A soulless being VS Sans

[Durrentz]

Would this hypothetical character be able to eventually outlast and finally beat Sans?

The character is a powerful artificial alien creation whose speed is mach 5500, is immune to all of Sans' abilities due to not having a soul in the first place, is with town-level durability, unlimited stamina, super genius intelligence, the ability to create almost countless holograms of himself to distract Sans with (And they have long range teleportation whose teleport location is dictated by the real character), has the ability to become completely invisible and cannot be heard because of a sound negator its cloaking device has, and has an invisible kunai danmaku ability that cannot be seen, heard, or felt until it's too late.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

flowey is souless dude. soul magic is capable of affecting objects

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Nothing says that Sans used his soul hax to beat Flowey

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Yeah. IIRC, we're never told whether or not Sans was fighting Flowey at full power, and Normal!Flowey is a Wall level flower who could fairly easily have been beaten down by Sans's raw AP. Occam's Razor leans more towards Sans just hurting him physically rather than "soul-haxing the soulless".

I actually remember Monarch summing this up quite nicely in some other thread, but I don't recall which one it was.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Nothing says that Sans used his soul hax to beat Flowey

undynes attacks wsork on a table. there is no motivation for sanses not to work

he also teletraspoted frisks equipment whit them, despite not being part of therir body

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yeah. IIRC, we're never told whether or not Sans was fighting Flowey at full power, and Normal!Flowey is a Wall level flower who could fairly easily have been beaten down by Sans's raw AP. Occam's Razor leans more towards Sans just hurting him physically rather than "soul-haxing the soulless".
I actually remember Monarch summing this up quite nicely in some other thread, but I don't recall which one it was.

flowey has done ALL possible endings, and probably beaten sans. and he could have just killed the ruins inhabitants to get lv

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

UT attacks hit physically as well as spiritually, sure, but that doesn't mean the "physical" aspect of them bypasses durability too. Undyne's attacks work on a table because A) she's 7-C, and B) it's a table.

Also, where's the logic behind him having "probably beaten Sans" when the latter is outright stated to repeatedly stuff him? And even if he has, what difference does that make in regards to whether or not Sans himself can soul-hax soulless beings?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

UT attacks hit physically as well as spiritually, sure, but that doesn't mean the "physical" aspect of it bypasses durability. Undyne's attacks work on a table because A) she's 7-C, and B) it's a table.
Also, where's the logic behind him having "probably beaten Sans" when the latter is outright stated to repeatedly stuff him? And even if he has, what difference does that make to whether or not Sans himself can soul-hax soulless beings?

flowey states he has done all posible endings and mocks frisk if zhey reset after sans fight. sans is wall level. and there is NO REASON for it not to work. the teleportation works on armor and eqipment, so there is no reason for telekinesis not to work.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Again, the magic works on both the physical and spiritual level. Of course it's going to work on the armor and equipment a person is wearing.

But that doesn't mean the attacks themselves can ignore durability on a soulless being. Sans's attacks do Wall level physical damage. Baseline Flowey is Wall level. Logical conclusion is that Sans wins by harming him physically, not by soul-haxing him into submission.

Flowey himself also has soul manip, so him being able to beat the other characters in the game is reasonably within his abilities. He's able to appear wherever he wants, and none of the other characters have the level of Danmaku that Sans has, so for all we know, Flowey simply dodged their attacks the way the player is forced to. There's nothing concrete which says otherwise.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

. He's able to appear wherever he wants, and none of the other characters have the level of Danmaku that Sans has, so for all we know, Flowey simply dodged their attacks the way the player is forced to. There's nothing concrete which says otherwise.

flowey still got beaten by him, which, whitout would have been impossible whit one hp dammage (while sans is ABLE to dammage them its litiraly 19 times weaker and flowey had healing items )

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

And? Like I said, Sans has the most threatening Danmaku in the game. In all likelihood, the guy simply overwhelmed Flowey with the sheer number of attacks he was flinging around at each given moment.

He's also far and away the fastest non-Immeasurable in the game, to the point that he dodges everyone else's attacks with no effort whatsoever and can literally dodge Chara/Frisk in his sleep. For all we know, Flowey simply couldn't hit him.

