2C Mori is reeeeaaaaal CRT

[DavidTPPM]

I diverge from your viewpoint. My focus lies not on the location but on the linguistic construction of the statement, which lacks any correlation to attack potency.

I don't care what your focus lies on, the comparison you made is not applicable to this case at all. Ruling a country means ruling the people in the country through social influence. Ruling all of creation in this case is, as I explained, COMPLETELY different. Mori isn't restricted to ruling the beings within the universe but all of creation itself. I won't repeat it what I already said, I already explained why the statements are completely different.

I am uncertain about the origin of the Buddha reference in your argument.

Additionally, I find it insufficient to interpret the statement without substantial evidence to support such an assertion.

Mori as stated to become a "Buddha who restores balance to the universe"

There more than enough substantial evidence, such as Mori having power that can control all of creation, Mori being an all-powerful spirit, and as I explained in my previous reply, Mori ruling all of creation. The karma statements and the main statement used for the current L2-C qualifications already imply he can significantly affect all of creation while him being called "all-powerful" implies he can outright do whatever he wants with them, in other words, destroy and recreate them. And given that the context behind the "all-powerful" statement is him becoming a "true god free from the laws of nature" it should not be just a figure of speech.

The requirements for 2-C are

2-C: Low Multiverse level​

Characters or objects that can significantly affect, create and/or destroy small multiverses which can be comprised of several separate space-time continuums ranging anywhere from two to a thousand, or equivalents.

Mori controlling and ruling all of creation through his powers as an all-powerful spirit should be way more than enough to be considered "significantly affecting".

 

[ImmortalDread]

I don't care what your focus lies on, the comparison you made is not applicable to this case at all. Ruling a country means ruling the people in the country through social influence. Ruling all of creation in this case is, as I explained, COMPLETELY different. Mori isn't restricted to ruling the beings within the universe but all of creation itself. I won't repeat it what I already said, I already explained why the statements are completely different.

Sure you don't care because it defeats your argument but is going to support mines.

Replace it with "universe" or "all of creation" and my argument won't change. As I said, i used "country" as example here.

I don't think they are different at all except "locations".

Mori as stated to become a "Buddha who restores balance to the universe"

Alright? Not sure how this relates to attack potency.

There more than enough substantial evidence, such as Mori having power that can control all of creation, Mori being an all-powerful spirit, and as I explained in my previous reply, Mori ruling all of creation.

All this don't support the reasoning of the relation to attack potency. This is like repeating the original statement as twice.

You can be strongest warrior that can control all of creation and still not required to have universal attack potency.

The karma statements and the main statement used for the current L2-C qualifications already imply he can significantly affect all of creation while him being called "all-powerful" implies he can outright do whatever he wants with them, in other words, destroy and recreate them. And given that the context behind the "all-powerful" statement is him becoming a "true god free from the laws of nature" it should not be just a figure of speech.

I don't consider this as figure of speech but also I would consider it as irrelevant to attack potency discussion.

So overall, everything you presented is only his status and no further evidence for this to be related to attack potency.

 

[SeijiSetto]

snip

dread literally all the evidence provided points directly towards mori being able to significantly affect "all universes" and "all of creation".
to quote the tiering system page (again):

2-C: Low Multiverse level
Characters or objects that can significantly affect, create and/or destroy small multiverses which can be comprised of several separate space-time continuums ranging anywhere from two to a thousand, or equivalents.

it's literally there in colored bold italicized underlined writing. having "power over all creation" and multiple statements of being "all powerful" as well as "ruling over all universes" (which shouldn't be referring to influence because that makes zero sense in context) is almost certainly enough to qualify for "significantly affecting".

your entire argument hinges on effectively saying "um no, 'rule' is referring to governing over like a king does to the people in his country" (see below)

Just because one can govern an entire nation does not imply possession of a country-level attack potency (or universal, in this case).

which, in this scenario, is just flat-out wrong.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Replace it with "universe" or "all of creation" and my argument won't change. As I said, i used "country" as example here.

I don't think they are different at all except "locations".

I already explained twice how they're completely different. You didn't respond to my argument a single time. At this point I take as a concession, I won't repeat myself a 3rd time.

Alright? Not sure how this relates to attack potency.

I was giving you the origin of the Buddha statement which you said you were unsure about.

All this don't support the reasoning of the relation to attack potency. This is like repeating the original statement as twice.

I explained how it relates to AP and you still didn't counter the arguments. Not going to repeat myself again.

You can be strongest warrior that can control all of creation and still not required to have universal attack potency.

