About Celestial Body Feats

[ArbitraryNumbers]

So currently our policy on moving planets at FTL speeds is to just rank them at planet level.

The problem with this is...

Underdog moving a planet at sub-relativistic speeds is 5-A.

Link flipping a planet is Low 4-C (Can't find the feat.

The Platinum Robo rotating a planet is Low 4-C.

Why is moving a planet at FTL speeds only Planet level when moving it at much lower speeds yields dramatically higher results? Why can't we place moving planets at FTL speeds at "At least Low 4-C"?

This issue just kinda bothered me. I don't quite understand.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Because KE doesnt work at FTL speeds

 

[Reppuzan]

@Arbitrary

As Weekly stated, it's impossible to use the KE formula at FTL speeds. Therefore we use their GBE since we'd otherwise be using imaginary numbers.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6Te8JaWMP_E

1:00.

 

[Antoniofer]

It could be confuse in some cases: Someone who pushes an moon at relativistic speed with high difficulty will be rated higher than someone that just take a planet and moves it like nothing.

But what we can do? Can't use KE in speed highers than SoL.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

At least whatever tier, likely. far higher?

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/zelda-hyrule-warriors-feat-link-flips-something.25436/ 2.629 tenatons.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Anton

I know it sounds illogical, but we still can't use FTL KE. It's mathematically impossible.

 

[Antoniofer]

I known, but I think that is one of the doubts of AN (I think). If there would be a formula to calculate the minimal energy to pull a celestial body from its gravitional field, it could be used, it would be independent of timeframe; but that could be less than GBE, and it would scrap any KE calc, so that isn't an option.

 

[GreyFang82]

I mean, I feel like it would be reasonable if a person moved a planet FTL you could at least use the mass of the planet being moved exactly at the speed of light for a general idea. EX: you would post the KE of that calc and say At Least X Level, Likely Far Higher but that's just me... feel free to tell me what you think.

 

[KinkiestSins]

I think our current policy is if you move say a star at FTL speeds, you round down and say "At Least -insert tier here' That Im fine with. Also, moving a planet at .99 percent the speed of light is Low 4-C via KE, so I am fine with the change.

 

[Reppuzan]

Well, Gwynbleidd was our leader on this topic, but he's retired.

However, even using lightspeed is impossible for KE, since it was never designed to function at lightspeed where physics break down as a whole.

 

[GreyFang82]

Yeah that makes sense, but I still think if we could use a viable speed and the mass of the object moved, it would still be a baseline for a person's AP and simply say it's likely higher. But maybe that's more of a hassle than it's worth. Who knows.

 

[FanofRPGs]

I personally believe if they go at FTL speeds, you just put them at the tier of the body they are holding (They have a moon? 5-C. Sun? 4-C. ETC)

Because at FTL speeds, you actually lose energy the faster you go. So even if KE was applicable, the result would be lower than the mass energy. As such, we should not calc it and take the feat at face value.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

If they can move at FTL speeds with strength would it not mean they can also do it at 99% Rel?

 

[FanofRPGs]

If they can move at FTL speeds with strength would it not mean they can also do it at 99% Rel?

Usually characters in fiction instantly accelerate to FTL speeds it seems, and it won't take the energy requirement just to reach light speed. But at 99% rel, something has more KE than if it goes 5x FTL for example.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

I'm aware of the whole FTL and kinetic energy issue.

The problem is, if they can easily move say earth at 10x light speed, what's stopping them from moving it at 99% rel?

They clearly have the strength needed to do both.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Perhaps we could just use Newtonian values instead for FTL planet-moving,then x4 the value?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If you can push a Planet at 2c, shouldn't you also be able to push a planet at 0.9c?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

If you can push a Planet at 2c, shouldn't you also be able to push a planet at 0.9c?

You should also be able to push it at 0.999999999c and generate absolutely obscene amounts of energy. But you can't, because this is fiction, and being able to move FTL does not mean you can move just below FTL to generate such high energy.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah, you're probably right. :c

>Sad that we can't apply fridge logic here.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It's one of those things where the very nature of FTL travel makes it a pain in the ass, especially with how some verses treat it, and others don't acknowledge it, at all.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There's a quote in the Saint Seiya Guidebook which explains E=MC┬▓, and then goes to say that the reason the Gold Saints are so powerful is because they can reach Lightspeed.

High 3-A Saints when.

 

[Antvasima]

I also consider this as a problem, but given that we are moving outside of the realm of physics for FTL speeds, I do not know what we can do about it.

 

[FanofRPGs]

I also consider this as a problem, but given that we are moving outside of the realm of physics for FTL speeds, I do not know what we can do about it.

The most credible theories state that energy actually would go down if FTL were to exist. It would take far less energy to go instantly from average to FTL speed than going from average to light speed or close.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Problem with that is, to go from standstill to FTL, ya gotta also hit relativistic speeds. It doesn't matter if the acceleration was fast, ya still need to hit that threshold if even for an instant. I mean unless we're talking literally infinite speed.

 

[Kaltias]

The problem is that this way literally everything going FTL is High 3-A due to hitting lightspeed

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Yeah, I'm aware, that's the only glaring issue I see.

This is a tough one honestly.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Well this dose look really inconsistent you could make it so the point where ever the AP gets to the point where the celestial object would disintegrate is the limit for a culc.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

It just really seems illogical to me.

But I think I can agree with FanofRPG's reasoning here.

 

[XSpuky9]

Also the Celestial Towers from Terraria moved the Moon at Relativistic speed produced High 5-A. It seems logical FTL movement for celestial bodies should be at least the value for high-end Relativistic speed movement of the same body.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It's illogical, but so is a humanoid going FTL by flying.

We can't just scale things that move FTL to the highest relativistic KE value, because this essentially leads to "Why isn't everything that can move FTL just High 3-A?", to which there would be no good answer should we apply the same formula here.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Make it consistent I guess?

Or just use a solid 90% instead of 99.999999999999999%?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Because there's no actual reason to do that, other than something completely arbitrary, which we can't really justify using the methods we use for KE calcs.

 

[The_Everlasting]

I agree with Azzy.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree as well.

I wasn't even serious when I made the 0.9c comment. I know we can't do it like that.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

But there's still a problem, assuming someone who uses all their effort and energy to move a moon at 90% tel is stronger than someone who casually throws earth at 100x FTL is illogical, no way in hell is the other dude stronger than the latter.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The latter is no longer abiding by the rule of needing more energy as he approaches the speed of light. He's broken that threshold. As weird as it seems, if he can move it at FTL speeds, there's no reason for him to need to generate the energy to move it at 0.9c, because it actually requires less.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

But here's the problem, it requires less, but even if for a second he had to hit relavistic speeds.

The problem there is he also needed to hit 99.99999999999% of relavistic speeds yo hit lightspeed.

I'm not sure what to do, but theres a problem on both ends.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

In the vast majority of cases in fiction, actual acceleration for things like this is almost nonexistent. Most of the time, when something moves FTL, the process occurs almost instantly without any time inbetween.