A DBZ calc

[SomebodyData]

@Aiden we no longer use SSJ multipliers... apparently

Not gonna lie, while I do disagree with not using them, the lack of the multipliers allow the gap between PC and SPC higher which also allows SPC to be 4-B

Also, yes the gap is possibly that big, we see this quite often in DB and early DBZ

@Fan

...Thats... a possiblity

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

well as long as we know the speed at which the fragments and the planet as a whole moves outwards we can use the KE to find the energy

after all, even in the case of GBE, there is a certain critical velocity at which the fragments must separate- any less and the planet will eventually re-form, any more and it will never re-form

 

[AidenBrooks999]

@Aiden we no longer use SSJ multipliers... apparently
Not gonna lie, while I do disagree with not using them, the lack of the multipliers allow the gap between PC and SPC higher which also allows SPC to be 4-B

Also, yes the gap is possibly that big, we see this quite often in DB and early DBZ

Well, if that what we got...

 

[Antoniofer]

Maybe we can find the relationship between detonation speed and yield, but I don't known any law that relate those two, and less an explosion in the vacuum.

 

[Antoniofer]

Well, if that what we got...

I also would like to use multiplier/PL level, but due that they works in a non lineal way, we can't obtain numbers from them, other wise we downgrade Golden Frieza to 4-B... We can only use them to say who is stronger by an unknown amount, and even that, is questionable, like Yakon having a PL inferior to Frieza, but Dabura having one barely above Goku or Frieza

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Maybe we can find the relationship between detonation speed and yield, but I don't known any law that relate those two, and less an explosion in the vacuum.

well how about this,

the relationship between fragments (as in all fragments) of a planet earth moving out at a velcity of v = sqrt((6/5)(G*M/R)) gives us the critical velocity, if the velocity is bigger than this critical velocity the planet will not come together, any less than the critical velocity then it will come together

so if the whole planet explodes and moves outwards at a specific velocity, we can use the scenarios as a generalized version of the same thought process which gives us GBE in relation to speed

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I also would like to use multiplier/PL level, but due that they works in a non lineal way, we can't obtain numbers from them, other wise we downgrade Golden Frieza to 4-B... We can only use them to say who is stronger by an unknown amount, and even that, is questionable, like Yakon having a PL inferior to Frieza, but Dabura having one barely above Goku or Frieza

1) Not really, God Ki is totally different thing tho. 2) I know that they don't work linear way, but still, we can have character that is "twice strong" as "hundreds of times" 2) Since when Yakon is weaker than Frieza?

 

[Antoniofer]

^That happen is we use PL indirect scaling, the one with less PL is weaker, the Yakon PL is 40M and the Frieza's 120M, but I think that people didn't think to much about gap power when they still using PL after Frieza saga...

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

are you guys discussing power calculation via power levels?

that doesnt work unless the power levels are either exactly the same or very very close to ech other

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Pretty sure that Yakon has no official power level...


But I think that we can reescale the characters, since, well, Frieza's profile has several tiers jumps alone.


Now, we should found which calc use.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

well the current one isnt really wont tbh

maybe there may be some issues with speed that can be resolved

but thats the only problem i see

 

[Antoniofer]

I think that this were the only calc of DBZ, above from here is just statement and scaling, I think the other one is Piccolo destroying the moon...

Also, here said that Yakon have that PL

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

as for this calc i think someone could suggest a better speed values to improve it, cuz otherwise it seems to be a fine approximation

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Don't know who to side with...

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Here said that Yakon have that PL

Well... With that logic: SS Goku from Buu Saga = SS Goku from Frieza Saga.

Nope.

 

[Antoniofer]

See? is what I'm trying to say, PL is even more difficult to scale even indirectly now

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

why are we scaling using pl again?

 

[AidenBrooks999]

See? is what I'm trying to say, PL is even more difficult to scale even indirectly now

Not really, since that statment is from the V-Jump

Not Toriyama itself.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

why are we scaling using pl again?

We always used.

Just not in a linear way.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Did we ever decide to change the calc yet? We should decide that first, and cross the scaling bridge when we get there. It would suck if we did all that work and it turns out to be illegitimate.

 

[Antoniofer]

Yeah, you're right @Howard, first the calc. Doesn't feels accurate to use (At least for me) for reasons above, man, isn't even calculing an explosion, is like calculing the KE of the detonation of 1 ton of tnt; without mentioning than this is the first calc that's come to mind in using this method...

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

well the KE of the calc is the total energy it has

its like finding the energy of an explosive by calcing the energy of all the particles which were accelerated by the explosion and given a velocity.....

in this case, frieza's supernova is the explosive and the total energy of the planet's chunks flying off is the minimum energy of the ki ball

its pretty simple tbh

 

[Antvasima]

I personally trust DontTalk's and The Living Tribunal1's acceptance of the previous calculation.

