9-C characters try to take down Discord

[Peppersalt43]

I remember a period of time when there were a lot of matches involving Discord stomping characters comparable to him. I thought it would be funny to see completely lopsided matches and see if they stand a chance against him. Here are rules that apply for all the matches

-Discord is feeling pretty good today and would like to hear what his opponent has to say before fighting them
-Low 2-C version used
-All his opponents have full knowledge of MLP lore
-All of them have a 2 day prep time

First match, Dr. Clef

Clef's arguments
-Discord loves to talk, it's what he does when he visits Fluttershy
-Clef is one hell of a liar and his track record is very impressive (A good portion of them are actually true. We just don't know which).
-Clef is also a reality sink, being able to slowly erase anomalies by standing near them
-His wincon is talking to Discord and keeping his attention until he disappears, something that can actually happen
-He loses the moment Discord tries to read his mind since then he'd know that he's a reality sink
-Clef has one last trick up his sleeve as he resists reality bending, being able to barely resist SCP-239, a 2-A to Low 1-C reality bender. This falls apart however when Discord realizes he can just punch Clef

Second Match, John Constantine

Constantine's arguments
-I'm not too familiar with Constantine but he is known for tricking higher beings
-He can try to trick Discord into serving him or sealing himself
-If all that fails, he can summon a random higher being under his service. He has plenty of those

Third Match, Johan Liebert

Liebert's arguments
-Here's the thing about Discord, at his best, he has flaws. They're mainly insecurities caused by various things
-Insecurities are one of the things Johan loves to exploit
-For example, he can tell Discord that all his friends including, no, especially Fluttershy will die before him or he can convince Discord that the princesses are toying with him and see him only as a plaything. These are just examples, many more can be used and he wins even if all he does is return Discord to villainy as it means everyone will be hunting him down
-He loses if he somehow pisses off Discord as he has no resistances. Luckily that's completely OOC for Johan

Last Match, Phoenix Wright

Wright's arguments
-This one's an interesting one. Wright has sued Discord for the crimes he has committed.
-Discord's wincon is by making a clone of himself as his defendant
-Discord is allowed to use hax on anything besides the law and on anyone in the law firm (Meaning the lawyers, judges, witnesses, etc)
-Princess Luna is the judge

Write down below which 9-C characters can beat Discord based on the general rules. That or you can try and disprove anyone's arguments.

 

[Imaginym]

I remember a period of time when there were a lot of matches involving Discord stomping characters comparable to him. I thought it would be funny to see completely lopsided matches and see if they stand a chance against him. Here are rules that apply for all the matches

-Discord is feeling pretty good today and would like to hear what his opponent has to say before fighting them
-Low 2-C version used
-All his opponents have full knowledge of MLP lore
-All of them have a 2 day prep time

First match, Dr. Clef

Clef's arguments
-Discord loves to talk, it's what he does when he visits Fluttershy
-Clef is one hell of a liar and his track record is very impressive (A good portion of them are actually true. We just don't know which).
-Clef is also a reality sink, being able to slowly erase anomalies by standing near them
-His wincon is talking to Discord and keeping his attention until he disappears, something that can actually happen
-He loses the moment Discord tries to read his mind since then he'd know that he's a reality sink
-Clef has one last trick up his sleeve as he resists reality bending, being able to barely resist SCP-239, a 2-A to Low 1-C reality bender. This falls apart however when Discord realizes he can just punch Clef

Clef may or may not have not noticed a problem with his brilliant plan.
Immortality (Types 1, 2, 3, Often dismembers himself with no problems and could think/remain conscious despite being turned to stone, and possibly 8 via scaling to Cosmos)
Abstract Existence (Is a similar being to Cosmos in that both embody a concept, and even while depowered Cosmos has strongly implied she cannot be destroyed because the concept she embodies cannot)
Namely that him likely having Type 8, for, among other things, embodying Chaos & Disharmony, means that he might not actually disappear that easily, if at all.
If he does start to disappear, he'll probably realize this is all a ploy, since Discord is a schemer, & unless you're FORCING him to listen as long as Clef talks (As long as it takes.), he'll likely have enough time to try to RW Clef, see that it doesn't work, & then:

A. Get rid of Clef by proxy (For example, create something, like a big rock, or a weapon & kill them with that, or manipulate something physical. Ex: Telekinesis the very much real floorboard at an end Clef isn't standing on, so that the leverage of the other, still mundane, un-TK'd end is moved upwards by the TK'd end being moved upwards; Effectively, catapulting Clef with a seesaw motion, using very real stuff that isn't being manipulated, but IS affected by a chain reaction of other manipulated stuff, getting around Clef's resistance to (Presumably just direct forms of) Reality Warping.

