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[2-0-0] English guy faces...a dumb adolescent? – John Constantine vs Protagonist-Kun

Reasoning for stomp in case of battle:
Constantine has every single ability in his profile available to him except this single one
Reality Warping (By lighting the Wishing Matches,[107] John can make a wish, as shown when he took away the power of[108] God Swamp Thing if he so chooses)


Reasoning for talking out of battle and gg:
John Constantine usually solves his complications via talking his way outta them, and is used to going out fine while messing with higher entities capable of stuff like Plot Manip and etc.
For the record, too:
Social Influencing (Sold his soul to the devil only to threaten The Presence into cancelling that deal, convincing it that he would be able to take over Hell, then wage and win war against Heaven.[17] Tricked the First of the Fallen into drinking holy water to save the soul of a friend.[18] By pretending to be eager to sell his soul,[19] conned a demon into thinking the market on souls was about to crash so that in his rage he would get rid of his underlings, who were about to kill him. Has terrified people[1] into giving him information on various occasions.[20] Scared off more than a hundred magicians,[21] all more powerful than him, by using his reputation and possibly some unknown form of magic. Can sneak subliminal, hypnotic messaging in his speech.[22] Routinely makes large sums of money in poker.[23] Walked into a police investigation and convinced them into following his orders just through his attitude.[24] After reading their memories, can make people go from threatening him to crying on the floor in a few sentences.[25] Can cause mundane objects to become magical just by convincing others that they are[26])

With the addition of a tremendous outsmart.

Gifted, though lacks common sense
Intelligence: At least Genius. John is very knowledgeable in occult matters,[79] and is expert in various kinds of magic, such as clairvoyance, summoning voodoo, necromancy and many others, and can even combine them in spells of his own creation.[83] As better detailed in his Social Influencing and Preparation sections in his Powers & Abilities, John is an incredibly clever talker and planner, with his sheer ability to convince people bordering on the supernatural and his wit in coming up with ploys being second to no one, not to mention a skilled detective, as shown when he tracked down a criminal that had evaded the police for his whole life in seemingly less than a day.[12]

So everything implies that it is very likely for the battle to look like Obi-Wan Kenobi vs. Traffic Stormtrooper, though through sheer talking.
 
John should be nowhere near the "strongest" list, as shown even on his profile he's lost fights to unarmed 10-B pretty routinely and basically all of his impressive victories come from exploiting character flaws, pulling at the right threads and generally knowing how to put himself in the right place at the right time, not things viable for combat (even his prep mainly relies on the aforementioned stuff over Batman-style "i just have this really strong tool i can whip out whenever"). Just how defenseless he is in a scrap varies (sometimes he's been able to use magic in self-defense and there's an argument for 10-A or even 9-C) but all things considered running up to him and beating him up is typically the least danger you'll ever be in if you're anywhere near Constantine (I don't mean "if you're fighting him", I'm pretty sure just being his friend canonically has higher odds of getting you killed).

Also he's a smurf even without the matches, I think Synchronicity is like 1-B or something
Reasoning for talking out of battle and gg:
John Constantine usually solves his complications via talking his way outta them, and is used to going out fine while messing with higher entities capable of stuff like Plot Manip and etc.

So everything implies that it is very likely for the battle to look like Obi-Wan Kenobi vs. Traffic Stormtrooper, though through sheer talking.
This is a reductive way to look at "Social Influencing" as a skill, like it's a universally applicable superpower that you can just throw at any opponent with invariable levels of success. The concept that convincing a more powerful entity is somehow more difficult is wrong (sure they exist on a higher level of intellect but they're written to be human-like in reasoning) and people like Nergal or the First of the Fallen had flaws such as pride, arrogance and wrathfulness that he was capable of exploiting just as easily as he would if they'd been normal humans, and indeed ordinary people have on occasion defeated or outsmarted him just because he didn't see it coming, made the wrong move or even just because there wasn't really any feasible way to manipulate them. He didn't just say words good and make them change their minds, he set things up so they wouldn't really have a choice (I.E: Selling his soul to the three lords of Hell so that if any of them were to actually claim it they'd be honor-bound to go to war, which none of them wanted). He can't just go "HEY DON'T FIGHT ME DON'T FIGHT ME" and have it be much more effective than if a normal person said it.