"Characters or objects that can significantly affect, create and/or destroy small multiverses which can be comprised of several separate space-time continuums ranging anywhere from two to a thousand, or equivalents."

I don't consider this as figure of speech but also I would consider it as irrelevant to attack potency discussion.

Ah yes complete/unlimited power is completely unrelated to AP.

I basically answered all of this in my previous reply. No need to spam the thread by repeating things over and over again.

 

[ImmortalDread]

First, using MTL translations is the worst method to introduce the translations. So unless you bring a reliable human-translations, I will skip it.

your entire argument hinges on effectively saying "um no, 'rule' is referring to governing over like a king does to the people in his country" (see below)

which, in this scenario, is just flat-out wrong.

Glad you did not explain why the interpretation is objectively false. So not sure what to reply here exactly.

it's literally there in colored bold italicized underlined writing. having "power over all creation" and multiple statements of being "all powerful" as well as "ruling over all universes" (which shouldn't be referring to influence because that makes zero sense in context) is almost certainly enough to qualify for "significantly affecting".

Thanks for showing the 2-C description. I differ that there is any significance of effecting the entire cosmology with this type of statements as I have a different interpretation of it.

 

[SeijiSetto]

First, using MTL translations is the worst method to introduce the translations. So unless you bring a reliable human-translations, I will skip it.

so you're gonna ignore the human-translated, native korean-verified ones in the OP?
aight.
you aren't arguing in good faith so i personally will just ignore anything you have to say from this point onwards.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I already explained twice how they're completely different. You didn't respond to my argument a single time. At this point I take as a concession, I won't repeat myself a 3rd time.

You did not counter my original reason at all. You did not even explain why its false equalivance except explaining why "location" takes a different contextual meaning. I don't think it is different.

I was giving you the origin of the Buddha statement which you said you were unsure about.

I am aware, I still don't see the relation here.

I explained how it relates to AP and you still didn't counter the arguments. Not going to repeat myself again.

And your explanation lacks the reasoning of how it is related to AP.

"Characters or objects that can significantly affect, create and/or destroy small multiverses which can be comprised of several separate space-time continuums ranging anywhere from two to a thousand, or equivalents."

Thanks for 3rd time copy and paste.

Ah yes complete/unlimited power is completely unrelated to AP.

Where is unlimited power coming from?

I basically answered all of this in my previous reply. No need to spam the thread by repeating things over and over again.

Me too.

 

[ImmortalDread]

so you're gonna ignore the human-translated, native korean-verified ones in the OP?
aight.

Setto. You are confusing me.

So, you are using this MTL translation to counter something, then once I pointed out, you change your entire argument to one in OP? (Which my original premise of disagreement literally rely on this "human-translation")

Seriously, what is this? Are you now using MTL or the human one.

you aren't arguing in good faith so i personally will just ignore anything you have to say from this point onwards.

Don't assume my faith here. The fact, you switched your argument to OP's one once I pointed out that you are using MTL translations make it questionable.

 

[Yeolban]

Seriously, what is this? Are you now using MTL or the human one.

My translations are mine. I didn't MTL them, I translated them myself. So they're man-made. My translation was later confirmed by a native korean.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I am aware, and my entire disagreement lies on this human translation in your OP, but Setto apparently used MTL-translation to support the statement of “power of all creations”.

I don't need even to look at your confirmation, I trust you enough that you create your work properly.

Anyway; I think, there are many of other shreds of evidence. I will try to compile them in one post, and let me know if I missed anything.

 

[Yeolban]

If you want the translation for that 1 scan that was translated with ChatGPT provided by David, I'll translate it for you.

It says "An existence that is able to carry all of creation..."

Now, due to differences in language, I am unable to properly translate word for word, but the word I translated as "carry" is synonymous with "handle", "administrate".

And yes, the "all of creation" is the same buddhist term that means 'everything' in a literal sense.

So yes, while ChatGPT used more pompous words, it's not far from an accurate translation when it comes to meaning.

Isn't it an already accepted scan already, though? I could swear it was used in a Mori CRT before.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Based on the explanation in the profile, it does suggest this would qualify for the "significantly affect" portion of our tiering system.

Since Mori is the one regulating and balancing the existence of these realms (confirmed here that he affects all of them), this feat should indeed be 2-C.

Edit: I will add tho, the "maintaining" part of the profile explanation is very important to substantiate, as the scans only mention him "balancing" the realms and not what that entails specifically, which should be added to properly maintain the rating. I trust you guys have this information and would require a small tweak to the justification.