B. Leave & stay out of range, mark Dr. Clef is an enemy.

(If you're forcing him to NEVER STOP listening to him, maybe skirt the rules through Dimensional Travel/Portal Creation, & Interdimensional Portal Range, so that Clef can keep talking to him through that, or have some kind of enchantment writing down or broadcasting what Clef says, so that Discord can do so more remotely. Maybe refresh it every once in a while.)

Second Match, John Constantine

Constantine's arguments
-I'm not too familiar with Constantine but he is known for tricking higher beings
-He can try to trick Discord into serving him or sealing himself

In theory he could, but what actual arguments or tricks do we know that he'd use? & if Discord doesn't like it, how do we know he won't just BFR Mr. Undesirable-offerer away?

Third Match, Johan Liebert

Liebert's arguments
-Here's the thing about Discord, at his best, he has flaws. They're mainly insecurities caused by various things
-Insecurities are one of the things Johan loves to exploit
-For example, he can tell Discord that all his friends including, no, especially Fluttershy will die before him or he can convince Discord that the princesses are toying with him and see him only as a plaything. These are just examples, many more can be used and he wins even if all he does is return Discord to villainy as it means everyone will be hunting him down
-He loses if he somehow pisses off Discord as he has no resistances. Luckily that's completely OOC for Johan

....Why would threatening the death of his friends NOT get Discord angry enough to just seal Johan in the moon or something? (Like Discord did to Cosmos.)

Last Match, Phoenix Wright

Wright's arguments
-This one's an interesting one. Wright has sued Discord for the crimes he has committed.
-Discord's wincon is by making a clone of himself as his defendant
-Discord is allowed to use hax on anything besides the law and on anyone in the law firm (Meaning the lawyers, judges, witnesses, etc)
-Princess Luna is the judge

I would assume Discord declares a mistrial, or pleads his defense on the ground that he's the Spirit of Chaos, he's supposed to exist, otherwise, there'd be no Chaos, & also, Equestria is out of Phoenix's jurisdiction, & that he's already redeemed himself by helping the Bearers of the Elements of Harmony for friendship, & IIRC, under Celestia's overseeing, no less. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure his existence & freedom is approved by Princess Twilight Sparkle.

What's the case for the JUDGE not being put on trial for insanity, given she's trying to throw the embodiment of a concept into jail for being who he is, & "crimes" he's practically already been pardoned for by international heroes & at least 1 or 2 other princesses?


Hopefully I'm not misunderstanding this thread & arguing it fine.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Hopefully I'm not misunderstanding this thread & arguing it fine.

No no, it's perfectly fine. I actually want arguments. See if any of these are viable to put in an actual versus thread. I'll be addressing these tomorrow

 

[Imaginym]

No no, it's perfectly fine. I actually want arguments. See if any of these are viable to put in an actual versus thread. I'll be addressing these tomorrow

Ah, alright. On the assumption that you're going to sleep (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (Not just about this, of course, lol.) about this, lol.), I'll say this:
Good "night" & sleep well!

 

[Peppersalt43]

Clef may or may not have not noticed a problem with his brilliant plan.
Immortality (Types 1, 2, 3, Often dismembers himself with no problems and could think/remain conscious despite being turned to stone, and possibly 8 via scaling to Cosmos)
Abstract Existence (Is a similar being to Cosmos in that both embody a concept, and even while depowered Cosmos has strongly implied she cannot be destroyed because the concept she embodies cannot)
Namely that him likely having Type 8, for, among other things, embodying Chaos & Disharmony, means that he might not actually disappear that easily, if at all.
If he does start to disappear, he'll probably realize this is all a ploy, since Discord is a schemer, & unless you're FORCING him to listen as long as Clef talks (As long as it takes.), he'll likely have enough time to try to RW Clef, see that it doesn't work, & then:

Forcing? No you can't force a being like him to listen.

There is a tale that I love regarding the administrator taking down a higher being who doesn't embody a concept by bringing it to a place where it will embody one, mainly a humanoid. The admin literally shoots the higher being with a shotgun and proceeds to beat it up with a chair to death. Discord already has a form, Clef doesn't need to go to the lengths of his superior to trick his opponent.

