Abstract Existence question

[Hellformer]

Does being able to create concepts via one's own body grant abstract existence (type 2) to it?

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Context? I’d say definitely not though

 

[Hellformer]

Context? I’d say definitely not though

Concepts being created by a character's physical body.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Concepts being created by a character's physical body.

Have a scan or something?

 

[Hellformer]

Have a scan or something?

No, it's just that the character created a universe and "everything in it" (which includes concepts) via white dots that litter his body.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

No, it's just that the character created a universe and "everything in it" (which includes concepts) via white dots that litter his body.

Nah. Don’t think it would be

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

To add.i don’t think he even created anything besides galaxies with the dots

 

[Hellformer]

To add.i don’t think he even created anything besides galaxies with the dots

For that you'd have to watch the entire series. He is said to create the entire Universe which includes a hypertimeline, a timestream which contains infinite timelines with each of them containing infinite space-time continuums.

Overall a 1-C, likely 1-B structure.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

For that you'd have to watch the entire series. He is said to create the entire Universe which includes a hypertimeline, a timestream which contains infinite timelines with each of them containing infinite space-time continuums.

Overall a 1-C, likely 1-B structure.

I was saying that everything else simply could have been remade by his will instead of his body.

 

[Hellformer]

I was saying that everything else simply could have been remade by his will instead of his body.

Occam's razor

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Occam's razor

Not applicable here. There genuinely is no evidence that everything was created from his body. We can clearly see that only a certain part is shown to be created through those spots.

 

[Hellformer]

Not applicable here. There genuinely is no evidence that everything was created from his body. We can clearly see that only a certain part is shown to be created through those spots.

He wasn' shown creating the timestream either but that doesn't mean he didn't create it. The Universe simply consists of all that stuff and "everything" in it was created by him, without any indication of seperate usage of abilities for different things.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

He wasn' shown creating the timestream either but that doesn't mean he didn't create it. The Universe simply consists of all that stuff and "everything" in it was created by him, without any indication of seperate usage of abilities for different things.

False equivalence. I never denied him creating everything.Celestialsapiens are known to change reality.knowing this, there is absolutely no reason to assume that he created everything from his body alone,when that just isn’t shown. his profile has it listed multiple times as him recreating it with a thought. So i don’t see a reason on why it was his body alone that created everything in the universe

 

[Hellformer]

False equivalence. I never denied him creating everything.Celestialsapiens are known to change reality.knowing this, there is absolutely no reason to assume that he created everything from his body alone,when that just isn’t shown. his profile has it listed multiple times as him recreating it with a thought. So i don’t see a reason on why it was his body alone that created everything in the universe

Argument from ignorance.
You're simply going off visuals alone. The visuals did not show him creating hypertime either, but that does not mean he didn't create it. This is pure hypocrisy atp.

If you claim that he created galaxies by his body and then other things via something else, that'd be an extraordinary claim which requires evidence from your side.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Argument from ignorance.
You're simply going off visuals alone. The visuals did not show him creating hypertime either, but that does not mean he didn't create it. This is pure hypocrisy atp.

Yet again a false equivalence. We know he created everything. We do not need to show him doing so for each thing as it is already stated that he created all there is.what we CANNOT do is say “since he created this via his body,even though it wasn’t shown it also means he made other things the same way” when there are SO many more points pointing towards reality warping being the reasoning. I can be mistaken since it has been years, but i believe in the trial they literally compared his feats of recreation to literally every other celestialsapien warping reality.

If you claim that he created galaxies by his body and then other things via something else, that'd be an extraordinary claim which requires evidence from your side.

I am denying your assertion and presenting separate evidence. It is your burden. As nothing actually proves your claim that everything was made from his body. I presented the argument that everything else was created from his thoughts as this is something repeatedly stated to be possible and his feat is also compared to.(not really an argument,but if everything came from his body,i don’t see why it would be stated that no one else could have remade it to the extent of Ben.) its way more clear that Ben’s thoughts actually had an effect on how the universe turned out.