 

[ImmortalDread]

At least Universe level+ (Attained a state of being that could maintain and balance the universe, which contains multiple time-spaces like the Divine Realm and the Sage Realm. Is capable of observing past, present, and future from a place where time and space overlap as well as governing all of creation throughout all of the universes as an all-powerful spirit in Nirvana)

Since I am being accused of “bad faith”, I will try to clarify my stance here: (at least, now I have access to my PC)

Alright, we all agree that there are no feats, but rather a collective of statements to support the universal level (at least; being argued for one). I will comment on each one:

First link

1. He reached Nirvana (enlightenment in short), let's say – (since this is referenced to Buddhism context), he is freed of all worldly attachments and desires (as the next phrase suggested at least with “Ties being cut”)
2. He is being left with two choices:
   1. They can either return to the universe as a spiritual and all-powerful being, implying a sense of responsibility to maintain balance and harmony in the universe,
   2. or they can choose to stay beyond Nirvana and become a Buddha.
3. I will skip "Becoming a Buddha" because the way I understand, he picked the first option. But mostly, I think it is a fully enlightened being who has attained perfect wisdom and compassion. Buddhas are revered figures who guide others towards enlightenment.

The way I interpret it here, since he selected the first option, he is now responsible to maintain balance and harmony in the universe. I understand that the argument that this should relate to “AP” because he is all-powerful spiritual, but this is not the reason, this is the cause. It doesn't necessarily specify the nature of their power, but rather more abstract spiritual, suggesting a high level of enlightenment, wisdom, and possibly supernatural abilities.

Since this Buddhist reference – being a "spirit and all-powerful being" would likely refer to spiritual strength, wisdom, and the ability to guide and influence others positively. The emphasis is often on inner strength, compassion, and understanding rather than physical or aggressive power.

So, in this context, Mori's power is more aligned with their spiritual enlightenment and ability to maintain balance and harmony in the universe rather than physical strength or attack potency.

Second Link
I won't deceive you; I genuinely fail to comprehend the connection between this and attack potency or physical strength. I can't find any explanation that even remotely suggests their correlation.

Third link (the new translated one)

Here is the place where those who reach Nirvana rule over all universes and all of creation.

and other one (which I highly think they both are too interconnected and convey one message)

An existence that is able to carry/control/adminstrate all of creation..

Like the way I understand this, or at least I interpret it, implies a sense of universal governance and control, where those who reach Nirvana has the ability to rule over all universes and creation. It proposes a supreme and all-encompassing authority over the cosmos.

While the language used indicates a high degree of power, it doesn't necessarily imply physical strength or attack potency in the conventional sense. Instead, it aligns more with the idea of spiritual or cosmic power, where the individual possesses a profound understanding of the universe, its workings, and the interconnectedness of all things. This power is rooted in wisdom, enlightenment, and spiritual insight rather than brute physical force.

And since this is most likely a Buddhist related concept – the concept of universal rule and control often signifies a deep spiritual awareness and a harmonious connection with the cosmos, emphasizing qualities such as compassion, enlightenment, and the ability to guide others on the path to enlightenment. It's a form of power that transcends physicality and materiality, focusing on the spiritual and metaphysical aspects of existence.

---

You said I made a false equivalence. I am going to elaborate why it is not. A false equivalence occurs when two different things are inaccurately compared as if they are equivalent, leading to a flawed conclusion. In my argument, I am making a valid distinction between governance and attack potency, highlighting that the ability to govern a nation, or in the given context, rule over universes, does not imply possessing physical or destructive power at a corresponding level (such as country-level or universal attack potency).

My comparison draws a clear distinction between two separate concepts: the ability to govern and the ability to exert physical force. Governance involves leadership, administration, and decision-making skills, whereas attack potency relates to the capacity to cause physical harm or destruction (or creation). My argument correctly points out that these are distinct attributes, and one does not automatically imply the other. Therefore, it does not constitute a false equivalence.

My conclusion​

The third link (consisting of two statements) and the first link both convey a sense of governance rather than a direct attack potency, aligning well with the Buddhist context.

I don't mind (specifically in response to Setto) being outvoted here. This is a thread where people share their opinions. Even though my opinion doesn't hold much weight in the outcome of the thread, it doesn't give you the right to belittle my stance, even if it's technically correct. The way you're implying that my input is insignificant suggests I should agree with FRA even if I'm not convinced with the thread.

This mindset is exhausting. I've encountered the same attitude from Georr, Shion, and Strym when I respectfully disagreed with their threads. I have the right to dissent. If the thread is only meant for unanimous agreement, there's no real discussion happening. The purpose of the thread would be rendered meaningless. This principle isn't accepted; we're altering the reasoning, which significantly affects the justification and rating. This is still very much up for debate.