Also Discord has demonstrated the ability to be erased. I don't know if he was fully conscious or aware since he was simping hard for Fluttershy at the time but one can assume he knows he's erasing himself. Also he doesn't need to do the stuff you just listed. I did say he can just punch Clef and he one-shots

Funniest thing is if he needs to keep someone's attention for a long time, he actually has a comedic list for him to brag and it's not even his feats, it's Dr. Bright's. And lastly due to him being a rather old character, he still maintains some traits from the LOLFoundation run. Most of them have been fleshed out to make him a character but he can commit wacky stuff occasionally if it means containing an entity. So it's probably in-character for him to do something like this

Clef : Hey Discord, spell 1252-PCS backwards
Discord : Of course, it's SCP-2521
SCP-2521 : Whomst has summoned the accursed one?
Discord gets consumed

It probably won't go exactly like this but you get the point. There are a good amount of memetics and infohazards one can use simply by speaking and he can slip one just like that.

In theory he could, but what actual arguments or tricks do we know that he'd use? & if Discord doesn't like it, how do we know he won't just BFR Mr. Undesirable-offerer away?

First of all, Constantine has BFR resistance in his profile

Anyway, here are his feats of trickery. Combined with prior knowledge, he can probably pull something out to help him

....Why would threatening the death of his friends NOT get Discord angry enough to just seal Johan in the moon or something? (Like Discord did to Cosmos.)

This is basically based on the common downside of immortality, that your loved ones will die before you. Johan can just say that he can stay around and do nothing and they will still die slowly. Essentially, why bother trying to appease people who will one day no longer be there to stop you? Why try to make any relationships when they would always, ALWAYS die before you? And why try to do anything when you would live long enough to see someone outdo whatever it is you have done? Immortality sucks in certain aspects and many times higher beings or just ageless beings in general compliments mortality.

That or he can take a different route, using his opponent's guilt to his advantage. Here's Johan's feat of killing someone with guilt


And to make matters worse, Johan is a soft spoken polite man. Guess which character Discord loves hanging out with the most?

I would assume Discord declares a mistrial, or pleads his defense on the ground that he's the Spirit of Chaos, he's supposed to exist, otherwise, there'd be no Chaos, & also, Equestria is out of Phoenix's jurisdiction, & that he's already redeemed himself by helping the Bearers of the Elements of Harmony for friendship, & IIRC, under Celestia's overseeing, no less. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure his existence & freedom is approved by Princess Twilight Sparkle.

What's the case for the JUDGE not being put on trial for insanity, given she's trying to throw the embodiment of a concept into jail for being who he is, & "crimes" he's practically already been pardoned for by international heroes & at least 1 or 2 other princesses?

Luna's a monarch, plain and simple. I'm pretty sure Celestia has a war crime somewhere in her records but we don't know that because it's a children show or because she covered it up.

Discord on the other hand is an ex-convict under parole. I'm surprised he was forgiven after what he did in the season 4 and season 9 finale. But anyways any minor crime can be used against a parolee to give send them back to prison and for this occasion, I'll be using Season 8 Episode 14. Here's the in a nutshell version for simplicity sake


In that one episode he committed fraud, property destruction, and most importantly, child endangerment! And the fact that his reasoning sounds like something out of bad writing (Instead of just plain insanity) means that he's probably accountable for what he's done

 

[Imaginym]

Forcing? No you can't force a being like him to listen.

There is a tale that I love regarding the administrator taking down a higher being who doesn't embody a concept by bringing it to a place where it will embody one, mainly a humanoid. The admin literally shoots the higher being with a shotgun and proceeds to beat it up with a chair to death. Discord already has a form, Clef doesn't need to go to the lengths of his superior to trick his opponent.

Discord likely does embody a concept, though, & can be physical, & Regeneration (Mid-High. Regenerated from a cloud of dust) says Cleft tries shooting him, & Discord gets annoyed, I imagine.
Also: Conceptual Manipulation (Was changed so thoroughly that the very concept he embodied changed from chaos to order and was able to change back at any time)
If Discord's conceptual nature WERE changed, it seems to me, like he would be able to change it back.

Also Discord has demonstrated the ability to be erased. I don't know if he was fully conscious or aware since he was simping hard for Fluttershy at the time but one can assume he knows he's erasing himself.

IIRC, isn't him being orderly a VERY gradual process of weakening himself towards existence? & in that case, it's because of his own actions undermining his concepts; It's a little antithetical for the Spirit of Disharmony to be Harmonious.

