded right.

I mean Mikoto's lighting spears were said to be lightning speed but no feats were ever really shown to back this up. I think when it comes to speed, it's better to find actual feats rather than go by Kamachi;s word here. Although the problem here is that Pre-headshot Accel doesn't have any feats except Kamachi;s words lol.

 

[Malox1696]

well we have the lol problem of accel not being able to catch up to an AC car in NT 1

 

[Scrlk666777]

That is wrong though.

It had nothing to do with speed of why he couldn't catch up but merely because the AC car went through a tunnel and Accel didn't want to go in with the possibility of having his choker interrupted. Which he stated could have caused his death.

 

[Accelerate420]

Kamachi has always been finnicky on speed. The White Queen for example is basically hyped to be MG tier or above, tossing universes casually with physical strength and what not, yet her biggest speed feat is keeping up with a fighter jet. It's kinda funny.

If Accel couldn't keep up with the car there's no way he could've parried Curtana either. Ya know, so obviously the Car in NT1 is irrelevant since there was circumstances behind it. Because. You know, Accel was stated he could casually dog-fight AC fighter jets which travel at crazy Mach speeds.

The way I see it: Pre-Accel never had to compete with speeds beyond automotives or bullet timing since he could just chill. Post-Headshot liked to drag things out a bit when chasing/moving for the fear factor, but current Accel is pretty much 'I'll use what I need to'. Hence why the gap seems to keep getting bigger because Accel's mind-set changes. But there's no reason for Pre not to be able to go as fast as Post because of the reasons that have already been stated. Oh, and, obviously because Kamachi can't have Accelerator speed blitzing everyone he comes across. Even if he kinda did it to Elizard and Coronzon, and at times Neph.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Yeah, Kamachi is quite finnicky on speed.

But yeah, Pre-headshot Accel didn't really need to rely on speed and he pretty much relied on his reflection mostly. Also let's not forget that he was quite lazy at times and he liked to be dramatic. I think the best speed feat that Pre-headshot Accel had was when he caught up with the Sister in mere seconds, the one who tried to shoot him from streets away.

And yeah, the AC car had circumstances behind it, the circumstance being the tunnel.

I think truthfully along with changed mind-set Accelerator has also come up against faster characters.I mean Mikoto, the Sisters, Touma, Amata and even those in his manga all pretty much had human level speed. The first time he truly came up against a character with great speed was Gabriel and Kazakiri at the end of OT and since then he's came up against much faster characters, which seem to be growing in speed everytime.

 

[Scrlk666777]

bump

 

[Scrlk666777]

bump

 

[DestinyDude0]

Agree /