A Chained Devil: Makima vs The Tower (Chainsaw Man vs. Slay The Princess) (0-0-1)

[Adem_Warlock69]

Two control freak Machiavellian manifestations of abstract concepts, fundamentally incapable of forming genuine relationships.
Also sorta funny that Makima and the Narrator basically share the same goal of “awful peace.”

-The Tower is used. Makima has all her Devils.
-Speed will be equalized.
-Battle takes place in the Construct.
-No Prep Time or Information of each other.
-Both start 100m away from each other.​

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VS

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"I don't need a dog that says no:" 0
"What a pitiful display. A wounded little bird thinking it can defy a god:" 0
Incon: 1 (AngeronTheSkyHighAnger)​

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

So uh... What stops the Low 2-C Reality Warping ?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

So uh... What stops the Low 2-C Reality Warping ?

She considers the idea of someone being so struck by her glory that they willingly unleash her onto the world to be more fitting of a goddess of her caliber.

The story of a terrible and bountiful god unbounded of her own will is no story at all. It's not worthy of everything I am or everything I'm bound to become. It isn't even worthy of what I was. The destruction and genesis that's to follow in my wake is deserving of a song that can echo for eternity. The song of you, being so struck by my glory, so overwhelmed by what I am, that you feel you must deliver me unto the world. And from your act of utter devotion and submission springs a new dawn. A better dawn.

So, she'll never really use it, at least not before her opponent has already submitted to her.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

bump

 

[MysticBrawler]

Would Makima's superiority complex end up weakening The Tower?

 

[AThe1412]

Would Makima's superiority complex end up weakening The Tower?

Not only that but it also makes her vulnerable to being controlled too, especially since Makima automatically views anyone who isn't Pochita or someone she knows is stronger to be inferior to her.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Would Makima's superiority complex end up weakening The Tower?

Potentially so. I'd be pretty difficult for her to maintain that mindset against the Tower, though.
Her influence will passively warp the cabin into a shrine that exudes such an overwhelming sense of scale that it'd make anyone inside feel incredibly small, with the Tower herself oozing so much power and confidence that Makima might place her in the "powerful beings" category, especially since she'd immediately force Makima to kneel before her.

 

[AThe1412]

Potentially so. I'd be pretty difficult for her to maintain that mindset against the Tower, though.
Her influence will passively warp the cabin into a shrine that exudes such an overwhelming sense of scale that it'd make anyone inside feel incredibly small, with the Tower herself oozing so much power and confidence that Makima might place her in the "powerful beings" category, especially since she'd immediately force Makima to kneel before her.

She's definitely seen things that are much more intimidating. Hell itself, for example, is the place where many powerful devils reside such as the Darkness Devil who embodies humanity's fear of darkness. It is a primordial devil which are the oldest and most feared devils, making them the most powerful as all primordial devils have never once experienced death. Makima faced and battled the Darkness Devil without any fear despite its ability to instill fear on anyone upon being observed to the point of driving them insane and compelling them to commit suicide. She obviously won't kneel to the Tower due to having Resistance to Mind Manipulation and being the devil that embodies the fear of being controlled.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

She obviously won't kneel to the Tower due to having Resistance to Mind Manipulation and being the devil that embodies the fear of being controlled.

Body Puppetry ≠ Mind Manipulation

 

[AThe1412]

Body Puppetry ≠ Mind Manipulation

She straight up has resistance to mind hax. It's on the profile.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

She straight up has resistance to mind hax. It's on the profile.

Yes. Body Puppetry isn't Mind Manipulation, it's more akin to Biological Manipulation.

 

[AThe1412]

Yes. Body Puppetry isn't Mind Manipulation, it's more akin to Biological Manipulation.