Also, I'm unsure if it's entirely relevant, but:
Power Nullification (Resisted Twilight's attempt to reverse his magic, Was unaffected by the Smooze's ability to nullify magic)
Probability Manipulation/Causality Manipulation/Law Manipulation (Discord's chaos negates normal effects of probability, causality, and universal laws due to lacking the logic that makes them work normally), Dream Manipulation (Can keep Luna out of his mind)
Corruption (Type 1, anyone comparable to or superior to Celestia should be able to resist corruption via sheer magical power) (Although, this is the Physical kind of Corruption.)
Transmutation (Has been transmuted and simply changed back), and Conceptual Manipulation (Discord was only changed by the cosmic conjunction because he allowed it to happen, and as Accord, promptly changed back on a whim)

Discord doesn't resist Existence Erasure specifically, but he resists a lot of things that are probably similar, or involved in the ability. For example, if it's a Law/Rule or element of Causality that anomalies being near Dr. Clef gets them erased, this might not work on him.

Funniest thing is if he needs to keep someone's attention for a long time, he actually has a comedic list for him to brag and it's not even his feats, it's Dr. Bright's. And lastly due to him being a rather old character, he still maintains some traits from the LOLFoundation run. Most of them have been fleshed out to make him a character but he can commit wacky stuff occasionally if it means containing an entity. So it's probably in-character for him to do something like this

I can imagine this, but given Discord's conceit, how are we sure he wouldn't get bored, or dismiss Clef without proof, or decide he needs to do something more chaotic than just talking, & leave on the spot?
Or, given Discord's experience in schemes (Planting a seed in the Tree of Harmony thousands of years in advance, or something like that, IIRC, & tricking Cozy Glow, Chrysalis & Tirek in a long con.), as well as deceiving the Mane 6; I can believe Discord isn't smarter than Clef, but you don't need to be smarter to realize someone is trying to keep you there for some reason, & even if he doesn't know why, he can still just leave/kill him, as you said.

Clef : Hey Discord, spell 1252-PCS backwards
Discord : Of course, it's SCP-2521
SCP-2521 : Whomst has summoned the accursed one?
Discord gets consumed

It probably won't go exactly like this but you get the point. There are a good amount of memetics and infohazards one can use simply by speaking and he can slip one just like that.

I don't get the point. SCP-2521 seems to lack a profile on VSBW, so how it works, its relevance, & arguably, its capabilities, especially to be used against Discord are questionable, even if it's profile were more than just images, even if they're somewhat understandable.

& obviously, it might not go like that. Discord is the Spirit of Chaos & Disharmony. Given an instruction like that, he'd probably defy it by spelling it another language, challenging it as though it were a word proposal in Scrabble, or conjure up some obscure tome to cast the spell from section 1252-PCS, among a bunch of other possibilities.
Point is, something like that doesn't seem like it'll necessarily succeed.

First of all, Constantine has BFR resistance in his profile

Fair.

Anyway, here are his feats of trickery. Combined with prior knowledge, he can probably pull something out to help him

While I don't deny his smarts, what are the in-character ways he could & WOULD try to trick Discord? What does he lead with?

This is basically based on the common downside of immortality, that your loved ones will die before you. Johan can just say that he can stay around and do nothing and they will still die slowly. Essentially, why bother trying to appease people who will one day no longer be there to stop you? Why try to make any relationships when they would always, ALWAYS die before you? And why try to do anything when you would live long enough to see someone outdo whatever it is you have done? Immortality sucks in certain aspects and many times higher beings or just ageless beings in general compliments mortality.

This runs into the problem of, we may not know, because of a lack of information on how such matters affect Discord; If they haven't happened in a story, how do we know how they'd debilitate him?
But if I had to speculate at answers for Discord on how he might confront these questions:
"Because I'll still have the memories of them. If you ever had friends, you would know that. & I won't do nothing. I'll be with my friends, & make memories that will last longer than them, me or negative nellies like you."
Also, some alicorns & other magical beings might be able to rival Discord's lifespan.
Do something because he is the spirit is Chaos! It is fun, & it is who he is, & by doing it, he knows the satisfaction that he could do it, even if he wasn't as good as someone else.
He lived thousands of years, & spent one of those milennia isolated through petrification. He might not have wanted for friends, but he knows what it's like to wait to be able to interact with others again, to have fun, for better or for worse. & they're always be more ponies.

Maybe if he's good enough to the generations today, the generations of tomorrow will see him in a better light. For Chaos is change, & what is hope but change for the better?