In addition, it would constitute a massive problem to attempt to rescale most of the Dragon Ball characters.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I reread some messages though, and Antoniofer made a really good point in "isn't even calculing an explosion, is like calculing the KE of the detonation of 1 ton of tnt; without mentioning than this is the first calc that's come to mind in using this method..." Also, I've offered to do a lot of the rescaling if it came to it, as I know that this subject, and feat in itself, has taken a lot out of you.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I usually trust DontTalk's sense of judgement. In addition, wasn't the current calculation accepted by the OBD?

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

I reread some messages though, and Antoniofer made a really good point in "isn't even calculing an explosion, is like calculing the KE of the detonation of 1 ton of tnt; without mentioning than this is the first calc that's come to mind in using this method..." Also, I've offered to do a lot of the rescaling if it came to it, as I know that this subject, and feat in itself, has taken a lot out of you.

ummm yeah calcing the KE of all projectiles and particles which were accelerated by some mass of TNT is a very good way of estimating the energy of the tnt explosion itself (the actual energy may be higher as the temperature of solid projectiles may not be accounted for, hence the dbz first form frieza being dwarf star level+ calc is a good low end)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Well, yes and no. They had a higher version at small star. This one is dwarf star.

I also trust DT a whole lot. Like a WHOLE lot. So much that I dropped upgrade threads entirely due to his debunking. I'm personally waiting on his response to Antoniofer's rebuttal.

Not to mention that I know next to nothing about calcs like this.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Well, yes and no. They had a higher version at small star. This one is dwarf star.
I also trust DT a whole lot. Like a WHOLE lot. So much that I dropped upgrade threads entirely due to his debunking. I'm personally waiting on his response to Antoniofer's rebuttal.

Not to mention that I know next to nothing about calcs like this.

neither of these account for temperature changes for the planet and the changes of states of matter that may have taken place

these are rudimentary KE calcs, and they give a good approximation for the total energy

 

[AguilaR101]

So what's the problem here?

Antonifer, I belive you're misunderstanding the nature of the calculation the planet is not assumed to be moving in one directio

The kinetic energy comes from the total mass of the debri being dispersed in every direction at high speeds which is what we're being shown in the scene.

AFAIK it is commonly agreed on many forums that if the size of a planet is unknown people can use earth's size, however I am unaware of this Wiki's approach to that.

As for the calc itself you posted I believe it needs some tweaking, the total mass of the planet was clearly not dispersed and as such that needs to be extracted from the KE equation, the timeframe itself is fine though.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@TLT, my most recent post was more or less directed to Ant.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with TLT1. Also, as I mentioned previously, we cannot constantly rescale all of the Dragon Ball characters. It turns into an endless task.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Aguila: The point of Gallavant's calc was that he tried find the time it took for the matter at the very middle of the planet to the point where it was completely past the screen.

The very core of the planet is layered deep under the entirety of the planet, and thus, it would move much slower compared to the rest of the planet after the explosion anyways, thus the calc serves as a good Low end...

But, I will re-check the calc just to make sure.

 

[LuciferSPN]

Why calculating this from DBS scene,it should be from DBZ or manga?

 

[Antvasima]

As far as I understand, because the DBZ anime deviates from the canon of the DBZ manga and the DBS anime in certain respects.

 

[Man_from_Shadow]

Mass can't just disappear.

It can only turn in something else.

 

[Antoniofer]

The problem isn't just with this calc, if we are going to calculate planets and moon explosions with this method, destroying a planet/moon always would be higher than it appears and should; also, how I said, the amount the those fragments seems minimal compared with the entire planet mass, since the can be see it to turned in dust or whatever; this is just another example of overlook into a feat.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

we can take a layer by layer evaluation for the KE

and yes a planet exploding will at times be much higher than its GBE

 

[Lina_Shields]

@TLT1: It is going to be very difficult to figure out which layer is which judging from

What I would do is just find the low end (using the timeframe it takes for the core matter to completely disperse from screen), the high end (the timeframe it takes for the mantle to disperse from the screen), and just find the average between the two values together to find the timeframe.

You can then find the KE from there.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

@TLT1: It is going to be very difficult to figure out which layer is which judging from
What I would do is just find the low end (using the timeframe it takes for the core matter to completely disperse from screen), the high end (the timeframe it takes for the mantle to disperse from the screen), and just find the average between the two values together to find the timeframe.

You can then find the KE from there.

we can do that

or we can use the core and the mantle and the rest of it separately and then add their KE

 

[Antvasima]

@Lina & TLT1 So, we might have to rescale the DBZ characters after all? It has turned extremely annoying to regularly have to do so.