2 black hats walk into a bar.

[Greatsage13th]

Black Hat

Black Hat may refer to: The character from Villainous The character from xkcd

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Bill Cipher

Bill Cipher is a triangular dream demon who exists in the Mind/Dreamscape and the true antagonist of Gravity Falls, secretly being responsible for many of the most important events of and leading up to the show. Years ago, Bill made contact with Stanford "Ford" Pines, posing as a muse who...

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Both are low 2-C

Battle takes place in a Scottish bar

Speed is equalized

Both have prior knowledge

 

[Greatsage13th]

Bump

 

[Brogeefrong]

do u allow bill's plot manip to be combat applicable here, other wises i think bill is done

 

[Greatsage13th]

do u allow bill's plot manip to be combat applicable here, other wises i think bill is done

elaborate

 

[Brogeefrong]

elaborate

well if mr hat just plans out the plot, whats bill gonna do if he dont have

 

[Greatsage13th]

well if mr hat just plans out the plot, whats bill gonna do if he dont have

He doesn't start off with that.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Bump

 

[ShionAH]

What stops bill from snapping?

 

[Greatsage13th]

What stops bill from snapping?

That's just transmutation isn't it?

 

[ShionAH]

That's just transmutation isn't it?

Transmutation and Mind Manipulation

 

[Greatsage13th]

Transmutation and Mind Manipulation

transmutation he could simply shapeshift out of and he has dealt with mind manipulation in the form of emphatic manipulation before.

What can bill do against Social Influencing and Aura (Fear inducing and overwhelming)?

 

[ShionAH]

transmutation he could simply shapeshift out of and he has dealt with mind manipulation in the form of emphatic manipulation before.

Bills transmutation stops counciousness (I dont know how to type)

Mind Hax > Empathic Hax

What can bill do against Social Influencing and Aura (Fear inducing and overwhelming)?

I mean they do not give BH the insta win tbh, it will just make Bill kinda overwhelmed

 

[Greatsage13th]

I mean they do not give BH the insta win tbh, it will just make Bill kinda overwhelmed

Giving a gap for Black hat to use his subjective reality and multiversal time stop to incap bill due to prior knowledge.

 

[ShionAH]

Giving a gap for Black hat to use his subjective reality and multiversal time stop to incap bill due to prior knowledge.

Tbh those two does not seem really that useful in a 1v1 battle, I feel like a snap is a bit more simple

 

[Greatsage13th]

Tbh those two does not seem really that useful in a 1v1 battle, I feel like a snap is a bit more simple

Except social influencing and aura forces him to tank the overwhelming, fear inducing effect that freezes him up temporarily for black hat to simply to do the aforementioned 2 or erase him across history like how he did to Aku (which he would due to finding out 2 old men and 2 kids handed his metaphorical *** over to him)

 

[ShionAH]

Except social influencing and aura forces him to tank the overwhelming, fear inducing effect that freezes him up temporarily for black hat to simply to do the aforementioned 2 or erase him across history like how he did to Aku (which he would due to finding out 2 old men and 2 kids handed his metaphorical *** over to him)

Can I see when his “Aura” simply makes it so his opponent cannot attack? All I know he kinda intimidates them but thats it. Bill only has to snap his fingers and with Prior Knowledge he WILL know he can win

 

[Greatsage13th]

Can I see when his “Aura” simply makes it so his opponent cannot attack? All I know he kinda intimidates them but thats it. Bill only has to snap his fingers and with Prior Knowledge he WILL know he can win

His aura involves causing all of evil in the universe to concentrate at his location causing others to feel extremely overwhelmed. By making his presence known; he sends them through shock, fear and intimidation and he has done this to that aren't Flug, Demencia or 5.0.5. are pops, hunson abadeer, HIM, Cosma and according to Flug all heroes fear him at just the sound of his name (his alias not the real name that causes people to die). Also mind has isn't superior to emphatic hax, Just like how time manipulation isn't superior to time stop. Bill's mind has also isn't layered while Black Hat upscales from Demencia's resistance to emphatic hax by causing the source of it to decay and die.

 

[ShionAH]

His aura involves causing all of evil in the universe to concentrate at his location causing others to feel extremely overwhelmed. By making his presence known; he sends them through shock, fear and intimidation and he has done this to that aren't Flug, Demencia or 5.0.5. are pops, hunson abadeer, HIM, Cosma and according to Flug all heroes fear him at just the sound of his name (his alias not the real name that causes people to die). Also mind has isn't superior to emphatic hax, Just like how time manipulation isn't superior to time stop. Bill's mind has also isn't layered while Black Hat upscales from Demencia's resistance to emphatic hax by causing the source of it to decay and die.

Mind Hax IS > Empathic hax. I feel like this is moreso about Black Hats identity being known and scaring people, Bill will know he is more powerful so why would he be scared? If you had a crazy murderer infront of you but you had a gun would you be scared to pull the trigger?

Empathic hax is literally a subset. Resisting Time Stop does not mean you resist Time Manipulation. This was discussed several times

 

[Greatsage13th]

Just wait. I'll ask for a third opinion on this.

 

[Greatsage13th]

[IMG alt="ImmortalDread"]https://vsbattles.com/data/avatars/s/21/21770.jpg?1699005731[/IMG]
ImmortalDread
"By default, I suppose, but this depends on the mechanics and potency of both abilities. Personally, I would assert that they are fundamentally associated in the same way. However, the former tends to have its own distinct methods, specifically in manipulating particular emotions.

It can be argued that the former can gauge the same potency and outcome as the latter when directed in that manner."

Dread says this.

 

[ShionAH]

[IMG alt="ImmortalDread"]https://vsbattles.com/data/avatars/s/21/21770.jpg?1699005731[/IMG]
ImmortalDread
"By default, I suppose, but this depends on the mechanics and potency of both abilities. Personally, I would assert that they are fundamentally associated in the same way. However, the former tends to have its own distinct methods, specifically in manipulating particular emotions.

It can be argued that the former can gauge the same potency and outcome as the latter when directed in that manner."

Dread says this.

The problem is Black Hat is resistant to his emotions changing, Bill simply shuts minds off when he snaps

 

[Greatsage13th]

The problem is Black Hat is resistant to his emotions changing, Bill simply shuts minds off when he snaps

Send the scan.

 

[ShionAH]

Send the scan.

Its on the profile..

Paralyzed the minds of all the zodiac symbols before turning them into banners.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Its on the profile..

Paralyzed the minds of all the zodiac symbols before turning them into banners.

You said shut off minds. That's just paralysis, telekinesis and a second snap to transmute them.

 

[ShionAH]

You said shut off minds.

Paralysing someones mind is shutting it off

 

[Greatsage13th]

Paralysing someones mind is shutting it off

Yes. But that's not the scan that shows it.

 

[ShionAH]

Yes. But that's not the scan that shows it.

He paralyses their minds with a snap, makes them float with TK and then turns them into banners with a hand move

 

[Greatsage13th]

He paralyses their minds with a snap

That's just borderline paralysis inducement.

 

[ShionAH]

That's just borderline paralysis inducement.

Paralysis on mind yea