"Resistance to:

Mind Manipulation, Information Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, & Madness Manipulation (Types 1 - 3; remained unaffected by Cosmo's attempt to use her ability on her,[35][36] and showed no reaction to the Darkness Devil's presence, despite having stronger senses than the fiends who had perceived his presence.[17])"

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

"Resistance to:

Mind Manipulation, Information Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, & Madness Manipulation (Types 1 - 3; remained unaffected by Cosmo's attempt to use her ability on her,[35][36] and showed no reaction to the Darkness Devil's presence, despite having stronger senses than the fiends who had perceived his presence.[17])"

Body Puppetry

Body Puppetry is the ability to control the body or bodies of others. Unlike its counterparts Mind Manipulation and Possession, it does not work off controlling the mind or inhabiting a body, rather it functions by controlling another's body directly from a distance without affecting the soul or...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[AThe1412]

Body Puppetry

Body Puppetry is the ability to control the body or bodies of others. Unlike its counterparts Mind Manipulation and Possession, it does not work off controlling the mind or inhabiting a body, rather it functions by controlling another's body directly from a distance without affecting the soul or...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Oh wait, you meant the Tower? Bruh, I thought you were saying that Makima only had Body Puppetry. I'm looking at this on mobile so I have to scroll through the entire profile of the Princess to find the Tower's abilities and I missed it at a quick glance.
Well, it seems like an application of her Mind Manipulation to me since she doesn't showcase anything biological in this key unlike some of the other ones. Makima's Body Puppetry is also an application of her Mind Manipulation for example.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Well, it seems like an application of her Mind Manipulation to me since she doesn't showcase anything biological in this key unlike some of the other ones. Makima's Body Puppetry is also an application of her Mind Manipulation for example.

I don't think that's necessarily the case.

Makima's control is primarily Mind Manipulation, her Body Puppetry relegated to a "Likely" and limited to the undead.

All of the Tower's commands don't affect the Long Quiet's mind, and he's even able to express confusion on why his body is disobeying him.

The Tower: Drop it.
The Long Quiet: [Tighten your grip.]
The Narrator: As if on command, the blade slips from your grasp. It clatters uselessly to the floor.
Voice of the Hero: But we didn't drop it. We decided to grip it tighter, remember? Are you really just going to let that happen to us?
The Narrator: I have a duty to report facts as facts, and the fact is that you dropped the blade.

With her control even being directly stated to be that of the "body," and not "will."

The Tower: Stand.
The Voice of the Broken: This one's easy! See this isn't so bad.
Voice of the Hero: Okay. Yeah. We can do that. We were probably gonna stand anyway.
The Long Quiet: [Stand.]
The Narrator: You can feel a creaking tension between body and will as you slowly rise to your feet. Like two foes forced into an unhappy truce.

What she later does to the Narrator (Mind hax) is seemingly an entirely different ability.

Her Body Puppetry doesn't need to be of biological origin to work on Makima btw
Body Puppetry is sorta like Death hax, the ones with no explanation work on basically anyone who doesn't resist the abilities themselves.

 

[Catbowtie]

Coming in here without even reading the messages so I can avoid spoilers: The idea of Makima (and Goku, but this is Makima) getting back-seated by The Narrator and trying to figure out this cluster**** of lore is funny.

 

[AThe1412]

I don't think that's necessarily the case.

Makima's control is primarily Mind Manipulation, her Body Puppetry relegated to a "Likely" and limited to the undead.

All of the Tower's commands don't affect the Long Quiet's mind, and he's even able to express confusion on why his body is disobeying him.

With her control even being directly stated to be that of the "body," and not "will."

What she later does to the Narrator (Mind hax) is seemingly an entirely different ability.

Her Body Puppetry doesn't need to be of biological origin to work on Makima btw
Body Puppetry is sorta like Death hax, the ones with no explanation work on basically anyone who doesn't resist the abilities themselves.

Can she control multiple beings at once? Makima might lose control of her body but she can still control her devil minions to attack the Tower since the ability doesn't seem to affect her mind.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Can she control multiple beings at once? Makima might lose control of her body but she can still control her devil minions to attack the Tower since the ability doesn't seem to affect her mind.

