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ACAUSALITY TYPE 4 IN T7

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Rendynoc0unter

Rendynoc0unter

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I want to try to get Acausality type 4 on trinity seven.
OK, go ahead

•Magus are people who study supernatural phenomena OUTSIDE the laws of the world•
Feats :
TYPICALLY CALLED "MAGES," THIS IS THE GENERAL TERM FOR THOSE WHO STUDY THE WAY OF "MAGIC." THEY LEAD ORDINARY LIVES, BUT THEIR MAIN JOB IS THE INVESTIGATION AND DECODING OF UNSOLVED MYSTERIES THAT DEFY LOGIC AND MYSTERIOUS INCIDENTS THOUGHT TO BE RELATED TO MAGIC. BECAUSE THEY STUDY SUPERNATURAL PHENOMENON THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF THE WORLD'S LAWS AND TAKE PLACE IN PARALLEL UNIVERSES AND ALTERNATE DIMENSIONS, ONE OF A MAGUS'S FUNDAMENTAL QUALITIES IS THAT THEY HAVE ABOVE AVERAGE SPIRIT AND ASSERTIVENESS. ALMOST ALL OF THEM POSSESS A WAY OF THINKING OUTSIDE OF USUAL HUMAN ETHICS. WITHIN INSTITUTIONS LIKE THE ROYAL BIBLIA ACADEMY THAT CULTIVATE MAGUSES, THEY ARE HELD TO ABIDE BY THE MINIMUM OF ETHICS.

•Magus are not bound by the physical laws of the world•
Feats :
THE FORM MAGUSES TAKE USING THE POWER OF THEIR GRIMOIRE TO "EXECUTE" THEIR RESEARCH THEMA. THE MAGUS IMAGINES THE FORM THAT SUITS THEIR THEMA AND "TRANSFORMS" INTO IT. THE GARB IS REBUILT OUT OF THE CLOTHES THEY WERE ORIGINALLY WEARING, SO IF IT GETS DAMAGED, THEIR ORIGINAL CLOTHING DOES AS WELL. WHEN THEY RECOVER THEIR MAGIC, THEY CAN CONVERT OTHER MATERIALS AND MAGIC POWERS INTO THEIR MAGUS MODE CLOTHING. UNDER THESE CONDITIONS, THEY BECOME BEINGS BETTER VERSED IN "MAGIC" THAN ORDINARY PEOPLE. BECAUSE OF THAT, THEY ARE NO LONGER BOUND BY THE PHYSICAL LAWS OF THE HUMAN WORLD BUT CAN ALSO NOT USE MAN-MADE WEAPONS AND SUCH.

==============

Which meant a Magus was now outside the laws of the world. No longer bound by the physical laws of the world, and that meant a Magus was already walking in his own Causality.

-Thank You
 
I don't see Acausality type 4 in this:

"Magus are people who study supernatural phenomena OUTSIDE the laws of the world": This could just mean that any supernatural phenomena are unknown to most people. The "outside the laws of the world" part are likely interpreted as something humans can't understand are out of this world.

"Magus are not bound by the physical laws of the world": This doesn't grant Acausality of any kind, maybe some kind of resistance toward physics manipulation or something like that. Acausality type 4 require to be exist independently from the cycle of cause and effect.

Also, this is just my subjective opinion since i don't know anything about Trinity Seven so feel free to debunk it.
 
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Unless magus are made of this phenomenon, they don't get acausality, they are just studying something with acausality, heck, that part of the text was to explain why they have above average spirit and assertiveness.

That would be resistance to physics manipulation, and that's only with thise transformation thingy
 
Jamesthetaker said:
I don't see Acausality type 4 in this:

"Magus are people who study supernatural phenomena OUTSIDE the laws of the world": This could just mean that any supernatural phenomena are unknown to most people. The "outside the laws of the world" part are likely interpreted as something humans can't understand are out of this world.

"Magus are not bound by the physical laws of the world": This doesn't grant Acausality of any kind, maybe some kind of resistance toward physics manipulation or something like that. Acausality type 4 require to be exist independently from the cycle of cause and effect.

Also, this is just my subjective opinion since i don't know anything about Trinity Seven so feel free to debunk it.
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Thelastmlg said:
Unless magus are made of this phenomenon, they don't get acausality, they are just studying something with acausality, heck, that part of the text was to explain why they have above average spirit and assertiveness.