....Or something like that. I'm merely speculating. Maybe Discord will say a bunch of nonsense in response, perhaps to mock Johan's attempts at philosophy, or get annoyed at how droll & depressing Johan is, or question his motives. Or just force Johan into some kind of magical game to make things more entertaining.
"What compells a person to go up to a stranger & try to make them miserable? ...Well, okay, I've done that before. But it's not right when you do it!"

But again, speculation.

That or he can take a different route, using his opponent's guilt to his advantage. Here's Johan's feat of killing someone with guilt

Would his actions in this scene be something he opens with Vs Discord?

And to make matters worse, Johan is a soft spoken polite man. Guess which character Discord loves hanging out with the most?

Fluttershy, obviously. But she's his friend because she's spoken out for him, cared for his safety & well-being, & shows care towards not just Discord, but animals, showing she's genuine, often even when he's been acting disreputably.

Johan might have prior knowledge, but his goal is still misery & distrust among someone who's gained faith in their friends, & been there for many lessons about friendship specifically.
Discord might often slip up into conflicts with his friends, but IIRC, usually not trying to hurt them without extreme measures. & Discord's already been burned once by someone who was pretending to be his friend with Tirek. All this, & being a skilled manipulator himself, & Johan likely always trying to drive Discord towards depression or distrust feels like Discord would be tipped off, & then be mad.

Luna's a monarch, plain and simple. I'm pretty sure Celestia has a war crime somewhere in her records but we don't know that because it's a children show or because she covered it up.

The junior of the two monarchs, & if we wanna talk war crimes.... Luna is still the one who got envious of her big sister in their co-ruler relationship, went insane, tried to forcefully take sole rulership of Equestria. Attemped overthrowing your own sibling as monarch, & attempted regicide?
& when released, she was insane (Perhaps not for faults of her own, but insane nonetheless.), to attempt to inflict eternal darkness on all of Equestria, likely knowing the suffering that would cause, & possibly inconsiderate of the environmental consequences this would have, too.

Not to mention, while she's not been a perfect ruler, & Celestia still generally acts benevolently & in Equestria's best interests.

Discord on the other hand is an ex-convict under parole. I'm surprised he was forgiven after what he did in the season 4 and season 9 finale.

But he was forgiven nonetheless.

But anyways any minor crime can be used against a parolee to give send them back to prison and for this occasion, I'll be using Season 8 Episode 14. Here's the in a nutshell version for simplicity sake

A Matter of Principals?

In that one episode he committed fraud, property destruction, and most importantly, child endangerment! And the fact that his reasoning sounds like something out of bad writing (Instead of just plain insanity) means that he's probably accountable for what he's done

Yes, Discord did those things, but Starlight took matters into her own hooves by banishing him, & when that didn't work & he still caused trouble, she still took the matter into her own hooves... by acting as a guidance counselor. Where she apologized to him for leaving him out of the school activities which was why he did all those bad things to begin with (Besides being the spirit of Chaos, after all; At school, or not?), & offers him the position of "Vice-Headmare", which he accepts.

& if there are off-screen war crimes, we as the audience don't know about it, & so we can't well account for them. You wanna call Celestia a war criminal, you provide evidence, especially in a debate about a theoretical court of law! Same for any other pony, dragon, equine or draconequs! (Or human, given the possible involvement here.)

I won't deny he did crimes. He DID commit crimes, after all.
But at the time, Starlight was in charge of the school, & regardless of the reasons why, Discord acted out because he felt left out of a public institution by Starlight's actions.
& serious employment as "Vice Headmare" or not, the fact remains that Starlight apologized for leaving him out & offered a job.

Ergo, what I'd argue for his court case is that, given Starlight apologized & gave him a job (Albeit, temporary), it can be assumed she dropped the charges. & being in charge of the school, the safety of the students was her responsibility, which she jeapoardized by unfairly refusing admission to a minority out of misunderstanding & prejudice.
Ergo, had it not been for her unfriendly actions as Headmare & forceful banishment of someone who just wanted to be a student, Discord would not have performed the crimes he did, & the blame falls on Starlight for prioritizing prejudice based on past experience over someone who's behaviour is known as a notedly different culture, & is attempting to be reformed by monarchs & national heroes.

Thus, the blame for the property damage & the students falls on Starlight. However, as headmare at the time, & the one who discriminated to begin with, her dropping of the charges, & acceptance into the school, as temporary faculty or otherwise, still stand.