 

[KLOL506]

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 @Sir_Ovens @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @Maverick_Zero_X @Just_a_Random_Butler @LordGriffin1000 Would you be able to evaluate this when you have the time?

 

[azontr]

Since I am being accused of “bad faith”, I will try to clarify my stance here: (at least, now I have access to my PC)

Alright, we all agree that there are no feats, but rather a collective of statements to support the universal level (at least; being argued for one). I will comment on each one:

First link

1. He reached Nirvana (enlightenment in short), let's say – (since this is referenced to Buddhism context), he is freed of all worldly attachments and desires (as the next phrase suggested at least with “Ties being cut”)
2. He is being left with two choices:
   1. They can either return to the universe as a spiritual and all-powerful being, implying a sense of responsibility to maintain balance and harmony in the universe,
   2. or they can choose to stay beyond Nirvana and become a Buddha.
3. I will skip "Becoming a Buddha" because the way I understand, he picked the first option. But mostly, I think it is a fully enlightened being who has attained perfect wisdom and compassion. Buddhas are revered figures who guide others towards enlightenment.

The way I interpret it here, since he selected the first option, he is now responsible to maintain balance and harmony in the universe. I understand that the argument that this should relate to “AP” because he is all-powerful spiritual, but this is not the reason, this is the cause. It doesn't necessarily specify the nature of their power, but rather more abstract spiritual, suggesting a high level of enlightenment, wisdom, and possibly supernatural abilities.

Since this Buddhist reference – being a "spirit and all-powerful being" would likely refer to spiritual strength, wisdom, and the ability to guide and influence others positively. The emphasis is often on inner strength, compassion, and understanding rather than physical or aggressive power.

So, in this context, Mori's power is more aligned with their spiritual enlightenment and ability to maintain balance and harmony in the universe rather than physical strength or attack potency.

Second Link
I won't deceive you; I genuinely fail to comprehend the connection between this and attack potency or physical strength. I can't find any explanation that even remotely suggests their correlation.

Third link (the new translated one)

and other one (which I highly think they both are too interconnected and convey one message)

Like the way I understand this, or at least I interpret it, implies a sense of universal governance and control, where those who reach Nirvana has the ability to rule over all universes and creation. It proposes a supreme and all-encompassing authority over the cosmos.

While the language used indicates a high degree of power, it doesn't necessarily imply physical strength or attack potency in the conventional sense. Instead, it aligns more with the idea of spiritual or cosmic power, where the individual possesses a profound understanding of the universe, its workings, and the interconnectedness of all things. This power is rooted in wisdom, enlightenment, and spiritual insight rather than brute physical force.

And since this is most likely a Buddhist related concept – the concept of universal rule and control often signifies a deep spiritual awareness and a harmonious connection with the cosmos, emphasizing qualities such as compassion, enlightenment, and the ability to guide others on the path to enlightenment. It's a form of power that transcends physicality and materiality, focusing on the spiritual and metaphysical aspects of existence.

---

You said I made a false equivalence. I am going to elaborate why it is not. A false equivalence occurs when two different things are inaccurately compared as if they are equivalent, leading to a flawed conclusion. In my argument, I am making a valid distinction between governance and attack potency, highlighting that the ability to govern a nation, or in the given context, rule over universes, does not imply possessing physical or destructive power at a corresponding level (such as country-level or universal attack potency).

My comparison draws a clear distinction between two separate concepts: the ability to govern and the ability to exert physical force. Governance involves leadership, administration, and decision-making skills, whereas attack potency relates to the capacity to cause physical harm or destruction (or creation). My argument correctly points out that these are distinct attributes, and one does not automatically imply the other. Therefore, it does not constitute a false equivalence.

My conclusion​

The third link (consisting of two statements) and the first link both convey a sense of governance rather than a direct attack potency, aligning well with the Buddhist context.

I don't mind (specifically in response to Setto) being outvoted here. This is a thread where people share their opinions. Even though my opinion doesn't hold much weight in the outcome of the thread, it doesn't give you the right to belittle my stance, even if it's technically correct. The way you're implying that my input is insignificant suggests I should agree with FRA even if I'm not convinced with the thread.

This mindset is exhausting. I've encountered the same attitude from Georr, Shion, and Strym when I respectfully disagreed with their threads. I have the right to dissent. If the thread is only meant for unanimous agreement, there's no real discussion happening. The purpose of the thread would be rendered meaningless. This principle isn't accepted; we're altering the reasoning, which significantly affects the justification and rating. This is still very much up for debate.

