A New Challenger to the Emily win streak (1-0-0)

[Arcker123]

Emily Kaldwin VS Sans​

• Shamelessly using Undertale to bait interaction (Corvo vs Morgan Yu, my other idea would've just been a me + Deceived circlejerk)​
• Speed Unequalized ​
• Takes place in the Gotham Merchant's Bank​
• SBA Otherwise​

The Empress: @Stillwinston

The Skeleton:

Incon:

 

[Arcker123]

Bump

 

[Arcker123]

Bump

 

[Stillwinston]

Well from what I know with Sans he'll apparently open with TK-ing, how far away would they be? Emily's best chance would be to dip into stealth and using Domino

 

[Arcker123]

Hundreds of meters away by sba. So basically opposite sides of the bank.

 

[Stillwinston]

Okay, I took a look at the location there from a vid (fun fact in arkham origins iirc if you beat deadshot the rest of his thugs don't fight you and ditch his sorry ass lol)

Looking at this if they're that far apart I do see Emily taking this more, the bank has places such as gargoyles which Emily would use to similar effect and there's nothing to suggest Sans can detect her considering how cracked she is at sneaking even without powers and shadow walk makes it easier. Sans has Instinctive Action that lets him dodge attacks while sleeping, but Domino should bypass this as would being ragdolled by Far Reach.

Atm chalk me down for Emily mid diff, she can dip out of sight and then use her powers to gank Sans before she gets ragdolled or danmaku'd from what I see here.

 

[Arcker123]

Yeah I didn't want to put this in Central Park because it being populated givez Emily an incredible advantage with Domino.

 

[Stillwinston]

Huh I always thought no other people were around in a fight under sba. That said the bank iirc has windows and Emily could just Domino Sans with a nearby pigeon or smth

 

[Arcker123]

I was surprised to find that out as well.

Apparently, people in the area still exist like the normally would (unless specified otherwise), they just do not interefere unless a character prompts them.

 

[Arcker123]

Bump

 

[Comiphorous]

Looking at this if they're that far apart I do see Emily taking this more, the bank has places such as gargoyles which Emily would use to similar effect and there's nothing to suggest Sans can detect her considering how cracked she is at sneaking even without powers and shadow walk makes it easier. Sans has Instinctive Action that lets him dodge attacks while sleeping, but Domino should bypass this as would being ragdolled by Far Reach.

How does domino bypass Instinctive Action? there needs to be another target for that to work, and by the profile it specifies human enemies, which sans isn't.

Speed is unequalized, and sans is out of range. why doesn't sans just teleport forward and use his usual starting move and nigh-instantly kill her?

 

[Arcker123]

How does domino bypass Instinctive Action?

It's not an attack that travels or can be dodged. It just spawns on you when Emily activates her and targets him.

there needs to be another target for that to work,

Emily can summon clones of herself she can do that with.

and by the profile it specifies human enemies, which sans isn't.

This is just me forgetting things . It's really a woerding thing with no actual limitation on the ability.

Domino can affect all sorts of animals and stuff, it's not actually limited in such a manner. In fact, it can affect grave hounds, which are magical skeleton dogs. I see no reason it can't work here.

Edit: I'll have too look for this (I remember being able to domino the skulls of the Gravehounds when they are dormant but I can't give a better answer than that).

Speed is unequalized, and sans is out of range

Emily should be faster unequal. The Undertale Hypersonic+ are baseline according to the profiles, whearas Emily is Mach 11. It's a miniscule gap but still an Emily advantage, so I don't see the point.

Emily can attack from hundreds of meters away, she has the range edge.

why doesn't sans just teleport forward and use his usual starting move and nigh-instantly kill her?

Because Emily has fought teleporters before, groups of them in fact, as shown with the Brigmore Witches, and srtill was able to stealth around them. This argument doesn't seem to defeat Winston's stealth argument, with a speed edge, and her abilities and versatility, she could feasibly slip away.

 

[Comiphorous]

Because Emily has fought teleporters before, groups of them in fact, as shown with the Brigmore Witches, and srtill was able to stealth around them. This argument doesn't seem to defeat Winston's stealth argument, with a speed edge, and her abilities and versatility, she could feasibly slip away.

So if sans is at every single disadvantage he possibly could be and can't even dodge her attacks and is one shot by them what exactly is his win condition...? this just sounds like a stomp.

 

[Arcker123]

So if sans is at every single disadvantage

He's at an extremely minor speed disadvantage (I didn't want to equalize since I don't feel like a 1.106 gap was big enough to even be a factor), and he could theoretically close the distance gap easily.

I guess if you care enough we could simply close the range gap somewhat.

can't even dodge her attacks and is one shot by them

She has Domino which requires some amount of setup time to use and her other wincons would also take some time.

For a lot of her attacks and projectiles, his instinctive reaction could dodge.

what exactly is his win condition...?

The same thing as ever.

TK + Soul Manip. His LS is higher so that is feasible, it's just that we think Emily would have better responses for the reasons given.

his just sounds like a stomp.