....Meanwhile, Phoenix Wright, was apparently appointed prosecutor, when his history is as a Defense Lawyer in murder cases, so I'd say he's a little out of his element. For all his skill, he may blunder here, especially if he's in an unfamiliar court system.
& with his prosecution having dropped the charges, the judge of questionable sanity in her history, imprisoning a necessary element (Chaos) of the universe being a bad idea (& shown not to work, since he broke out eventually, & might just cause trouble for a future generation.), & the Princess of Friendship & the other Bearers of Harmony likely already being in support of reform for him, I don't think that fails.

I also say it's a little questionable to have the court allow Discord's clone to act as his defendant. While he knows himself well, both are of questionable sanity. So that just puts the validity of this trial further into question.
Alternatively, we can point out that you specified:
"-Discord's wincon is by making a clone of himself as his defendant"
But you have not specified anything as a win condition for Phoenix Wright.
Discord is on trial, & Discord's clone is his [Discord's] defendant. Since the clone is also Discord, they agree to have Discord the clone act as HIS OWN [Discord Clone's] defendant.
The original Discord walks out, because he's not on trial anymore, his clone is, & as you specified by omission in the OP, Phoenix Wright has no win condition here.
(& if the trial was made with Discord, THE Singular Embodiment of Chaos in Equestria as an individual in mind, the court probably will have to be postponed & retried if they try to say there's now multiple defendants, &/or that who has an attorney has now changed)

Also, the citizens who aren't witnesses aren't part of the court trial, right?


Hopefully I'm not being unpleasant.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Hopefully I'm not being unpleasant.

Oh no no, it's fine. This the most fun I've ever had since the thread where Chrysalis tried to assassinate Odin. One of my favorite types of fights are the ones where the character simply has to say the right things. I'm not very good at scaling at calculating and on the flipside, I love trying to get into a character's head and try to figure out what they would do when faced with a certain situation.

Anyways the one thing I learned from your explanation is Clef is not equipped to deal with Discord which is a shame but I should've seen it coming

I don't get the point. SCP-2521 seems to lack a profile on VSBW, so how it works, its relevance, & arguably, its capabilities, especially to be used against Discord are questionable, even if it's profile were more than just images, even if they're somewhat understandable.

& obviously, it might not go like that. Discord is the Spirit of Chaos & Disharmony. Given an instruction like that, he'd probably defy it by spelling it another language, challenging it as though it were a word proposal in Scrabble, or conjure up some obscure tome to cast the spell from section 1252-PCS, among a bunch of other possibilities.
Point is, something like that doesn't seem like it'll necessarily succeed.

I know, it's a joke.

While I don't deny his smarts, what are the in-character ways he could & WOULD try to trick Discord? What does he lead with?

Against opponents who are sapient and are willing to speak civilly with him, Constantine would try to give them something, usually accepting or offering a deal which later revealed, is a ruse all along. Since Discord has almost anything, he would probably just try to invite him to DnD or something before slowly and subconsciously attempting to shift him into a lawful alignment, something that can kill him. Due to his experiences, he can probably create a rather amusing run, possibly involving convincing a bard to seduce a death god (I don't know if he's ever done this but it seems in-character for him).

That or he can invite him to DnD at the Oblivion Bar while using the most frustrating map. At some point, someone's gonna get pissed off and ruin the experience and Discord would probably dislike that. Even if he comes on top, Constantine still gets a few enemies off his back so win-win

This runs into the problem of, we may not know, because of a lack of information on how such matters affect Discord; If they haven't happened in a story, how do we know how they'd debilitate him?
But if I had to speculate at answers for Discord on how he might confront these questions:
"Because I'll still have the memories of them. If you ever had friends, you would know that. & I won't do nothing. I'll be with my friends, & make memories that will last longer than them, me or negative nellies like you."
Also, some alicorns & other magical beings might be able to rival Discord's lifespan.
Do something because he is the spirit is Chaos! It is fun, & it is who he is, & by doing it, he knows the satisfaction that he could do it, even if he wasn't as good as someone else.
He lived thousands of years, & spent one of those milennia isolated through petrification. He might not have wanted for friends, but he knows what it's like to wait to be able to interact with others again, to have fun, for better or for worse. & they're always be more ponies.

Maybe if he's good enough to the generations today, the generations of tomorrow will see him in a better light. For Chaos is change, & what is hope but change for the better?


