8-C Deltarune is kil

[Arceus0x]

Currently mid-high tiers of Deltarune scale to 8-C via this calc right here.
The issue? It shouldn't scale to anyone really.
Here's the deal. In the same chapter we saw a feat which had a similar approach where Berdley tanked the explosion of a amusement ride cart. It was fine because Berdley was inside the cart when it happened. This feat, however, doesn't follow the same rules. The explosion happens from inside the duck as the explosion itself is rather small and it vaporizes the duck. The energy we see in the calc would be wasted on the destruction of the machine's body rather than on the attack, thus explaining why the radius of the actual explosion is rather small. This would mean that Kris got hit with minor remnants that blew through the duck and hit him, rather than the full explosion, as he would need to be in the middle of it to actually scale to it.
Overall, Deltarune would go back to this 9-A feat and many fodder would scale lower. That is all.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Agree + Mid game + Bad ost

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Currently mid-high tiers of Deltarune scale to 8-C via this calc right here.
The issue? It shouldn't scale to anyone really.
Here's the deal. In the same chapter we saw a feat which had a similar approach where Berdley tanked the explosion of a amusement ride cart. It was fine because Berdley was inside the cart when it happened. This feat, however, doesn't follow the same rules. The explosion happens from inside the duck as the explosion itself is rather small and it vaporizes the duck. The energy we see in the calc would be wasted on the destruction of the machine's body rather than on the attack, thus explaining why the radius of the actual explosion is rather small. This would mean that Kris got hit with minor remnants that blew through the duck and hit him, rather than the full explosion, as he would need to be in the middle of it to actually scale to it.
Overall, Deltarune would go back to this 9-A feat and many fodder would scale lower. That is all.

You're equating two completely different explosions for no reason at all, there is no evidence they have the same potency just because Toby decided to use the same meme-y gif.

Either way, this is terrible because you can literally walk into the explosion and you'd still get unharmed. You don't really know the Law of Convertion of Energy, energy doesn't get "wasted" in the materials it passes through when it's so great it can basically vaporize everything in it's path. Everyone should absolutely scale to this feat.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Agree + Mid game + Bad ost

Now's your chance to be a [Big Shot]

 

[Arceus0x]

You're equating two completely different explosions for no reason at all, there is no evidence they have the same potency just because Toby decided to use the same meme-y gif.

never said that. moving on.

Either way, this is terrible because you can literally walk into the explosion and you'd still get unharmed. You don't really know the Law of Convertion of Energy, energy doesn't get "wasted" in the materials it passes through when it's so great it can basically vaporize everything in it's path. Everyone should absolutely scale to this feat.

If I blow up a bunker and there's just enough energy to destroy it, the energy that reaches outside of it will be dispersed enough to be way lower than the energy in the epicenter of the explosion. Even if the energy didn't get partially dispersed through the whole machine whilst destroying it, Kris would not be hurt by the same energy but rather the energy's potency at the radius of the machine and would only be hit in the area of effect where he is, lowering the results heavily. the characters may not be drawn 3 dimensionally but they are 3d, Kris would still be at a certain distance from the duck and even if you run into it, you wouldn't be hit with the energy at the epicenter of the explosion.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

My real problem with that is that the feat is clarely a gag. You take only 1 point of damage. Do you really think that this shit was meant to be a all powerful attack? Not even the hightiers are capable to reach this level of AP via their own feats that by the way give you way more damage, but somehow a duck exploding in a gag scene is for some reason take more seriouly than any other calc

 

[StrymULTRA]

I genuinely agree, that thing always felt wrong with me.

Maybe just using ISQ on Kris so we get another 9-A calc? It's the same principle as our Joseph Joestar dura calc after all.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Actually , just realized that the 9-A feat is also wrong. That's not how psi values work anymore. To use 20 PSI currently you would need a showcase of the explosion having a great destruction, such as in a building, something that doesnt happen in the scene

 

[StrymULTRA]

Actually , just realized that the 9-A feat is also wrong. That's not how psi values work anymore. To use 20 PSI currently you would need a showcase of the explosion having a great destruction, such as in a building, something that doesnt happen in the scene

It still completely destroys the duck, so that's a minimum still.

Plus it sums the fragmentation with the duck destruction anyway.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

never said that. moving on.

If I blow up a bunker and there's just enough energy to destroy it.

There's your mistake. There isn't "just enough energy to destroy it", it vaporized it instantly, meaning most of the energy was still intact.

the characters may not be drawn 3 dimensionally but they are 3d, Kris would still be at a certain distance from the duck and even if you run into it, you wouldn't be hit with the energy at the epicenter of the explosion.

The distance is so small that it wouldn't change the result by a significant margin. But you're free to use ISL to get a more accurate result.

I genuinely agree, that thing always felt wrong with me.