Not reading allat.

 

[Planck69]

OP looks good. Dread's posts give me a near headache.

If there's any issues with the proposal can someone paraphrase them?

If not then I agree.

 

[SeijiSetto]

OP looks good. Dread's posts give me a near headache.

bro literally said "not readin allat, my head hurts" lmfao

If there's any issues with the proposal can someone paraphrase them?

in my valiant attempt to parse dread's posts i THINK her issue is pretty much "it wouldn't correlate to AP" (despite the whole "significantly affects" clause in the exact wording for the tier)

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

OP looks good. Dread's posts give me a near headache.

If there's any issues with the proposal can someone paraphrase them?

If not then I agree.

From what I can see, they only really need to elaborate what balancing the realms entails on the profile justification. That's it, really.

 

[Planck69]

I mean, if the fundamental logic currently used isn't changed but merely the number of universes then I dunno why it'd be relevant in this thread.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I mean, if the fundamental logic currently used isn't changed but merely the number of universes then I dunno why it'd be relevant in this thread.

While true, I prefer to avoid spamming threads for something which frankly is very minor.

 

[Maitreya12]

I think the crucial context missing from all this discussion is that the god of highschool is directly based on The Journey to The West.

In that story, it makes it very clear that “becoming a Buddha” is reaching a divine level of power and state of being that transcends all metaphysical and foundational concepts like yin and Yang. It’s why Sun Wukong’s original profile is so OP. So taking that into consideration, I think we can determine that’s the kind of meaning behind when Mori “becomes the Buddha” because he essentially does and is described exactly as I said, in that he’s portrayed as a totally transcendent being in the plane of Nirvana.

He even “becomes one with the world” and all its concepts to further support this idea that Mori becoming the Buddha is more akin to the journey to the west version of what “becoming a Buddha is” more than anything else.

https://imgur.io/a/LVJfINm

(PS, this scan can also be used to support OP’s point although the raws should be double checked since there were some things left untranslated in the English webtoon version).

 

[Planck69]

Huh. Well, between that scan and the other posts, I think Low Multiverse level is fine with me.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

There we go. Add that scan to the profile and that's GG. Fully 2-C.

 

[Megaraptor149]

Actually if Dread concern about ruling statement, the fact Low 2-C upgrade before shouldnt be accepted at first.

Anyway, need one staff more to accept this CRT.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The OP looks fine from a glance.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Actually if Dread concern about ruling statement, the fact Low 2-C upgrade before shouldnt be accepted at first.

I am not omnipresent and the world is not only around about me, so it can be accepted without me or opposition.

Not sure how it should change anything anyway.

 

[Megaraptor149]

I am not omnipresent and the world is not only around about me, so it can be accepted without me or opposition.

Not sure how it should change anything anyway.

I am not talking you Omnipresent, but if talking about your active this forum it's sure.

17k message

 

[Fixxed]

I translated that my self, google give me "entire universe" and deepL give me "all universes". But if native korean say "all universes" is more correct then fine

I agree with this

 

[ImmortalDread]

Yes, those are range statements, although I am not sure if possessing spiritual strength or wisdom over the entire creation would grant any ability.

Referring to the last relevant post, Mait included the Buddhist reference (becoming Buddhist) as it would hold any weight here (he chose the first option in that panel and, as it is suggested in his justification, I am unsure why you are even trying to elaborate on the second option as it wouldn't matter here).

I precisely explained what those terms mean in the Buddhist context and cannot find any reasoning for their connection to attack potency or physical strength.

Interestingly, someone mentioned here having a statement about unlimited/infinite power, but I cannot find it in the profile.

 

[NatzuX]

It looks like this thread has been accepted by all 3 staff members.

 

[Megaraptor149]

It looks like this thread has been accepted by all 3 staff members.

3 staff approvals, it can be applied then in his profile. If anyone is willing to change it.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Interestingly, someone mentioned here having a statement about unlimited/infinite power, but I cannot find it in the profile.

That's just the definition of "all-powerful". Unlimited or complete power. I just mentioned it because you yourself said it's not a figure of speech.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I would not define it like this in this particular context but alright.

 

[Megaraptor149]

already appliedd profile change then

 

[Yeolban]

already appliedd profile change then

Just got home, thank you for applying them for me

This thread can be closed now, no?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

somone forgot to add the scan about becoming one with the world smh

I suppose since it's a small change, can be added later. Since the main purpose of the thread got accepted and applied, closing