​

 

[Comiphorous]

He's at an extremely minor speed disadvantage

And a range and hax disadvantage?

and he could theoretically close the distance gap easily.

I argued that literally a message ago and you already said he gets shut down from this since she's dealt with that?

She has Domino which requires some amount of setup time to use and her other wincons would also take some time.

Wait why isn't that on the profile? hell, why isn't that mentioned during like, half of her VSThreads

Some of those threads use domino as a reason for her winning, yet nobody seems to mention it needs setup?

 

[Arcker123]

And a range and hax disadvantage?

I argued that literally a message ago and you already said he gets shut down from this since she's dealt with that?

Wait why isn't that on the profile? hell, why isn't that mentioned during like, half of her VSThreads

Some of those threads use domino as a reason for her winning, yet nobody seems to mention it needs setup?

Range sure, but you can make a decent case for its relevance, same thing with the hax. Emily has advantages, but I don't think it's entirely a stomp.

Emily having dealt with it doesn't mean it couldn't help sans close the distance, it just means Emily has experience with such abilities and could relilaby counter them for her own wincon. It's an argument for sans I just have a counter for . You can still say the other abilities sans can win, just saying Emily can/has dealt with this one.

I mean nobody's ever said Domino just lands and it's gg. I don't think it changes much when the fights are all in Central park.

Edit: Emily needding a target is already on the profile. That's the setup, its just she can provide a target with her cloning or in sba where there'd be civilians around

 

[Comiphorous]

Range sure, but you can make a decent case for its relevance, same thing with the hax. Emily has advantages, but I don't think it's entirely a stomp.

but there isn't any wincon for sans beyond one you've mentioned that leads to Emily's wincon?

Emily having dealt with it doesn't mean it couldn't help sans close the distance, it just means Emily has experience with such abilities and could relilaby counter them for her own wincon. It's an argument for sans I just have a counter for

So... it's not a wincon for him??? if him doing that just leads to her wincon, that's not a wincon for him lol.

I mean nobody's ever said Domino just lands and it's gg. I don't think it changes much when the fights are all in Central park.

Edit: Emily needding a target is already on the profile. That's the setup, its just she can provide a target with her cloning or in sba where there'd be civilians around

Then if theres no real 'setup' that would take any relevant amount of time other than just choosing sans and a clone, what can he reliably do before she kills him?

 

[Arcker123]

but there isn't any wincon for sans beyond one you've mentioned that leads to Emily's wincon?

So... it's not a wincon for him??? if him doing that just leads to her wincon, that's not a wincon for him lol.

Then if theres no real 'setup' that would take any relevant amount of time other than just choosing sans and a clone, what can he reliably do before she kills him?

I never claimed it leads to Emily's wincon, just that Emily would get hers for x y and z

I never claimed teleportation was itself a wincon, but rather leads to it.

The TK and Soul manipulation should be a way to win, but Emily wins first. I don't see how that's a stomp. Sans does have very conceivable ways to win, but Emily wins because she can more reliably get her wincons off for xyz. I don't see how that's a stomp.

I never claimed it didn't exist, just explained the context behind why I called it that.

 

[Comiphorous]

I never claimed it leads to Emily's wincon, just that Emily would get hers for x y and z

"Because Emily has fought teleporters before, groups of them in fact, as shown with the Brigmore Witches, and srtill was able to stealth around them. This argument doesn't seem to defeat Winston's stealth argument, with a speed edge, and her abilities and versatility, she could feasibly slip away."

your own words. him doing that literally does put him in the position to use that wincon.

I never claimed teleportation was itself a wincon, but rather leads to it.

But that wincon can't happen if Emily already has experience with things sans does??? as i said above, you already said him teleporting forward doesn't stop her from instantly using stealth, and dying from domino.

The TK and Soul manipulation should be a way to win, but Emily wins first. I don't see how that's a stomp. Sans does have very conceivable ways to win, but Emily wins because she can more reliably get her wincons off for xyz. I don't see how that's a stomp.

Because that fantasy land wincon your talking about cannot happen. he has to get into range by teleporting and that doesn't even allow him to get into the position to possibly have his wincon available since she'd already be hiding with stealth, and sans would shortly die later from domino.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I have to agree with Comi here, if Sans has to teleport in, and then has never prove-ably dealt with stealth before(let alone stealth as good as Emily's) then he doesn't have a chance as he's damned if he teleports or not and Emily is not someone who tries for a straight up fight.

That applies to most Undertale characters by the way, if there isn't a straight up fight to be had they're on the backfoot big time

 

[Arcker123]

I have to agree with Comi here, if Sans has to teleport in, and then has never prove-ably dealt with stealth before(let alone stealth as good as Emily's) then he doesn't have a chance as he's damned if he teleports or not and Emily is not someone who tries for a straight up fight.

That applies to most Undertale characters by the way, if there isn't a straight up fight to be had they're on the backfoot big time

I have to put sans at ******* 20 meters because he just sucks, so peak...

I think I can agree with this. It's unfortunate though.