Ultimately John is amazing at bluffing, at figuring out what type of person you are and capitalizing on that, at knowing how his reputation is going to affect people and a hundred different things, but you still have to choose to engage in conversation with him rather than just sock him in the face, it's not magic. I mean it literally might be but shush.

John's one actually useful tool in direct combat is Synchronicity, but even that sort of just subtly pokes things along to make it so they'll go right for John. In a straight fight I'm not sure it could just help things along (again, he's been knocked out by regular people). It might counter his Plot Manipulation though.

I don't have an opinion on the match, the other guy's profile isn't great and I don't know his wincons, but I thought I should correct some of the claims here.
 
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Synchronicity is not given a tier, only Wishing Matches do, so let's leave it as is

I'm putting him in this situation simply due to his social skills, as with direct fight he's no good, yeah.
Thank you for the clarifications.

Also, the wincon for the other guy are basically his plot manip who apparently is passively making him "better than the opponent at anything", tho i don't think it'll be stopping Constantine's, which basically I think are avoiding fight whatsoever and gg
 
This is a reductive way to look at "Social Influencing" as a skill, like it's a universally applicable superpower that you can just throw at any opponent with invariable levels of success. The concept that convincing a more powerful entity is somehow more difficult is wrong (sure they exist on a higher level of intellect but they're written to be human-like in reasoning) and people like Nergal or the First of the Fallen had flaws such as pride, arrogance and wrathfulness that he was capable of exploiting just as easily as he would if they'd been normal humans, and indeed ordinary people have on occasion defeated or outsmarted him just because he didn't see it coming, made the wrong move or even just because there wasn't really any feasible way to manipulate them. He didn't just say words good and make them change their minds, he set things up so they wouldn't really have a choice (I.E: Selling his soul to the three lords of Hell so that if any of them were to actually claim it they'd be honor-bound to go to war, which none of them wanted). He can't just go "HEY DON'T FIGHT ME DON'T FIGHT ME" and have it be much more effective than if a normal person said it.
I'd like to respond to this part by saying that I know and agree to all of this
I just personally think specifically Constantine can get the effect of "throwing SI at the opponent and gg" because (again, specifically) his SI is absurdly good and the guy he's facing is a moron (I quote once more:
Gifted, though lacks common sense
).

It's not like, idk, Poison Manip, that if you throw at someone who doesn't resist, it's over, and I haven't implied nor argued such, is just how good is Constantines's SI and how much the other guy is (as far as I can get from the profile) susceptible to it.

Hope i made myself understandable now, apologize for any confusion and would like any input if possible
 
I'd like to respond to this part by saying that I know and agree to all of this
I just personally think specifically Constantine can get the effect of "throwing SI at the opponent and gg" because (again, specifically) his SI is absurdly good and the guy he's facing is a moron (I quote once more:
I don't know about this specific opponent, he does seem like an idiot, but trust me as the guy that made the profile, that against a reasonably motivated opponent without much additional context he cannot. His talents lie in being really good at planning, hot reading, long-time manipulation and things like that, he can't just like, say something and have it be incredibly hyper-convincing just by the virtue of the fact that he knows how to say it.
Hope i made myself understandable now, apologize for any confusion and would like any input if possible
Sure, dunno the other guy but I'll keep following the thread.
 
I don't know about this specific opponent, he does seem like an idiot, but trust me as the guy that made the profile, that against a reasonably motivated opponent without much additional context he cannot. His talents lie in being really good at planning, hot reading, long-time manipulation and things like that, he can't just like, say something and have it be incredibly hyper-convincing just by the virtue of the fact that he knows how to say it.

Sure, dunno the other guy but I'll keep following the thread.
I also dunno him, seems like there'll be nobody who knows coming here that much, and fortunately not only his intelligence gives (at least to me) the sensation Constantine can counter this guy
Weaknesses: His Plot armor makes his yandere love interest kill him, is canonically affected by Plot-Induced Stupidity, has the chronic Kuso disease which makes: everything he touches explode if nervous (with the exception of main characters), irrational and arrogant behavior and diarrhea
 
I will have to suspend the status of this match as a Battle for 9-C because I just noticed that all of Constantine stats are 10-B.
I screwed up on this sense but would be cool to get another w in his profile, no? So if anybody has interest still, on that, let's go
 
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