Again, there's nothing concrete which contradicts any of this.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And? Like I said, Sans has the most threatening Danmaku in the game. In all likelihood, the guy simply overwhelmed Flowey with the sheer number of attacks he was flinging around at each given moment.

invincibilty frames are longer than first attack on itself.


i think you misunderstand. the invulnerability being ignored is because frisk stops gettin demmage. sans isnt ignoring the defense stat or anyting, he is simply doing dammage permanently as long as in contact


also game < wiki page. undertale works whit numbers, and its part of canon. sans being wall level doesent mean that he can oneshot froggit, who is pretty low, as froggit has more than 1 hp

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I'm not talking about I-frames. I'm talking about the sheer number of projectiles Sans flings at you during any given boss fight with him.

I also never said Sans could one-shot him. He doesn't need that ability. I'm almost positive that getting hit by a metric ton of bones and Gasterblaster shots in quick succession would whittle him down to near-nothing fairly quickly.

I'll use a metaphor. Taking one flying rock to the head? That's all well and good. But taking 50+ rocks to the face before you can dodge? Whole different ballgame.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I'm not talking about I-frames. I'm talking about the sheer number of projectiles Sans flings at you during any given boss fight with him.

youre ignoring immortality frames. :/

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

And? Sans negs those. You outright stated the means in which he does that, so what's telling us that he didn't abuse the same methods against Flowey that he does against the player?

Even then, that still doesn't confirm that Sans can soul-hax beings without a soul, since we're never told how Sans wins or how many hits/attacks/etc. it takes for him to do so.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And? Sans negs those. You outright stated the means in which he does that, so what's telling us that he didn't abuse the same methods against Flowey that he does against the player?
Even then, that still doesn't confirm that Sans can soul-hax beings without a soul, since we're never told how Sans wins or how many hits/attacks/etc. it takes for him to do so.

however, there is no reason to belive he cant, as its not directly soul related (exept kr)

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

There's every reason to believe he can't. There's no substantial proof that he can.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

There's every reason to believe he can't. There's no substantial proof that he can.

soul magic works perfectly well on objects. including colored (blue and orange),

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I already explained why that doesn't mean anything.

 

[Durrentz]

I already explained why that doesn't mean anything.

Aaaaanyway. Do you think the hypothetical character might be able to beat Sans eventually?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

With the situation in the OP? Definitely.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Attacks in Undertale hit on all levels. Papyrus even shows you the bones he used on you in combat.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Hitting on all levels =/= soulhaxing the soulless. It simply means the attacks damage victims physically and spiritually.

Remove the "spiritual" element, and you're left with only the "physical" one.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Hitting on all levels =/= soulhaxing the soulless. It simply means the attacks damage victims physically and spiritually.
Remove the "spiritual" element, and you're left with only the "physical" one.

and teletrasportation works on objects. as does blue mode, as the soul leaving the body would be deadly, and as such it has to have affected the body

 

[Overlord775]

sans would be able to damage tha character, but there's no way in hell he would even be able to hit it or dodge it's attacks, it's a stomp

 

[Durrentz]

sans would be able to damage tha character, but there's no way in hell he would even be able to hit it or dodge it's attacks, it's a stomp

Oh, I see. Also, what if, instead of just being soulless, what if the character was instead with a soul that was completely immune to all damage and that immunity itself is also straight up immune to being directly bypassed and ignored? Would Sans still be able to damage him?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Oh, I see. Also, what if, instead of just being soulless, what if the character was instead with a soul that was completely immune to all damage and that immunity itself is also straight up immune to being directly bypassed and ignored? Would Sans still be able to damage him?

thats very nlf, but no, he wouldent, and you know it. whats the point anyways? its not like this is a fight alright whit the rules, whit it being a stomp for a character you MADE to stomp.

i doubt ANYONE belives sans can win

 

[Eficiente]

What's the situation of this, can Sans damage him and ignore his durability?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

That's the question being asked here; Is Sans able to negate durability on a soulless being?

And I've already just about explained it. The general answer is "No, he is not."

Nobody really wants to accept that as an answer, though.

 

[Overlord775]

That's the question being asked here; Is Sans able to negate durability on a soulless being?
And I've already just about explained it. The general answer is "No, he is not."

Nobody really wants to accept that as an answer, though.

sans killed flowey multiple times, the same flowey that can survive multiple hits from an end-game genocide run frisk, who one shotted a town level character and flowey doesn't have a soul, so sans has to be able to negate the durability of a souless character

 

[Kaltias]

I mean, realistically Flowey fought Sans at the end of his own Genocide run, which would make him 7-C as Flowey himself doesn't negate durability.

So probably to an extent the durability negation still works. It isn't even remotely as good as his durability negation against a being with a soul tho.