That would be resistance to physics manipulation, and that's only with thise transformation thingy
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Thank you for the evaluation. That seems to make sense to me.

Should I close this thread then?
 
It doesn't seem like an important enough thread to bother more of our staff with it.
 
I'm in agreement with James. Law is a subjective and broad term, which it is not always mean the law of cause and effect which is causality. At the highest interpretation it is only possibly type 4, however i myself leaning toward not giving any, due to the feats and statement can be interpreted in too many ways. For example: outside of the law of physic, this statement could mean many things and theoretically i can call every characters in every fiction that can bend the reality with supernatural power are outside the law of physic. And lastly they lack feat when it come to causality and fate so i don't think this can grant acausality type 4.

Well this is my take on this matter
 
I don't know why crt about T7 there is more than 1, but anyway about aca4.

As we know, the description or explanation of the terminology is already in the manga. For example, the explanation of mage/magus, which is stated that magus are people who learn what magic is and things related to it, not only that, magic is also in T7 verse stated are supernatural phenomena that are outside of the law world which is already cannot be explained using ordinary human logic.

In addition, there is also an explanation of Magus Mode which for you to achieve, you have to use your magic power from the grimoire to "execute" their theme based on their research on Thema/theme. With this, they are also said to be no longer bound by the physical law of the human world.

And then, in LN T7 Vol 01, there is also a description of the "Principles Of World".

As long as humans live in the world of humans, they are bound to the “principles of the world”.

They cannot move things without their hands, neither can they lit a fire without tools. They cannot fly through the air without arrangements and it is absolutely impossible to move through time.
Since the dawn of history, in other words, since the birth of humanity, their intelligence has solved countless mysteries and overcome many of the endless “impossibilities”.
Yet, there are still a lot of things humans are not capable of.
Yes, as long as they are bound to the “principles of the world”, humans are only allowed to live within these principles.

Trinity Seven Vol 01 : Prologue
Click to expand...


However, some humans opposed the principles of the world and learned “magic”.

“Magic” is the exact opposite from the elements that make up the world.
It can bring phenomena or beings into existence that normally would never exist.
Everything commonly known as devils, monsters or apparitions are a product of “magic”.
They continued to study techniques to move things without their hands for a vertiginous long time. They worked out a method to lit fire without tools from a forbidden technique and did not hesitate to adopt a skill of the different dimension to fly through the air, nor did they fear to make contact with an existence from a higher dimension than humans to be able to cross time.
It was the result of crazy experiments and research that no normal human could ever perform.
In the recent years, a field of studying called sorcery was finally established.
The “seven deadly sins” are the furthest separated from the “principles of the world”.
“Superbia”, “Avaritia”, “Invidia”, “Ira”, “Gula”, “Luxuria”, “Acedia”.
These very sins by which humans gets judged in life, are the connection to “magic”.
The seven sins are called “archive” and those, who learn “magic” by researching the “archives” and pass it on to change the current world and advance the ages to come, are called mages.
Amongst these mages, there are seven people, who arrived at the pinnacle of sorcery.

They are called the “Trinity Seven”.
Click to expand...
Based on the above feats/scans, human beings in the world are bound to the "principles of the world". Ordinary humans in the world cannot move things without their hands, which is where the hands can be used as an analogy for (cause) and the effect of things done by the hands can be considered as (effect). Not only that, human beings who are still bound by the "principles of the world" also cannot do something outside the principles of the world system such as fly through the air without arrangements or move through time.

However, there are some humans who are opposed to the principles of the world and learn the magic. As explained above, magic is things that are exactly opposite from the elements that make up the world, magic is also supernatural phenomena that are outside of the law and magic and also take place in parallel universes and alternate dimensions.

The Seven Deadly Sins or another name is Trinity Seven is stated to be the furthest separated from the principles of the world which means they are no longer in the causality of ordinary human beings in the world and they move according to their own causality.

The Conclusion is:

Based on the term Acausality Type 4 in this wiki, “Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.”

As I have explained above that, Trinity Seven can deserve an Aca4. This is because there is a mentioned causality (not directly) where ordinary human beings are still bound to the "principle of world" system, but the Trinity Seven, they are no longer bound or no longer follow the "principle of world" system where ordinary human causality is there.
 