....Or something like that. I'm merely speculating. Maybe Discord will say a bunch of nonsense in response, perhaps to mock Johan's attempts at philosophy, or get annoyed at how droll & depressing Johan is, or question his motives. Or just force Johan into some kind of magical game to make things more entertaining.
"What compells a person to go up to a stranger & try to make them miserable? ...Well, okay, I've done that before. But it's not right when you do it!"

This entire explanation made me realize it's way easier to exploit Discord's guilt instead of immortality. Think about it, season 9's finale happened because he thought he could try and reform the villains without any help. Nobody's pressuring him BTW. Everyone's mostly supportive of him and still he decides to impersonate an ancient being and get a group of criminals to overcome their second greatest weakness, their unwillingness to work together.

If this is impulse, what would happen if someone pushes him? He can create a suicide squad! Or something along the lines of that...

Would his actions in this scene be something he opens with Vs Discord?

With prior knowledge, yeah... I realize that while writing the immortality jabs that I've been using fanon Discord as a character base and I apologize for such a mistake. In many of those, Discord commits heinous acts simply out of fear of outlasting everyone. Looking through his canon episodes, exploiting guilt is way easier and Johan has done it before with great results.

So yes, he will start with guilt

The junior of the two monarchs, & if we wanna talk war crimes.... Luna is still the one who got envious of her big sister in their co-ruler relationship, went insane, tried to forcefully take sole rulership of Equestria. Attemped overthrowing your own sibling as monarch, & attempted regicide?
& when released, she was insane (Perhaps not for faults of her own, but insane nonetheless.), to attempt to inflict eternal darkness on all of Equestria, likely knowing the suffering that would cause, & possibly inconsiderate of the environmental consequences this would have, too.

Not to mention, while she's not been a perfect ruler, & Celestia still generally acts benevolently & in Equestria's best interests.

But he was forgiven nonetheless.

A Matter of Principals?

Yes, Discord did those things, but Starlight took matters into her own hooves by banishing him, & when that didn't work & he still caused trouble, she still took the matter into her own hooves... by acting as a guidance counselor. Where she apologized to him for leaving him out of the school activities which was why he did all those bad things to begin with (Besides being the spirit of Chaos, after all; At school, or not?), & offers him the position of "Vice-Headmare", which he accepts.

& if there are off-screen war crimes we as the audience don't know about it, we can't well account for them. You wanna call Celestia a war criminal, you providence, especially in a debate about a theoretical court of law! Same for any other pony, dragon, equine or draconequs! (Or human, given the possible involvement here.)

I won't deny he did crimes. He DID commit crimes, after all.
But at the time, Starlight was in charge of the school, & regardless of the reasons why, Discord acted out because he felt left out of a public institution by Starlight's actions.
& serious employment as "Vice Headmare" or not, the fact remains that Starlight apologized for leaving him out & offered a job.

Ergo, what I'd argue for his court case is that, given Starlight apologized & gave him a job (Albeit, temporary), it can be assumed she dropped the charges. & being in charge of the school, the safety of the students was her responsibility, which she jeapoardized by unfairly refusing admission to a minority out of misunderstanding & prejudice.
Ergo, had it not been for her unfriendly actions as Headmare & forceful banishment of someone who just wanted to be a student, Discord would not have performed the crimes he did, & the blame falls on Starlight for prioritizing prejudice based on past experience over someone who's behaviour is known as a notedly different culture, & is attempting to be reformed by monarchs & national heroes.

Thus, the blame for the property damage & the students falls on Starlight. However, as headmare at the time, & the one who discriminated to begin with, her dropping of the charges, & acceptance into the school, as temporary faculty or otherwise, still stand.


....Meanwhile, Phoenix Wright, was apparently appointed prosecutor, when his history is as a Defense Lawyer in murder cases, so I'd say he's a little out of his element. For all his skill, he may blunder here, especially if he's in an unfamiliar court system.
& with his prosecution having dropped the charges, the judge of questionable sanity in her history, imprisoning a necessary element (Chaos) of the universe being a bad idea (& shown not to work, since he broke out eventually, & might just cause trouble for a future generation.), & the Princess of Friendship & the other Bearers of Harmony likely already being in support of reform for him, I don't think that fails.