We've only seen her use it on the Long Quiet. She was able to also take over the Narrator but that's a different ability. It'll likely depend on how Makima views it.
The Tower can read Makima's thoughts, so she could probably figure out what Makima is doing and just death hax the Devil Minions away tho

 

[AThe1412]

We've only seen her use it on the Long Quiet. She was able to also take over the Narrator but that's a different ability. It'll likely depend on how Makima views it.
The Tower can read Makima's thoughts, so she could probably figure out what Makima is doing and just death hax the Devil Minions away tho

That would require her to take control of the Narrator first which she doesn't do immediately.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

That would require her to take control of the Narrator first which she doesn't do immediately.

Could be so. Still, to reach this point Makima would have to consider the Tower an actual threat, so the Tower might be able to overpower the minions.

 

[AThe1412]

Could be so. Still, to reach this point Makima would have to consider the Tower an actual threat, so the Tower might be able to overpower the minions.

The Tower is 9-B while even the weakest hybrid devil in her army is 9-A. She doesn't really consider anyone or anything a true threat, even those who are more powerful than her, due to her contract that makes her effectively immortal so she wouldn't suddenly think that the Tower can kill her when the strongest of her verse can't and Denji needed a very specific method to achieve it. Also, wouldn't the Narrator be trying to convince anyone who enters the Construct that the Princess is weak?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

The Tower is 9-B while even the weakest hybrid devil in her army is 9-A. She doesn't really consider anyone or anything a true threat, even those who are more powerful than her, due to her contract that makes her effectively immortal so she wouldn't suddenly think that the Tower can kill her when the strongest of her verse can't and Denji needed a very specific method to achieve it. Also, wouldn't the Narrator be trying to convince anyone who enters the Construct that the Princess is weak?

Her Varies rating would place her far higher, I don't think Makima would view the 30 feet tall giant who's supposedly capable of ending the world as weaker than a Fiend.
As for the Narrator, he'll really just tell Makima that she needs to kill the Princess or she'll destroy the world, all the while asserting she's just an ordinary Princess, which really wouldn't work with the Tower.

 

[AThe1412]

Her Varies rating would place her far higher, I don't think Makima would view the 30 feet tall giant who's supposedly capable of ending the world as weaker than a Fiend.

There are a lot of giants in her verse, many of which are weaker than hybrids though. Of course, there are big devils that are actually strong but the point is that their appearances can be deceiving so Makima won't judge them based on that alone, not to mention the fact that she doesn't even "see" her enemies but rather "smell" them.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Not to mention the fact that she doesn't even "see" her enemies but rather "smell" them.

We know that the Tower makes the basement have the smell of incense, but that's about it really

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

bump

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

bump

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Bump

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Bump

 

[MysticBrawler]

It seems like Makima has the advantage here since she has resistances to Mind Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, while also having Resurrection so The Tower's go to moves probably won't work. By the way, what would happen if The Tower's Body Puppetry works and Makima assumes that the former has similar and/or the same powers as her?

 

[AThe1412]

Still waiting for CSM supporters.

It seems like Makima has the advantage here since she has resistances to Mind Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, while also having Resurrection so The Tower's go to moves probably won't work. By the way, what would happen if The Tower's Body Puppetry works and Makima assumes that the former has similar and/or the same powers as her?

Then the Tower gains her powers but that probably wouldn't happen.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

It seems like Makima has the advantage here since she has resistances to Mind Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, while also having Resurrection so The Tower's go to moves probably won't work.

The Tower's really only go-to move is Body Puppetry, but yes, Makima resists virtually every other ability the Tower could employ.

Still waiting for CSM supporters.

Same.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

bump

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

bump

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

This is kind of a weird match up? I have played slay the princess plenty of times (and have done the tower route) and I have read chainsaw man so I am pretty familiar with both.

This matchup in my opinion boils down to how Makima perceives Tower.

This match up is like trying balance the tip of the needle on a thin wire, either opponent can utterly annihilate the other if they simply make a wrong move. If Makima gets even slightly intimidated or has a intrusive thought and she's under the palms of the Tower. Same can be said for the princess too, if she shows a single moment of weakness this makes Makima perceive her as inferior and instantly befall under the control of Makima.

The Tower is a being of perception, she becomes stronger if you think she is. Makima takes control over people she perceives as inferior. So this is a coin toss basically.

Voting for Incon.