Nexp06 said:
Based on the above feats/scans, human beings in the world are bound to the "principles of the world". Ordinary humans in the world cannot move things without their hands, which is where the hands can be used as an analogy for (cause) and the effect of things done by the hands can be considered as (effect). Not only that, human beings who are still bound by the "principles of the world" also cannot do something outside the principles of the world system such as fly through the air without arrangements or move through time.

However, there are some humans who are opposed to the principles of the world and learn the magic. As explained above, magic is things that are exactly opposite from the elements that make up the world, magic is also supernatural phenomena that are outside of the law and magic and also take place in parallel universes and alternate dimensions.

The Seven Deadly Sins or another name is Trinity Seven is stated to be the furthest separated from the principles of the world which means they are no longer in the causality of ordinary human beings in the world and they move according to their own causality.

The Conclusion is:

Based on the term Acausality Type 4 in this wiki, “Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.”

As I have explained above that, Trinity Seven can deserve an Aca4. This is because there is a mentioned causality (not directly) where ordinary human beings are still bound to the "principle of world" system, but the Trinity Seven, they are no longer bound or no longer follow the "principle of world" system where ordinary human causality is there.
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With all due respect, this is a big leap in logic, and by all mean, your personal interpretation. Everything you listed is said about how awesome magic is, nothing is actually related to causality, the context didn't actually support your intepretation, it is all over the place by all mean
 
So should I close this thread?
 
Vietthai96 said:
With all due respect, this is a big leap in logic, and by all mean, your personal interpretation. Everything you listed is said about how awesome magic is, nothing is actually related to causality, the context didn't actually support your intepretation, it is all over the place by all mean
Click to expand...
What do you mean ?, causality has to do with cause and effect, without cause, there will be no effect, as stated in the term causality, The user can redirect any cause to any effect, undo anything by inverting the relation cause/effect, or even separate them entirely, making a specific effect impossible to be caused or a specific cause not producing any effect. Not all verses must directly state causality, it can be any form depending on how it’s applied in the verse.

Now lets get back to the Acausality,

“ Acausality is the ability to act unrestrained by conventional cause and effect, on a scale that varies depending on the character. For some characters, this means not being affected by changes to the past; for others, this means defying all logic and acting with disregard for traditional causality.”

Which means acausality is related to causality, and what if there is a character who does not follow the regular system of causality in his world? and yes, that character at least will get Aca4.

I admit that perhaps the way I describe it is poorly understood, but the important point is the Trinity Seven, does not follow the system of principles of the world to which ordinary human beings in the world are still bound.

About the explanation of magic in T7 being so is because magic is stated to be outside of the world law, I know law can be anything but in T7 verse, mages/magus who use magic alone are outside the law of the world. Coupled with the fact that the context of ordinary human beings is still bound by the principle of the world, T7 is also stated to have been far from the system of ordinary human causality.
 
This doesn't seem to be Acauslaity Type 4. From what I can see Magic is free from the Principles of the World making impossible things happen.

The Sevne Deadly sins are farthest from the principles of the world because they are the best at utilizing magic. And being far from something does not mean you are outside/unbound from it. I can be the farthest person from the center of the universe but that doesn't mean I'm outside of the Universe.

While the Principles of the World can be argued to include Cause and Effect, nothing here states The Seven Deadly Sins are outside of these principles. Only through the magic that can make the impossible possible are they even described to be such.

That's my interpretation atleast.
 
Well, for some reason, I didn't find any additional feats to serve as solid evidence, or in fact I was too lazy to re -read and look for better scans.

And I don't expect anyone to do a crt upgrade, iirc, Confluctor has said it's better to wait until manganya get at least better and more accurate evidence, so I'm not too prepared for this, for some people who may know more and have experience about solving problems like this is expected to please give an opinion.
 
Since this thread seems to have been uniformly rejected should I close it?
 
Don't be too fast, maybe we can call some knowledgeable and experienced members to give their opinions. These feats and scans are also likely to be brought back in the future, well at least we need to know what abilities are possible to get in these scans.
 
Nexp06 said:
Well, for some reason, I didn't find any additional feats to serve as solid evidence, or in fact I was too lazy to re -read and look for better scans.

And I don't expect anyone to do a crt upgrade, iirc, Confluctor has said it's better to wait until manganya get at least better and more accurate evidence, so I'm not too prepared for this, for some people who may know more and have experience about solving problems like this is expected to please give an opinion.
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How long will it take to revise this verse? At least 70% of this verse must be revised, and we don't know when this verse will end, and thank you in advance
 
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