I also say it's a little questionable to have the court allow Discord's clone to act as his defendant. While he knows himself well, both are of questionable sanity. So that just puts the validity of this trial further into question.
Alternatively, we can point out that you specified:
"-Discord's wincon is by making a clone of himself as his defendant"
But you specified for Phoenix Wright.
Discord is on trial, & Discord's clone is his [Discord's] defendant. Since the clone is also Discord, they agree to have Discord the clone act as HIS OWN [Discord Clone's] defendant.
The original Discord walks out, because he's not on trial anymore, his clone is, & as you specified by omission in the OP, Phoenix Wright has no win condition here.
(& if the trial was made with Discord, THE Singular Embodiment of Chaos in Equestria as an individual in mind, the court probably will have to be postponed & retried if they try to say there's now multiple defendants, &/or that who has an attorney has now changed)

Also, the citizens who aren't witnesses aren't part of the court trial, right?

I am never again making a court battle in a series without a canon court scene

 

[Imaginym]

Oh no no, it's fine. This the most fun I've ever had since the thread where Chrysalis tried to assassinate Odin. One of my favorite types of fights are the ones where the character simply has to say the right things. I'm not very good at scaling at calculating and on the flipside, I love trying to get into a character's head and try to figure out what they would do when faced with a certain situation.

Yeah, it's fun.

Anyways the one thing I learned from your explanation is Clef is not equipped to deal with Discord which is a shame but I should've seen it coming

Lol.

I know, it's a joke.

Fair. I was in part having fun with the suggestion. In theory, maybe there's other relevant SCPs Clef might think to involve.

Against opponents who are sapient and are willing to speak civilly with him, Constantine would try to give them something, usually accepting or offering a deal which later revealed, is a ruse all along. Since Discord has almost anything, he would probably just try to invite him to DnD or something before slowly and subconsciously attempting to shift him into a lawful alignment, something that can kill him.

Besides the matter of what being merely OFFERED with no proof it's "on the table" would sway Discord (A game is a possibility.), there may be a problem with trying to shift Discord to Lawful.
Discord's Classification for his Accord Key? "Spirit of Order and Harmony"
& the tabber for that?:
"Same as before plus Nigh-Omnipresence (Exists in the hearts of all who desire order and can manifest himself through these people)"
& his Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation's Justification: Conceptual Manipulation (Discord was only changed by the cosmic conjunction because he allowed it to happen, and as Accord, promptly changed back on a whim)

So how do we know Discord doesn't go Lawful for the game of D&D, & then, when he's feeling done with that, just switches himself back? He has responsibilities to be the Spirit of Chaos, after all.

Due to his experiences, he can probably create a rather amusing run, possibly involving convincing a bard to seduce a death god (I don't know if he's ever done this but it seems in-character for him).

Maybe. Might be kinda interesting.

That or he can invite him to DnD at the Oblivion Bar while using the most frustrating map.

Dunno what these are.

At some point, someone's gonna get pissed off and ruin the experience and Discord would probably dislike that. Even if he comes on top, Constantine still gets a few enemies off his back so win-win

Is that a win-with with Constantine by getting his enemies out of debt to him? (Also, IIRC, I think Discord did actually play a D&D esque game with Spike & Big Mac at least once.)

This entire explanation made me realize it's way easier to exploit Discord's guilt instead of immortality. Think about it, season 9's finale happened because he thought he could try and reform the villains without any help. Nobody's pressuring him BTW. Everyone's mostly supportive of him and still he decides to impersonate an ancient being and get a group of criminals to overcome their second greatest weakness, their unwillingness to work together.

If this is impulse, what would happen if someone pushes him? He can create a suicide squad! Or something along the lines of that...

Interesting theory. It could be that &/or his natural conceit, &/or to break tradition of villains not getting along, maybe, but I don't remember the whole plot.

With prior knowledge, yeah... I realize that while writing the immortality jabs that I've been using fanon Discord as a character base and I apologize for such a mistake. In many of those, Discord commits heinous acts simply out of fear of outlasting everyone. Looking through his canon episodes, exploiting guilt is way easier and Johan has done it before with great results.

No big deal.

So yes, he will start with guilt

I could see Discord getting guilted.... &/or getting irritated. Like I said:
....Or something like that. I'm merely speculating. Maybe Discord will say a bunch of nonsense in response, perhaps to mock Johan's attempts at philosophy, or get annoyed at how droll & depressing Johan is, or question his motives. Or just force Johan into some kind of magical game to make things more entertaining.
"What compells a person to go up to a stranger & try to make them miserable? ...Well, okay, I've done that before. But it's not right when you do it!"

I am never again making a court battle in a series without a canon court scene

Lol. Sorry to dishearten you, but glad for your indulgement.