Maybe just using ISQ on Kris so we get another 9-A calc? It's the same principle as our Joseph Joestar dura calc after all.

So you just don't have a reason to disagree with it? Just "felt wrong"?
I agree that ISQ should be used, but the new calc should still use the full value as a basis. (it likely still will be 8-C due to how close it was to the epicenter)

 

[StrymULTRA]

So you just don't have a reason to disagree with it? Just "felt wrong"?

You did the same with the UT MHS+ downgrade tho :^

I agree that ISQ should be used, but the new calc should still use the full value as a basis. (it likely still will be 8-C due to how close it was to the epicenter)

That's what I said. I'd say to use the body as using the SOUL would lead to REALLY weird implication.

 

[Arceus0x]

I'll ask some calc members for their opinions here

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

You did the same with the UT MHS+ downgrade tho :^

Do you want to get another ban for starting unnecessary beef again? UT's not MHS+, get over it.

That's what I said. I'd say to use the body as using the SOUL would lead to REALLY weird implication.

Nnnnope. Soul has a calc'd height and we use it for all other calcs.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Nnnnope. Soul has a calc'd height and we use it for all other calcs.

This would imply the Battle box is literal tho.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

My real problem with that is that the feat is clarely a gag. You take only 1 point of damage. Do you really think that this shit was meant to be a all powerful attack? Not even the hightiers are capable to reach this level of AP via their own feats that by the way give you way more damage, but somehow a duck exploding in a gag scene is for some reason take more seriouly than any other calc

Incredulity. Nice.

You're under the impression that something being a gag hinders it from being a valid feat. It doesn't, unless you have meaningful contradictions to bring to the table, like a stated speed contradicting a gag-like speed feat for example.

I'll ask some calc members for their opinions here

Would you like me to calc the new version?

 

[Arceus0x]

Would you like me to calc the new version?

I wouldn't mind but first I wanna hear staff opinions on this. As you've pointed out, I am not a physics type of guy. So i'll let physics type of guys look at it. If they agree with your opinion then we can proceed with the re-calc.

 

[KLOL506]

It depends. If the distance between the epicenter and Kris is less than 0.23 meters, assumes it scales to the full yield. If not, well, it is what it is.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

This would imply the Battle box is literal tho.

It's weird, but I don't think it has contradictions. Characters interact with the Battle Box all the time. Kris' SOUL transfers damage to everyone and actually comes from Kris' canonical placement (How it happened with Susie vs Lancer) to the battle box.

If you think it's wrong we could propose a thread to change most calcs to this new standard but for now, let's stick to what we already accept.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

It depends. If the distance between the epicenter and Kris is less than 0.23 meters, assumes it scales to the full yield. If not, well, it is what it is.

KLOL, if the explosion vaporized the machine, would the energy that expanded afterwards be significantly reduced?

 

[Arceus0x]

It depends. If the distance between the epicenter and Kris is less than 0.23 meters, assumes it scales to the full yield. If not, well, it is what it is.

so you agree with topaz that the energy outside the machine would not be wasted on the machine itself and thus make the feat useless?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Incredulity. Nice.

Its common sense. The thing get a result bigger than ANY OTHER FEAT of the verse. Its not just some, ITS ALL OF THEM. This make everything way more inconsistent seeing how the lowtiers have much more tier 9 showcase than tier 8 (Literally no tier 8 showcase)

I could call the feat a outlier tbh

 

[StrymULTRA]

It's weird, but I don't think it has contradictions. Characters interact with the Battle Box all the time. Kris' SOUL transfers damage to everyone and actually comes from Kris' canonical placement (How it happened with Susie vs Lancer) to the battle box.

SOUL is used only for size stuff. Nothing else tbh, so I don't see the point.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Its common sense. The thing get a result bigger than ANY OTHER FEAT of the verse. Its not just some, ITS ALL OF THEM. This make everything way more inconsistent seeing how the lowtiers have much more tier 9 showcase than tier 8 (Literally no tier 8 showcase)

I could call the feat a outlier tbh

It's not enough of a significant margin.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

SOUL is used only for size stuff. Nothing else tbh, so I don't see the point.

The fact the SOUL is used at all means it's currently accepted as having a canonical size. Spamton even comments on the SOUL during their first fight. It is undoubtedly the SOUL that's dodging these attacks.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

SOUL is used only for size stuff

By the way, the distance between the explosion and the SOUL is a "size stuff".

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

It's not enough of a significant margin.

Whats the second highest feat ever calced for the scaling

 

[StrymULTRA]

The fact the SOUL is used at all means it's currently accepted as having a canonical size.

Never said otherwise lol.

Spamton even comments on the SOUL during their first fight. It is undoubtedly the SOUL that's dodging these attacks.

Or just the Darkners being able to see it.

By the way, the distance between the explosion and the SOUL is a "size stuff".