 

[Hellformer]

Yet again a false equivalence. We know he created everything. We do not need to show him doing so for each thing as it is already stated that he created all there is.what we CANNOT do is say “since he created this via his body,even though it wasn’t shown it also means he made other things the same way”

That's where Occam's razor comes in. If there is a storm in a certain area and we see trees being ripped apart from their roots, you won't jump to "oh i didn't see the storm harming the tree so it must've been something else". You jump to the most plausible conclusion unless there exists other extraordinary piece of evidence.

when there are SO many more points pointing towards reality warping being the reasoning

Which ones?

. I can be mistaken since it has been years, but i believe in the trial they literally compared his feats of recreation to literally every other celestialsapien warping reality.

Yes you're mistaken because the reality warping ability was showcased by Chadzmuth as in Celestialsapiens "altering" the existent reality, not "creating" it like Alien X did. So that's fallacious assumption from your side..

I am denying your assertion and presenting separate evidence. It is your burden. As nothing actually proves your claim that everything was made from his body. I presented the argument that everything else was created from his thoughts as this is something repeatedly stated to be possible and his feat is also compared to.(not really an argument,but if everything came from his body,i don’t see why it would be stated that no one else could have remade it to the extent of Ben.) its way more clear that Ben’s thoughts actually had an effect on how the universe turned out.

Already explained the same point, if you believe he used seperate abilities for creating galaxies and other things, then please slide that extraordinary piece of evidence, otherwise your argument is nonsense atp.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

That's where Occam's razor comes in. If there is a storm in a certain area and we see trees being ripped apart from their roots, you won't jump to "oh i didn't see the storm harming the tree so it must've been something else". You jump to the most plausible conclusion unless there exists other extraordinary piece of evidence.

You’re genuinely using that wrong and strawmanning my argument . This is not at all what is happening.it would be more like you claiming that the storm even ripped trees from somewhere states away,which I then deny and give reasoning on a more likely outcome. I do NOT even have to provide evidence on why it is not true when you have failed to prove it was true in the first place.yet I did so anyway

The most plausible conclusion also is just that Ben created the universe with a thought as otherwise there would be no reasoning on why it isn’t an exact copy since the universe would be the same regardless of what Ben did.since everything would have just Ben put back in place. Yet Ben created an entirely new Elena “how he wanted her to be” which clearly gives intent behind his actions, as well as Mr smoothie and other things.

Which ones?

The fact that it is stated at least 6 times that celestialsapiens abilities of creation/destruction/altering are thought based.

• Alien X can make something happen just by thinking about it. Can make his mere thoughts actually become reality. Forge of Creation, the homeworld of Celestialsapiens, is place where ideas become real)

Based on how it is worded,it seems clear that just thinking about it causes it to become true.

And based on the profile it is literally accepted that he did it with a thought.


• Enhanced Reality Warping & Creation (Easily recreated "The Universe" with a simple thought<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Alien_X#cite_note-:1-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a>. Alien X's reality warping is so powerful he can make something happen just by thinking about it. Stated by Servantis that with a Celestialsapien form, Bencan one day just wish everything out of existence. Stated can create and destroy entire universes.


Feats:

• Alien X was able to use his reality warping powers and reverse the flood.
• Recreated "The Universe" with a thought.

Yes you're mistaken because the reality warping ability was showcased by Chadzmuth as in Celestialsapiens "altering" the existent reality, not "creating" it like Alien X did. So that's fallacious assumption from your side..

The trial itself was about debating on alien X recreation of the universe. It is then brought up that celestialsapiens change the universe all the time. This clearly gives reasoning on why the two things are not different. As the reasoning for Ben being innocent was based on the fact that others already do the same/similar thing. I don’t see how you could call it fallacious when they all are known to have the same abilities.

Already explained the same point, if you believe he used seperate abilities for creating galaxies and other things, then please slide that extraordinary piece of evidence, otherwise your argument is nonsense atp.

Not even my burden as I am denying your assertion. You are in the positive as you claim that he did so without any evidence actually proving it. Even though it is not my burden I still provided evidence that they change the universe with a thought. This also includes creation and destruction as listed on the profile. I will not be responding any farther to you as you simply are not tracking the argument that I am presenting which leads to you strawmanning what was said.