Maybe?

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Whats the second highest feat ever calced for the scaling

It itself is the second highest feat ever calced for the scaling.
Noelle's Snowgrave comes first at 1.08 Tons. (3.2 times stronger than the duck feat)
After that we have Berdly's durability feat at 0.075 Tons. (a 4x gap between this and the duck feat. It's important to point out that Berdly's durability scales eons above that feat as he tanked it completely)

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Never said otherwise lol.

Or just the Darkners being able to see it.

We're getting into speculative territory, we have no reason to believe the SOUL in the battle box is actually Kris' body.

Maybe?

It is, we're just calculating the size of a distance instead of the size of an explosion or a character. It's just calculating space.

 

[StrymULTRA]

We're getting into speculative territory, we have no reason to believe the SOUL in the battle box is actually Kris' body.

Like we don't have a reason to believe it is, especially when we clearly see Kris' SOUL not separating when attacked in outside the fights. Plus cutscenes like when they're captured in the Card Kingdom proves that the battles in-verse aren't literally like in gameplay.

It is, we're just calculating the size of a distance instead of the size of an explosion or a character. It's just calculating space.

I'd rather do that if I'm not busy with other stuff atm.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Noelle's Snowgrave comes first at 1.08 Tons

Something that doesnt scale to normal stats

After that we have Berdly's durability feat at 0.075 Tons

So someone massively above the duck feat is actually weaker than it by four times via sheer feats

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Like we don't have a reason to believe it is, especially when we clearly see Kris' SOUL not separating when attacked in outside the fights. Plus cutscenes like when they're captured in the Card Kingdom proves that the battles in-verse aren't literally like in gameplay.

Notice how this is only when they're not ready for battle.
You can target one's body or one's SOUL, both can be true.

I'd rather do that if I'm not busy with other stuff atm.

I said I'd do it, you don't have to worry.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

So someone massively above the duck feat is actually weaker than it by four times via sheer feats

Great job ignoring the actual argument AND scaling to act like a bratty child.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Great job ignoring the actual argument AND scaling to act like a bratty child.

No, im not ignoring it. You just showed a 9-A explosion affecting a character that, via our currently scaling, would massively upscale above a 8-C explosion. If that's the BEST feat outside the duck feat, then yes, I would prefer to get ride of that duck completly

We are literally putting a gag feat over all other feats of the series. That's ridiculous

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

No, im not ignoring it. You just showed a 9-A explosion affecting a character that, via our currently scaling, would massively upscale above a 8-C explosion.

Let's count how many times you were straight up incorrect in that statement:

"Massively upscale above a 8-C explosion"

The gap between Berdly and the weakest enemy is unknown.

"9-A affected the character"

It didn't affect the character. It didn't even scratch Berdly. He tanked it.

"9-A explosion"

The 9-A value is reached by calculating how much energy it would take to vaporize the cart, it is not necessarily the true energy of the explosion.
Instead, it's "at the bare minimum, 9-A". The explosion itself could very well be higher but since it has no more material to destroy in it's path, it's not calculable. It's possible that the entire volume of the explosion would be capable of vaporizing the same material just as easily. We don't know.

This is the case for every single other 9-A feat as well. Everytime you rely on size or PSI for things, you are taking the lowest end possible.

A 4-time gap for a casual feat is NOT enough to claim outlier and you will cease this immediately.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Let's count how many times you were straight up incorrect in that statement:

The gap between Berdly and the weakest enemy is unknown.

He still scales way above the duck. EVERYONE scales above the duck. Shit gives you 1 point of damage. Its ridiculous. A random enemy would already be massively stronger than that shit

It didn't affect the character

How can you know? For me it's seems that he was damaged, yes.

The 9-A value is reached by calculating how much energy it would take to vaporize the cart, it is not necessarily the true energy of the explosion.

We don't know

You just explained why your logic doesnt work. We don't know. We can't use it to say that the explosion scales massively above the result because we don't know what would happen

I honestly doubt that the explosion would pulverize everything in it's path. That's a lot of guess, since well, the "pulverization" it's basically just the cart exploding

A 4-time gap for a casual feat is NOT enough to claim outlier and you will cease this immediately.

Man, if that's the best feat in the series other than the gag duck, so yeah, I wouldnt take this as legit since all other feats can't pass the Tier 9 domain

 

[Recon1511]

I don't see how it being a "gag" disqualifies the feat here really...

 

[Recon1511]

Eh, if they were like 9-C or 9-B maybe. But they are 9-A and there are other 8-C feats

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

There's only one other 8-C feat, and its via thermal energy, aka not usable for scaling

 

[StrymULTRA]

There's only one other 8-C feat, and its via thermal energy, aka not usable for scaling

That's not even why it's not usable for scaling lmfao, did you even play the game?